When do we fire Richie Hall?

[blue_gold_84]

9 minutes ago, Floyd said:

So you mean besides the fact that Hall was on the team to draft Hurl and that Hurl was the first FA signing after he got to Winnipeg...?

Or do you mean the fact that we replaced Bass because he was a 'selfish player' and then penciled in Hurl after four days of training camp?

Not really sure what you're definition of 'near-zero basis' is beyond just 'I don't agree with this so its wrong'...

We'll never know for certain but Occam's Razor seems pretty effective in this case.

If the plan is to stick with Hall this upcoming season, what I do know is Walters had better sign a MLB capable of playing the goddamned position.

[SPuDS]

3 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

We'll never know for certain but Occam's Razor seems pretty effective in this case.

If the plan is to stick with Hall this upcoming season, what I do know is Walters had better sign a MLB capable of playing the goddamned position.

O'shea seemed to sound like he will be more invested into the defense this year.   Does this mean he will mandate a legit MLB?  He was one of Hurl's biggest supporters last year.  Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if Hurl is starting MLB in some packages with the emergence of Santos-knox as a bonafide WIL.   If Leggett is back and healthy, our LBs could be the same as last season.. could be kind of scary for sure.

 

I also don't think O'shea wants our defense to be plastered against the wall week in and week out again so I'd imagine he will eventually come to terms with the fact that Hurl isn't a clone of himself and needs to be put to ST or pasture.   well, a man can dream anyway.

[HardCoreBlue]

3 minutes ago, SPuDS said:

O'shea seemed to sound like he will be more invested into the defense this year.   Does this mean he will mandate a legit MLB?  He was one of Hurl's biggest supporters last year.  Now that I think about it, I wouldn't be surprised if Hurl is starting MLB in some packages with the emergence of Santos-knox as a bonafide WIL.   If Leggett is back and healthy, our LBs could be the same as last season.. could be kind of scary for sure.

 

I also don't think O'shea wants our defense to be plastered against the wall week in and week out again so I'd imagine he will eventually come to terms with the fact that Hurl isn't a clone of himself and needs to be put to ST or pasture.   well, a man can dream anyway.

Steve Morley Tweeted the below. In terms of a qualified  starting national MLB, NOT Special Teams ,please tell me that O'Shea realizes Hurl is no O'Shea? 

Riders would never let Henoc go. Bombers have O'shea Jr in Hurl anyway. Im thinking Kyle goes after some american LB's and dlinemen.

 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, DR. CFL said:

Pat DeMarrco was run out of Wpg as a bad o line coach and has done a good job in Calgary often with a plug and play injured o line.  Give a decent coach decent players. How many DCs would want to play a Hurl?

Well, that was Hall so he wanted to. 

[SpeedFlex27]

7 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Steve Morley Tweeted the below. In terms of a qualified  starting national MLB, NOT Special Teams ,please tell me that O'Shea realizes Hurl is no O'Shea? 

Riders would never let Henoc go. Bombers have O'shea Jr in Hurl anyway. Im thinking Kyle goes after some american LB's and dlinemen.

 

Hurl is O'Shea Jr? He's not even a 5th cousin twice removed when it comes to comparing the talent of O'Shea as a player to Hurl. 

[Floyd]

Yeah Hall's had it pretty rough...  how many DCs could find success with a rag tag crew like Randle, Heath, Leggett, Nevis, Westerman, Okpalaugo...

[SpeedFlex27]

5 hours ago, Brandon said:

Which coaches has this regime kept around that were considered dead wood?

Also maybe the club feels that the issue is with the players/talent and not with the coach and his system?

Brandon, Ritchie Hall is a Deadwood Ol' Boys Coach who will always find work. Put him in the same group as a lot of guys who just rotate thru CFL teams as coaches. It's all about who they are buddies with. Not how good they are. How can anyone say our defense didn't have talent?That's just an excuse for failure. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by SpeedFlex27

[DR. CFL]

Blame Walters, the scouting staff, MOS , or Hall. Part of the issue with playing Hurl is dictated by the ratio. On a team that does not have the ability to start 3 Nationals on the o line, a team that does not have a bona fide   TOP level  a National Receiver ,  has the good fortune of aTOP level National RB  is basically forced to play a sub par National MLB.  So  the buck can be split into quarters and they can all own apiece of it for what it is worth.

[TBURGESS]

What experienced MLB would want to sign in Winnipeg to become simply a 'hole filler in Halls D'?

