Atomic Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 First time I've ever seen anything like this attempted. Overall ranking is subjective but interesting look at the numbers. Credit to Mark Fulton @FenderGuy69 on Twitter. The numbering can be a little confusing, keep in mind it is rankings throughout. So for example Montreal doesn't have 9 illegal blocks, they have the most illegal blocks and therefore rank 9th. Tracker, Mark F, bluto and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I guess the aspect that bothers me the most is the 2nd & less than 3 yards category, in which we rank 8th. Regardless of our low ranking though, I really appreciate the attempt of someone compiling the numbers like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wookie Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 so how i s cal in first , when they rank last on the o line, crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC Khari Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 so how i s cal in first , when they rank last on the o line, crazy See, Mack was right, who cares about an Oline LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehedra Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Calgary is in first by making teams pay for mistakes and almost every Calgary game there have been major mistakes by teams to allow them to just squek by with a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlue Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 The 3rd and 1 rankings can be misleading as well. Just because Calgary is 7th, doesn't mean they have failed at it, it can also mean they just haven't had as many opportunities to convert them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 The 3rd and 1 rankings can be misleading as well. Just because Calgary is 7th, doesn't mean they have failed at it, it can also mean they just haven't had as many opportunities to convert them. I was wondering if those numbers were based on the gross number of successful conversions, or % of successful conversions. Using percentages for a number of those categories would make more sense than the raw numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17to85 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Numbers need more context and are they weighted in certain areas that are more important? They are interesting numbers but given the information lacking with regards to them I don't know that we can put an effective ranking of offensive lines. As raw numbers they're interesting, as a ranking I need to know more about the logic in the rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Calgary 9th? That's just not right. They've lost 3 starters on that OL & have plugged in backups that are doing very well. In some cases backups to the backups as even the backups got hurt. At one time or another 4 of the 5 starters have been out of the lineup this season. Only Spencer Wilson has started every game this year. Considering everything, that OL is playing some very good football. Numbers & stats don't mean everything. Remember how members here mocked Pat Del Monaco as a shitty coach & blamed him for everything that was wrong with the Bombers OL 2 years ago? Well he's done a great job since coming to Calgary having to deal with constant injuries shuffling guys in & out of the lineup because of it the past 2 seasons. Turns out he wasn't the problem. A lack of talent & depth was. Things haven't changed much in 2 years & now it's Bob Wylie who looks like he can't coach anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Calgary 9th? That's just not right. They've lost 3 starters on that OL & have plugged in backups that are doing very well. In some cases backups to the backups as even the backups got hurt. At one time or another 4 of the 5 starters have been out of the lineup this season. Only Spencer Wilson has started every game this year. Considering everything, that OL is playing some very good football. Numbers & stats don't mean everything. Remember how members here mocked Pat Del Monaco as a shitty coach & blamed him for everything that was wrong with the Bombers OL 2 years ago? Well he's done a great job since coming to Calgary having to deal with constant injuries shuffling guys in & out of the lineup because of it the past 2 seasons. Turns out he wasn't the problem. A lack of talent & depth was. Things haven't changed much in 2 years & now it's Bob Wylie who looks like he can't coach anymore. This is kind of an argument for ranking calgary low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted August 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Numbers need more context and are they weighted in certain areas that are more important? They are interesting numbers but given the information lacking with regards to them I don't know that we can put an effective ranking of offensive lines. As raw numbers they're interesting, as a ranking I need to