Wideleft Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 21 minutes ago, Atomic said: It's not relevant. When Basslicker comes in and talks about the concerns of false accusations, he is accused of not actually caring about that, but instead he's trying to make excuses for Republicans. It's the exact same thing here. You claim it's related, but really it's just a reason to be able to bring race into the discussion. On the left, your argument gets stronger the more -ist and -phobic words you can toss at the other side. Sexist wasn't getting the results you wanted, so you added racist. That's all this is. It would be naive to suggest that race plays no part in how the accuser or accused is viewed, judged and punished by the police, public , media and courts. Same goes for social standing. Racial considerations make this topic even more complicated, not only as accusations but at the prosecutorial stage as well. Corey Batey (a black college athlete) and Brock Turner (a white college athlete) were both convicted on felony counts of rape. Batey got a minimum of 15 years in prison. Turner got a 6 month sentence with a possibility of 3 monthsfor good behavior. He never even set foot in a prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedFlex27 Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 5 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said: 1) what makes you so concerned about this now? 2) what does it have to do with the topic of the Hollywood scandal? 3) what has changed to suddenly make false allegations rampant and damaging as opposed to pre-Harvey? 4) regardless of veracity of hard numbers to support or dispute, the stances of false allegations are comparably low. Shouldn’t we focus on ending the lousy behaviour? This will filter down to mainstream society. If you're not concerned about this then I submit that you & others just like to see the headlines. Seeing celebrities go down. Nothing to do with justice but enjoying the proceedings. Kind of like a crowd at a disaster taking it all in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, Wideleft said: It would be naive to suggest that race plays no part in how the accuser or accused is viewed, judged and punished by the police, public , media and courts. Same goes for social standing. Racial considerations make this topic even more complicated, not only as accusations but at the prosecutorial stage as well. Corey Batey (a black college athlete) and Brock Turner (a white college athlete) were both convicted on felony counts of rape. Batey got a minimum of 15 years in prison. Turner got a 6 month sentence with a possibility of 3 monthsfor good behavior. He never even set foot in a prison. It is incredibly disingenuous to suggest the only difference between the two cases is race. It is reprehensible that Brock Turner got such a light sentence. But the cases were not the same. Not by a long shot. But I do agree with you that it would be naive to suggest that race plays no part. It is playing a part right now, allowing you to view Brock Turner as a villain while you paint Corey Batey as a victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wideleft Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 34 minutes ago, Atomic said: It is incredibly disingenuous to suggest the only difference between the two cases is race. It is reprehensible that Brock Turner got such a light sentence. But the cases were not the same. Not by a long shot. But I do agree with you that it would be naive to suggest that race plays no part. It is playing a part right now, allowing you to view Brock Turner as a villain while you paint Corey Batey as a victim. Please show where I suggested Corey Batey was a victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 28 minutes ago, Wideleft said: Please show where I suggested Corey Batey was a victim. Are you not suggesting that he is a victim of institutional racism? That's what I got from your post. Otherwise why bring it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wideleft Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 That would mean I think that they both deserve 3 month sentences. Which I don't. I would argue that Batey's sentence was just and therefore he was not a victim. Turner on the other hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 22 minutes ago, Wideleft said: That would mean I think that they both deserve 3 month sentences. Which I don't. I would argue that Batey's sentence was just and therefore he was not a victim. Turner on the other hand.... Then how does Batey factor in at all? Brock Turner receiving a ridiculously lenient sentence stands alone on its own merit. There are many differences between the two cases, and race is just one of them. In fact, race played more heavily into the Batey case because some would argue it was a hate crime to gang rape a white girl and then piss on her face while telling her "This is for 400 years of slavery." Again, I'm just not sure what point you were attempting to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wideleft Posted December 9, 2017 Report Share Posted December 9, 2017 3 months vs 15 years both for felony rape. Don't know what I need to further explain. Perhaps that the privileges that come with being white are also extended to being male? I don't understand why people are so afraid of behaving respectfully around women when they have likely been respectful to their mothers, grandmother's, sisters etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate007 Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 On 11/30/2017 at 7:17 PM, nate007 said: Nicholas Cage wouldn't surprise me... Googles "Nicholas Cage