[Floyd]

1 minute ago, DR. CFL said:

Blame Walters, the scouting staff, MOS , or Hall. Part of the issue with playing Hurl is dictated by the ratio. On a team that does not have the ability to start 3 Nationals on the o line, a team that does not have a bona fide   TOP level  a National Receiver ,  has the good fortune of aTOP level National RB  is basically forced to play a sub par National MLB.  So  the buck can be split into quarters and they can all own apiece of it for what it is worth.

Except MOS plays 8 NIs fairly regularly...

[SpeedFlex27]

6 minutes ago, Floyd said:

Yeah Hall's had it pretty rough...  how many DCs could find success with a rag tag crew like Randle, Heath, Leggett, Nevis, Westerman, Okpalaugo...

Yep, blame the talent. Not Hall. Obviously those guys just aren't good enough. 

[Floyd]

1 minute ago, TBURGESS said:

What experienced MLB would want to sign in Winnipeg to become simply a 'hole filler in Halls D'?

Some of my favourite memories involve hole filling.

[DR. CFL]

MOS can play  as many Nationals as he likes. I’m all about waving the flag....the key is how many are TOP level National players?  Hurl certainly isn’t, and nor are the a National receivers.

[17to85]

There is definitely lots of blame to go around. The simple fact is that Kyle Walters likes to spend his high draft picks on the offensive and defensive line and we've got at this point 3 maybe 4 starters out of those positions. Either those high draft picks gotta start playing and get us up to 4 or 5 guys between the two or they gotta start making picks at other positions with the high picks. 

[blue_gold_84]

7 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

There is definitely lots of blame to go around. The simple fact is that Kyle Walters likes to spend his high draft picks on the offensive and defensive line and we've got at this point 3 maybe 4 starters out of those positions. Either those high draft picks gotta start playing and get us up to 4 or 5 guys between the two or they gotta start making picks at other positions with the high picks. 

I'm not sure I follow. Are you blaming Walters for his draft selections...?

[SPuDS]

13 minutes ago, blue_gold_84 said:

I'm not sure I follow. Are you blaming Walters for his draft selections...?

I'm thinking hes saying the picks gotta start producing, IE evolving into starters to benefit the ratio or we need to start drafting non-linemen to fill out these spots.   I think Wolitosky will become of of those "other" picks sooner then later, Coates didn't look out of place for a random fill in canadian receiver..  maybe we gamble on an LB or DB who has potential to become a starter in this draft..

 

more likely we keep stocking the line cuppboards though and find other options via the supplimental draft or under rocks somewhere, lol. 

[Brandon]

I am confused as we have ball hawks and we also had a great d-line last season...   why so many yards given up?  

[DR. CFL]

There always appeared to be too many missed tackles in most games.

[Atomic]

Missed tackles and those big breakdowns where a receiver has no defender anywhere near him.  Way too many of those plays.

[Bigblue204]

10 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Missed tackles and those big breakdowns where a receiver has no defender anywhere near him.  Way too many of those plays.

Yup, and this is where it gets confusing. Cause those things aren't really scheme related...kinda. I mean if the DB's are constantly missing assignments,  they should maybe look at making changes to those assignments. However, had they done their job and not missed the assignments, maybe they could have been a lock down D. So this is where it's hard to tell if it's the players or the scheme. Likely a little of both. Maybe they made the changes, maybe they didn't. No one outside of the locker rooms knows. But the missed assignments  happened all year without fail

. And missed tackles are just bad execution for the most part.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Bigblue204
checking to see if it makes sense...does it? **** football is complicated

[Floyd]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

I am confused as we have ball hawks and we also had a great d-line last season...   why so many yards given up?  

Pretty basic...  you have a scheme that is based on containing YAC and creating turnovers

But then Hall is forced to compensate for Hurl's lack of speed by playing him as a hybrid MLB/DL

Because of that Loffler plays very shallow  - almost as a hybrid MLB/S - leaving big plays over the top if the QB has time

We didn't give up big plays last year because we had an MLB - the problem last year was the timid DL schemes 

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Brandon said:

I am confused as we have ball hawks and we also had a great d-line last season...   why so many yards given up?  

That's Hall & his defensive schemes. We more than have the talent except at MLB. Again, that's on Hall yet he stays. I see other CFL teams making off season coaching moves & we stand pat which is concerning.

[BigBlue]

Was/Is Stubler too old at age 68 to be a viable OC? 

[DR. CFL]

Still DC hasn’t missed a tackle yet......Loffler does play close to the box......he would be a better MLB then the name we din’t Speak....or speak too often.

[Floyd]

9 minutes ago, BigBlue said:

Was/Is Stubler too old at age 68 to be a viable OC? 

I feel like this post has that David Attenborough feel where everything is slow motion before the lions pounce on the gazelle.