know more about the logic in the rankings. I believe it's just an average of all the rankings, which means it is basically meaningless. The overall ranking isn't that interesting to me, but the rankings in each category are indisputable as they are based on hard data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atomic Posted August 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 The 3rd and 1 rankings can be misleading as well. Just because Calgary is 7th, doesn't mean they have failed at it, it can also mean they just haven't had as many opportunities to convert them. My question would be whether this is based on total number of conversions or conversion percentage. I'm not sure of the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Calgary 9th? That's just not right. They've lost 3 starters on that OL & have plugged in backups that are doing very well. In some cases backups to the backups as even the backups got hurt. At one time or another 4 of the 5 starters have been out of the lineup this season. Only Spencer Wilson has started every game this year. Considering everything, that OL is playing some very good football. Numbers & stats don't mean everything. Remember how members here mocked Pat Del Monaco as a shitty coach & blamed him for everything that was wrong with the Bombers OL 2 years ago? Well he's done a great job since coming to Calgary having to deal with constant injuries shuffling guys in & out of the lineup because of it the past 2 seasons. Turns out he wasn't the problem. A lack of talent & depth was. Things haven't changed much in 2 years & now it's Bob Wylie who looks like he can't coach anymore. This is kind of an argument for ranking calgary low The Stamps OL shouldn't be ranked 9th. BLM would be sacked incessantly & beaten to a pulp but he's not. The team wouldn't be 6-2 if the line wasn't doing a good job. Thing of it is, only Stanley Bryant the right tackle won't be coming back this season but the rest of the injured starters will be back come playoff time. So, they'll be good to go again. And... those backups who played & are playing well will have a whole bunch of experience & will be ready to be called on again if needed. Sad part is, some of our starters would have a hard time making the Stamps playing roster. The Stamps OL was decimated the past 2 years with the departure of Jon Gott, Stanley Bryant & Brent Jones. Now the injuries this season to Edwin Harrison, Dan Federkeil, Shane Bergman & Brander Craighead who were all starters. Guys like Brad Erdos, John Estes, Gary Williams & even Paul Swiston have stepped in & played well. Considering this was not even close to the OL the Stamps had starting the season they've done a very good job. Depth & talent has got the Stamps by. Why the hell don't we have that? The Stamps basically rebuilt their O Line since the start of this season. Why is it taking half a decade & counting to rebuild ours?? I can tell you why. The Stamps have the best personnel guy in the CFL who we fired in John Murphy. He knows the CIS cold as well as every free agent out there. He has contacts everywhere & he uses them. That's why. It's amazing the talent he brings in. We had him & now he's in Calgary helping to make them a championship team. Brandon Blue&Gold and rebusrankin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlue Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 The 3rd and 1 rankings can be misleading as well. Just because Calgary is 7th, doesn't mean they have failed at it, it can also mean they just haven't had as many opportunities to convert them. My question would be whether this is based on total number of conversions or conversion percentage. I'm not sure of the answer. Saw this: ... There is just one CFL offence that has converted all of its third and one attempts in 2015. The Ottawa REDBLACKS are perfect, going five for five. If you think going for it is a sign of confidence in your offensive line, Tom Higgins certainly had that in Montreal. The recently fired head coach gambled 17 times - far and away more than the head coaches of the four teams tied for second with eight - and saw his team convert twelve of them, for a success rate of 71 per cent.... Looks like it's based off conversion % with Ottawa being #1 in that category. http://www.cfl.ca/article/landry-teams-struggling-on-third-and-short-situations Atomic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnzo Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 These are super interesting but they seem off. Want to see more about the methodology. Also, Calgary at 8th in yards per rush doesn't seem right -- my numbers have them at 5th after all week 9 games. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jP_cypt8ZfpOxDRSNNkYYBG_Cfl3IHJ-EWysW5X1r7c/edit#gid=0. Though the margin between 5 and 8 is super tight -- just 1/10 of a yard. Maybe Mark's numbers are for an earlier week. Good lord, Saskatchewan is great at running the ball this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I guess the aspect that bothers me the most is the 2nd & less than 3 yards category, in which we rank 8th. Regardless of our low ranking though, I really appreciate the attempt of someone compiling the numbers like this. Don't sweat it, we'll get it on the next play. We rank 2nd in 3rd and short. bearpants 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floyd Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Calgary 9th? That's just not right. They've lost 3 starters on that OL & have plugged in backups that are doing very well. In some cases backups to the backups as even the backups got hurt. At one time or another 4 of the 5 starters have been out of the lineup this season. Only Spencer Wilson has started every game this year. Considering everything, that OL is playing some very good football. Numbers & stats don't mean everything. Remember how members here mocked Pat Del Monaco as a shitty coach & blamed him for everything that was wrong with the Bombers OL 2 years ago? Well he's done a great job since coming to Calgary having to deal with constant injuries shuffling guys in & out of the lineup because of it the past 2 seasons. Turns out he wasn't the problem. A lack of talent & depth was. Things haven't changed much in 2 years & now it's Bob Wylie who looks like he can't coach anymore. This is kind of an argument for ranking calgary low The Stamps OL shouldn't be ranked 9th. BLM would be sacked incessantly & beaten to a pulp but he's not. The team wouldn't be 6-2 if the line wasn't doing a good job. Thing of it is, only Stanley Bryant the right tackle won't be coming back this season but the rest of the injured starters will be back come playoff time. So, they'll be good to go again. And... those backups who played & are playing well will have a whole bunch of experience & will be ready to be called on again if needed. Sad part is, some of our starters would have a hard time making the Stamps playing roster. The Stamps OL was decimated the past 2 years with the departure of Jon Gott, Stanley Bryant & Brent Jones. Now the injuries this season to Edwin Harrison, Dan Federkeil, Shane Bergman & Brander Craighead who were all starters. Guys like Brad Erdos, John Estes, Gary Williams & even Paul Swiston have stepped in & played well. Considering this was not even close to the OL the Stamps had starting the season they've done a very good job. Depth & talent has got the Stamps by. Why the hell don't we have that? The Stamps basically rebuilt their O Line since the start of this season. Why is it taking half a decade & counting to rebuild ours?? I can tell you why. The Stamps have the best personnel guy in the CFL who we fired in John Murphy. He knows the CIS cold as well as every free agent out there. He has contacts everywhere & he uses them. That's why. It's amazing the talent he brings in. We had him & now he's in Calgary helping to make them a championship team. Don't remind me about letting John Murphy walk... All I'm saying is that I can see how Calgary ranks low based on stats with their injuries. Pretty sure 9th will change pretty soon... like after this week. Atomic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbbfan Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 thats a really interesting spread sheet. The 2nd column, 2nd and short conversions is really the killer of our offense atm. Im not sure how much of that is OL and how much is play calling. Not to mention a couple blow outs that leave us chucking instead of establishing drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Calgary 9th? That's just not right. They've lost 3 starters on that OL & have plugged in backups that are doing very well. In some cases backups to the backups as even the backups got hurt. At one time or another 4 of the 5 starters have been out of the lineup this season. Only Spencer Wilson has started every game this year. Considering everything, that OL is playing some very good football. Numbers & stats don't mean everything. Remember how members here mocked Pat Del Monaco as a shitty coach & blamed him for everything that was wrong with the Bombers OL 2 years ago? Well he's done a great job since coming to Calgary having to deal with constant injuries shuffling guys in & out of the lineup because of it the past 2 seasons. Turns out he wasn't the problem. A lack of talent & depth was. Things haven't changed much in 2 years & now it's Bob Wylie who looks like he can't coach anymore. This is kind of an argument for ranking calgary low The Stamps OL shouldn't be ranked 9th. BLM would be sacked incessantly & beaten to a pulp but he's not. The team wouldn't be 6-2 if the line wasn't doing a good job. Thing of it is, only Stanley Bryant the right tackle won't be coming back this season but the rest of the injured starters will be back come playoff time. So, they'll be good to go again. And... those backups who played & are