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1 hour ago, SPuDS said:

I have a friend who swears up and down that Trump is the complete cause of the economy being on such a rise these last 2 years in the states... yet completely ignores the fact it was essentially on the same path  when Obama was there.   Trump supporters are funny, they refuse to verify trumps comments and take them as the word of god. 

There are different reasons for Trump fans.

One of them I've seen, is simply that he's seen as sticking it to the liberal elites, East and West coast editions,  (They hate California and really hate Hollywood,) , and the new (phoney) enemy, the media.

(I used to listen to American talk radio at night. pretty much one hundred percent right wing, usually of the Limbaugh variety. Mark Levin, Cunningham, Hannity, now Red eye radio.)

Some others as well, fear, distrust and dislike of/for  anyone different, would be one. Others, just outright racism.

Anti science is another. Thinking education is unimportant.

stuff like that.

They are a dangerous section of any society. 

article about trump withdrawing from NAFTA (which Harper said was going to happen.

https://texasceomagazine.com/departments/happens-nafta-goes-away/

Quote

 

 Some 380,000 jobs in Texas depend on trade with Mexico and over two million jobs are trade-related In 2015, Mexico absorbed $93 billion in exports from Texas, and $27 billion from second-ranked California. The Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas estimated that NAFTA accounts for approximately a quarter of Texas’ six-fold increase in exports to Mexico since 1994.

Greater diversification and stronger NAFTA integration has benefitted Texas in another crucial way: its economy is no longer so dependent on oil prices. Despite some political rhetoric, executives, officials and experts agree that the good has far outweighed the bad for the United States — and especially for Texas.

 

Not sure they'll like Trump so much in Texas if he goes ahead with this.

Edited by Mark F

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24 minutes ago, Mark F said:

There are different reasons for Trump fans.

One of them I've seen, is simply that he's seen as sticking it to the liberal elites, East and West coast editions,  (They hate California and really hate Hollywood,) , and the new (phoney) enemy, the media.

(I used to listen to American talk radio at night. pretty much one hundred percent right wing, usually of the Limbaugh variety. Mark Levin, Cunningham, Hannity, now Red eye radio.)

Some others as well, fear, distrust and dislike of/for  anyone different, would be one. Others, just outright racism.

Anti science is another. Thinking education is unimportant.

In other words you basically believe that anyone who supports Trump is the scum of the earth.  Oh how nice it must be to only see one side of every issue.

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6 minutes ago, Atomic said:

In other words you basically believe that anyone who supports Trump is the scum of the earth.  Oh how nice it must be to only see one side of every issue.

no, probably there are some normal people in there as well

people tend to support their lifelong party, no matter what. unfortunately.

But there are a lot of racists in the USA. there's no getting around it, Trump is their man. and the Republicans are their party.

so those people... yes they are scum.

Quebecers are smart, they support whichever party gives them the best deal.

Edited by Mark F

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40 minutes ago, Mark F said:

no, probably there are some normal people in there as well

people tend to support their lifelong party, no matter what. unfortunately.

But there are a lot of racists in the USA. there's no getting around it, Trump is their man. and the Republicans are their party.

so those people... yes they are scum.

Quebecers are smart, they support whichever party gives them the best deal.

I think you'd find that so-called normal people outnumber the "racists" by quite a bit.  Unless when you say racist you just mean someone who has held a racist thought in their life... which would probably be almost everyone in North America.

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18 minutes ago, Atomic said:

You're right there are no Democratic racists.

The lack of self-awareness on the left is simply shocking.

I fail to see Richard spencer or david duke tweeting their support for Hillary or Chuck Shumer - I may have missed those tweets though, going through their twitter feeds. I will endevour to make a more conscious effort next time I am perusing David dukes twitter feed. 

 

The indignation on the right is AWESOME! 

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24 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I fail to see Richard spencer or david duke tweeting their support for Hillary or Chuck Shumer - I may have missed those tweets though, going through their twitter feeds. I will endevour to make a more conscious effort next time I am perusing David dukes twitter feed. 

 

The indignation on the right is AWESOME! 

Oh so that means no one who voted Democrat is a racist.  Because you haven't seen any KKK members tweeting about their support of democrats.

Holy ****.

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1 hour ago, Atomic said:

I think you'd find that so-called normal people outnumber the "racists" by quite a bit.  Unless when you say racist you just mean someone who has held a racist thought in their life... which would probably be almost everyone in North America.

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/trump_s_bigoted_base_by_the_numbers.html

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Mark F said:

What's your point?  Yes obviously there are more racists on the Trump side.  I never disputed that.  More disputing @wanna-b-fanboy claim that every racist in USA voted for Trump.

And yeah, just so you know, posting a Slate article means about as much to me as if I posted a Fox News article to you.  Wildly biased.

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This thread is  going to be locked for the weekend.   I am seriously this close to banning all political discussions on this forum.  

I signed up to run a football forum and not deal with these childish antics that this topic brings out in a select few. 

And before you read this and think ... yeah this applies to the “other side”   Left, right ... there are guilty people here on both sides and if you aren’t sure what you are doing that puts you in this group ... shoot me a PM. 

The locking of this thread is a warning.  What happens next is up to the people who regularly post in here. 