harassment"... Turns out he was arrested for domestic abuse in 2011. Okay, my real guess is Alton Brown, or maybe Guy Fieri. One of those two. https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/batali-steps-down-after-sexual-misconduct-allegations-463400863.html Well, I wasn't too far off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Aww crud Batali was a cool dude, he was funny on his recent interview with First we Feast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wideleft Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/salma-hayek-pens-op-ed-detailing-harrowing-weinstein-demands-frida-1067206 If you haven't used up your 3 free articles for the month, you can read it here: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/13/opinion/contributors/salma-hayek-harvey-weinstein.html Edited December 13, 2017 by Wideleft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnzo Posted December 13, 2017 Report Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) re: false allegations, they do exist. Here is a great example of the difference between a false accusation and a credible accusation. https://www.thedailybeast.com/mike-cernovich-chuck-johnson-alt-right-hyped-anti-schumer-forgery-that-plagiarized-conyers-complaint Edited December 13, 2017 by johnzo Wideleft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iHeart Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 http://tvline.com/2017/12/13/tavis-smiley-suspended-pbs-talk-show-sexual-misconduct-abuse/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iHeart Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 http://tvline.com/2017/12/13/the-great-american-baking-show-johnny-iuzzini-fired-season-3/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iHeart Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) holy crap the Supersize me guy too? http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/13/morgan-spurlock-sexual-harassment-admits-problem-rape/ though no one has accused him of anything but at least he's saying something before anyone else can Edited December 14, 2017 by iHeart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wideleft Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 20 hours ago, johnzo said: re: false allegations, they do exist. Here is a great example of the difference between a false accusation and a credible accusation. https://www.thedailybeast.com/mike-cernovich-chuck-johnson-alt-right-hyped-anti-schumer-forgery-that-plagiarized-conyers-complaint It would be good for society if Cernovich got the max 10 years in prison. He can take James O' Keefe with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 21 hours ago, johnzo said: re: false allegations, they do exist. Here is a great example of the difference between a false accusation and a credible accusation. https://www.thedailybeast.com/mike-cernovich-chuck-johnson-alt-right-hyped-anti-schumer-forgery-that-plagiarized-conyers-complaint Yes. Here is another great example: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/13/business/media/rape-uva-rolling-stone-frat.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 Great read about Salma Hayek, but yikes the guy sounds like a monster. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnzo Posted December 14, 2017 Report Share Posted December 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Atomic said: Yes. Here is another great example: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/13/business/media/rape-uva-rolling-stone-frat.html yup, absolutely, and Rolling Stone deserves all the heat it got for the story. This is a super real problem and messy reporting about it really hurts efforts to do something about it. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted December 15, 2017 Report Share Posted December 15, 2017 21 hours ago, johnzo said: yup, absolutely, and Rolling Stone deserves all the heat it got for the story. This is a super real problem and messy reporting about it really hurts efforts to do something about it. And that's the ugly part of these accusations hitting the public arena before they go before the courts. Because even though the overwhelming majority are likely true, there will be the occasional revelation of a false accusation too. And certain people will latch onto those ones and use them to discredit real accusations. SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iHeart Posted December 16, 2017 Report Share Posted December 16, 2017 http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/15/carolina-panthers-investigating-owner-alleged-misconduct/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iHeart Posted December 16, 2017 Report Share Posted December 16, 2017 http://www.tmz.com/2017/12/15/gene-simmons-sued-for-sexual-assault-interview/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unknown Poster Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 He’s getting blowback for this. I appreciate he’s trying to make a nuanced argument and he’s right to an extent but doesn’t seem to really get it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCoreBlue Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 You just know that Donald J Trump and his family members will take all the credit for putting more awareness on this issue. The Unknown Poster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOBomberFan Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/12/17/gene-simmons-kiss-faces-lawsuit-over-groping-misconduct-allegations.html Oh no... Gene Simmons' impeccable reputation shall forever be tarnished SPuDS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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