playing well will have a whole bunch of experience & will be ready to be called on again if needed. Sad part is, some of our starters would have a hard time making the Stamps playing roster. The Stamps OL was decimated the past 2 years with the departure of Jon Gott, Stanley Bryant & Brent Jones. Now the injuries this season to Edwin Harrison, Dan Federkeil, Shane Bergman & Brander Craighead who were all starters. Guys like Brad Erdos, John Estes, Gary Williams & even Paul Swiston have stepped in & played well. Considering this was not even close to the OL the Stamps had starting the season they've done a very good job. Depth & talent has got the Stamps by. Why the hell don't we have that? The Stamps basically rebuilt their O Line since the start of this season. Why is it taking half a decade & counting to rebuild ours?? I can tell you why. The Stamps have the best personnel guy in the CFL who we fired in John Murphy. He knows the CIS cold as well as every free agent out there. He has contacts everywhere & he uses them. That's why. It's amazing the talent he brings in. We had him & now he's in Calgary helping to make them a championship team. Don't remind me about letting John Murphy walk... All I'm saying is that I can see how Calgary ranks low based on stats with their injuries. Pretty sure 9th will change pretty soon... like after this week. Pretty sad seeing his continuing body of work in Calgary when he could have been here doing the same thing. Everybody says Huff drafts great. He doesn't. It's all Murphy. He plans the CIS draft, he brings in free agents, he plans the free agent camps in the off season & he negotiates contracts. He's a GM in waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearpants Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Don't remind me about letting John Murphy walk... All I'm saying is that I can see how Calgary ranks low based on stats with their injuries. Pretty sure 9th will change pretty soon... like after this week. Pretty sad seeing his continuing body of work in Calgary when he could have been here doing the same thing. Everybody says Huff drafts great. He doesn't. It's all Murphy. He plans the CIS draft, he brings in free agents, he plans the free agent camps in the off season & he negotiates contracts. He's a GM in waiting. I thought he was ready in 2013... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueandgoldguy Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Calgary 9th? That's just not right. They've lost 3 starters on that OL & have plugged in backups that are doing very well. In some cases backups to the backups as even the backups got hurt. At one time or another 4 of the 5 starters have been out of the lineup this season. Only Spencer Wilson has started every game this year. Considering everything, that OL is playing some very good football. Numbers & stats don't mean everything. Remember how members here mocked Pat Del Monaco as a shitty coach & blamed him for everything that was wrong with the Bombers OL 2 years ago? Well he's done a great job since coming to Calgary having to deal with constant injuries shuffling guys in & out of the lineup because of it the past 2 seasons. Turns out he wasn't the problem. A lack of talent & depth was. Things haven't changed much in 2 years & now it's Bob Wylie who looks like he can't coach anymore. This is kind of an argument for ranking calgary low The Stamps OL shouldn't be ranked 9th. BLM would be sacked incessantly & beaten to a pulp but he's not. The team wouldn't be 6-2 if the line wasn't doing a good job. Thing of it is, only Stanley Bryant the right tackle won't be coming back this season but the rest of the injured starters will be back come playoff time. So, they'll be good to go again. And... those backups who played & are playing well will have a whole bunch of experience & will be ready to be called on again if needed. Sad part is, some of our starters would have a hard time making the Stamps playing roster. The Stamps OL was decimated the past 2 years with the departure of Jon Gott, Stanley Bryant & Brent Jones. Now the injuries this season to Edwin Harrison, Dan Federkeil, Shane Bergman & Brander Craighead who were all starters. Guys like Brad Erdos, John Estes, Gary Williams & even Paul Swiston have stepped in & played well. Considering this was not even close to the OL the Stamps had starting the season they've done a very good job. Depth & talent has got the Stamps by. Why the hell don't we have that? The Stamps basically rebuilt their O Line since the start of this season. Why is it taking half a decade & counting to rebuild ours?? I can tell you why. The Stamps have the best personnel guy in the CFL who we fired in John Murphy. He knows the CIS cold as well as every free agent out there. He has contacts everywhere & he uses them. That's why. It's amazing the talent he brings in. We had him & now he's in Calgary helping to make them a championship team. John Murphy has been rumoured to become a GM in the CFL for a few years now. I wonder which team gives him that opportunity and when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbrg Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 These are super interesting but they seem off. Want to see more about the methodology. Also, Calgary at 8th in yards per rush doesn't seem right -- my numbers have them at 5th after all week 9 games. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jP_cypt8ZfpOxDRSNNkYYBG_Cfl3IHJ-EWysW5X1r7c/edit#gid=0. Though the margin between 5 and 8 is super tight -- just 1/10 of a yard. Maybe Mark's numbers are for an earlier week. Good lord, Saskatchewan is great at running the ball this year. It's an attempt at making it objective and quantifiable, but the results make me think the methodology doesn't pass the sniff test. Perhaps he's giving each category equal weight? Surrendering a sack on second down and taking an IP penalty on first down shouldn't have equal weighting. Are sacks just the total or are they the percentage of dropbacks? It's an interesting exercise. If a person had time, there would be a way of getting a pretty solid ranking using this framework, but you'd have to be willing to look at every play from every game to do it. Add a category like pressures. Subtract out the 3rd and 1's from the rushing average. Give sacks a value of at least 15%, while some of this penalty categories should not have more than 5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iso_55 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Calgary 9th? That's just not right. They've lost 3 starters on that OL & have plugged in backups that are doing very well. In some cases backups to the backups as even the backups got hurt. At one time or another 4 of the 5 starters have been out of the lineup this season. Only Spencer Wilson has started every game this year. Considering everything, that OL is playing some very good football. Numbers & stats don't mean everything. Remember how members here mocked Pat Del Monaco as a shitty coach & blamed him for everything that was wrong with the Bombers OL 2 years ago? Well he's done a great job since coming to Calgary having to deal with constant injuries shuffling guys in & out of the lineup because of it the past 2 seasons. Turns out he wasn't the problem. A lack of talent & depth was. Things haven't changed much in 2 years & now it's Bob Wylie who looks like he can't coach anymore. This is kind of an argument for ranking calgary low The Stamps OL shouldn't be ranked 9th. BLM would be sacked incessantly & beaten to a pulp but he's not. The team wouldn't be 6-2 if the line wasn't doing a good job. Thing of it is, only Stanley Bryant the right tackle won't be coming back this season but the rest of the injured starters will be back come playoff time. So, they'll be good to go again. And... those backups who played & are playing well will have a whole bunch of experience & will be ready to be called on again if needed. Sad part is, some of our starters would have a hard time making the Stamps playing roster. The Stamps OL was decimated the past 2 years with the departure of Jon Gott, Stanley Bryant & Brent Jones. Now the injuries this season to Edwin Harrison, Dan Federkeil, Shane Bergman & Brander Craighead who were all starters. Guys like Brad Erdos, John Estes, Gary Williams & even Paul Swiston have stepped in & played well. Considering this was not even close to the OL the Stamps had starting the season they've done a very good job. Depth & talent has got the Stamps by. Why the hell don't we have that? The Stamps basically rebuilt their O Line since the start of this season. Why is it taking half a decade & counting to rebuild ours?? I can tell you why. The Stamps have the best personnel guy in the CFL who we fired in John Murphy. He knows the CIS cold as well as every free agent out there. He has contacts everywhere & he uses them. That's why. It's amazing the talent he brings in. We had him & now he's in Calgary helping to make them a championship team. John Murphy has been rumoured to become a GM in the CFL for a few years now. I wonder which team gives him that opportunity and when? I'd love the guy here but I know it won't happen. In my second post quoted, I said the Stamps lost Stanley Bryant for the year. My mistake as I meant Edwin Harrison. Bryant is of course, a Blue Bomber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuranBoldenRules Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Hurries and QB hits are just as important as sacks. I'd imagine if you quantified the number of times that the quarterback was hurried along with outright sacks, Edmonton and BC would slide down, Toronto and Calgary would move up. Atomic, iso_55 and wbbfan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Should they not be giving big props for "quarterback mangles"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now