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I'm unlocking the thread.  If there is anyone who wants to and thinks they can be impartial in moderating this topic, shoot me a PM, because as is evident in my prior post, I'm more then tired of the shenanigans that has been going on in here for a long time.

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It's pretty sad that the democrats are so rattled about the economy succeeding thus far under Trump that they are forcing this shutdown in an attempt to slow down the economy.

They knew their deal would never be accepted by Trump and it's obvious this was their endgame.  It is childish and is going to potentially end up costing billions of dollars just so the dems can score some political points by implying this is entirely the fault of Trump and the republicans.  They are playing with people's livelihoods.

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23 minutes ago, Atomic said:

It's pretty sad that the democrats are so rattled about the economy succeeding thus far under Trump that they are forcing this shutdown in an attempt to slow down the economy.

They knew their deal would never be accepted by Trump and it's obvious this was their endgame. 
 

Interesting, I never thought of it that way.  What specifics about the situation leads you to believe that they didn't want to deal at all and wanted to force a shutdown?

 

I personally thought it was the Dems trying to leverage the shut down into some big ticket items- because other then the 60/40 to avert a shut down... they are essentially powerless. I think the Dems were just asking for a lot and the Rep didn't want to concede much at all and viola, here we are. 

 

23 minutes ago, Atomic said:

 

It is childish and is going to potentially end up costing billions of dollars just so the dems can score some political points by implying this is entirely the fault of Trump and the republicans.  They are playing with people's livelihoods.

Agreed, it's shitty for the people and their livelihoods- but I think the fault lies with both parties.  

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4 hours ago, Rich said:

I'm unlocking the thread.  If there is anyone who wants to and thinks they can be impartial in moderating this topic, shoot me a PM, because as is evident in my prior post, I'm more then tired of the shenanigans that has been going on in here for a long time.

I thought you were shutting down the thread symbolically due to the government shutting down. ;)

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I don’t think the dems are forcing a shut down due to the health of the economy. Five republicans voted against the deal. 

It’s complicated. 

Trump is on record previously saying any shut down lies at the feet of the president. He has to wear that. 

Trump also publicly declared that he’d sign any bipartisan agreement put in front of him. There was a bipartisan agreement and he was enthusiastic about it. He then changed his mind on the time it took the drafters of the agreement to visit him. 

Speculation is Stephen Miller changed his mind. Miller is, to be kind, a hardline on immigration. To not be kind he’s an out and out racist. 

Further you had GOP leaders saying they don’t even know what Trump wants on an agreement. That would seem to indicate Trump favoured a shutdown. 

Remember it was trump that set a deadline on DACA. And I think we can speculate that his admin doesn’t want the dreamers here. That’s the red line for dems. 

On the flip side, the way the senate works there has to be bipartisanship. So it’s true the dems would not get on board. But since some dems did vote in favour and some republicans voted against I don’t think we can say “dems blocked”.

more accurately the senate as a whole did not come up wirh a suitable agreement. And it rests with Trump who orchestrated this 

If the two big issues on each side are finding a wall vs helping dreamers, isn’t one of those way more important that the other?

 

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What I don't understand is how the politicians have made the budget process so sadly political. This is about funding govt departments & not about forwarding political wish lists. Trump, the Dems,  GOP, the Senate, Congress & both parties all share the blame for this. They're all idiots. 

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On ‎1‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:01 PM, Brandon Blue&Gold said:

C'mon man.  David Clarke?  Really?  If you're trying to make a point use someone slightly less despicable.  Unless you're trolling, then carry on I guess?

No kidding. David Clarke who used his position as Sherriff to bully, antagonize & intimidate others??? Wow. 

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On 1/20/2018 at 10:58 AM, Atomic said:

It's pretty sad that the democrats are so rattled about the economy succeeding thus far under Trump that they are forcing this shutdown in an attempt to slow down the economy.

They knew their deal would never be accepted by Trump and it's obvious this was their endgame.  It is childish and is going to potentially end up costing billions of dollars just so the dems can score some political points by implying this is entirely the fault of Trump and the republicans.  They are playing with people's livelihoods.

There is a process to pass budget bills with a simple 51-vote majority in the Senate.  It's called budget reconciliation.  The Republicans could completely bypass the Dems on this and pass a budget or a CR with zero Democratic votes.

They can't / won't do this for a number of reasons, but the biggest one is that they don't have fifty Republican votes in the senate for the current CR.

Funding the government with short-term continuing resolutions makes the government less able to function -- Lindsay Graham and others in the Senate voted against it because they believe that the unpredictability of funding damages the military, which needs to plan in cycles longer than four weeks.  In the past, we've seen CRs as a result of divided government; the two sides can't get it together to agree on a real budget, so instead of letting the government shut down they just pass a CR that says that the funding stays the same for some short period of time.  However, this time, we are seeing a CR from a unified government.  Why can't the Republicans get it together to pass a real annual budget like they did in the days of yore? 

Another thing to note is that the gov't programs tied to the CR -- DACA and CHIP -- are widely popular in the United States and could easily be passed with large bipartisan majorities if they were brought individually in "clean" bills, and would very likely be signed by Trump.  But the Republicans, who control the entire government, won't do that. Thus, the CR brinksmanship.

Edited by johnzo

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