Wrestling

[JCon]

Keep in mind, I have not followed wrestling in years but I doubt the formula has changed...

 

Why do you need Rousey in the title match? She could get 'screwed' out the Rumble win setting her up to fight someone else. She's the draw, no? So you can sell PPVs without her in the title match? That's the McMahon way.

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, JCon said:

Keep in mind, I have not followed wrestling in years but I doubt the formula has changed...

 

Why do you need Rousey in the title match? She could get 'screwed' out the Rumble win setting her up to fight someone else. She's the draw, no? So you can sell PPVs without her in the title match? That's the McMahon way.

You could.  But the media coverage for Rousey winning the inaugural Women's Rumble and earning a title shot is probably bigger than just her debut in a losing effort.  And having the match be for the title is an easier PR thing too.  And then every pic of Rousey after WM is of her with the huge WWE logo belt.  One of the reasons they wanted Rock to win the title was because they thought he'd carry the belt everywhere.

Its actually a really good heel story of the "legit fighter" coming in to prove WWE fake fighters are pansies.  But they'll position her as the face.  If Charlotte was Hunter and Rousey was anyone from MMA, she'd lose.  Actually they did that exact thing with Brock when he came back and lost to Cena.

Losing a Rumble isnt a big deal but if its me, she comes in and wins, wins, wins, wins, wins, wins, wins...before finally losing.  She can only ever lose for the first time once...she should be built up as a destroyer before then, including winning the Rumble. 

The original plan was a Four Horsewomen (Rousey's fight group) vs Four Horsewomen (unofficial friends group in WWE - Charlotte, Sasha, Baley, Becky) but the other two members of Rouseys team quietly stopped training so that seems like its off the table now.  Which is why we all think Rousey is debuting at the Rumble.

[Atomic]

59 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I know there was speculation of turning Finn heel and reuniting with them.  It might be as simple as them doing a Bullet Club reunion just to mess with fans around Wrestle Kingdom and the now-yearly hopes and prayers of WWE fans that Kenny jumps in time for the Rumble (he wont).  But on paper, it makes sense just to mix up three guys that sort of need something new.

I like them together as heels more than faces though.  Finn as the smaller guy with two big buddies is an easy story for WWE fans to follow.

Finn as a heel would work much better than Gallows and Anderson as faces, IMO.

Apparently Wrestle Kingdom was being advertised in commercial breaks last night, which seems crazy.  I didn't see it but I wasn't watching closely during commercials... it also may have been only in the US.

[The Unknown Poster]

6 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Finn as a heel would work much better than Gallows and Anderson as faces, IMO.

Apparently Wrestle Kingdom was being advertised in commercial breaks last night, which seems crazy.  I didn't see it but I wasn't watching closely during commercials... it also may have been only in the US.

They did really well in the US last year (compared to how New Japan usually does).  With Jericho on the show (and Omega being more of a mainstream name in the US now), it would certainly make sense.  They probably could have aired it on PPV in North America.  They did that a few years ago when Jarrett promoted it did decent.  But they are really pushing their own streaming network.  I believe they launched an English version of the network homepage (one big complaint was that you could sign up in North America but the website was all in Japanese).

They will get a lot of NA subs for this match.

[SpeedFlex27]

Seth Rollins & Jason Jordan tag champs. Why is Jordan being pushed so much? It didn't work for Roman Reigns & it won't work for Jordan. So much for giving the fans what they want. Jordan could break a leg in the ring & it would be cheered. 

[Brandon]

Does Ronda Rousey still have the popularity as she did  2 - 3 years ago?    It seemed to me that after her string of losses she disappeared and the movie roles and everything else has evaporated since then?   

[Atomic]

7 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Seth Rollins & Jason Jordan tag champs. Why is Jordan being pushed so much? It didn't work for Roman Reigns & it won't work for Jordan. So much for giving the fans what they want. Jordan could break a leg in the ring & it would be cheered. 

Because he is damn good in the ring and he is built like a Greek god.

The fans are starting to come around on Roman (Reigns vs Joe was incredible last night) and they'll come around on Jordan too.

It's not like he is being cast as a face right now.  His character, the whiny entitled son, is one that is easy to hate and I'm sure WWE knows this.  They are setting something up.  But 2018 might just be the Year of Jason Jordan.

[The Unknown Poster]

25 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Does Ronda Rousey still have the popularity as she did  2 - 3 years ago?    It seemed to me that after her string of losses she disappeared and the movie roles and everything else has evaporated since then?   

I think so.  Maybe not to the same level but her removal from the public eye has been more her doing than offers drying up.  She's still a huge name.

 

13 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Because he is damn good in the ring and he is built like a Greek god.

The fans are starting to come around on Roman (Reigns vs Joe was incredible last night) and they'll come around on Jordan too.

It's not like he is being cast as a face right now.  His character, the whiny entitled son, is one that is easy to hate and I'm sure WWE knows this.  They are setting something up.  But 2018 might just be the Year of Jason Jordan.

I agree.  Jordan has all the physical tools.  And he shows some decent charisma delivering some poorly scripted promos.  Its no surprise the fans treat him like a heel or that his character acts like he's a hero.  Ambrose is out for awhile so it made the perfect opportunity to slide Jordan in there and have him act like he's a real member of Shield when, to Rollins and Roman, he's just a placeholder.

If they play it right, it could be a great heel turn, one where the heel is justified in everything he does and says as to why he turned, but hated nontheless.  It reminds me of Rocky when he claimed he never turned on the fans, they turned on him.

[SpeedFlex27]

12 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Because he is damn good in the ring and he is built like a Greek god.

The fans are starting to come around on Roman (Reigns vs Joe was incredible last night) and they'll come around on Jordan too.

It's not like he is being cast as a face right now.  His character, the whiny entitled son, is one that is easy to hate and I'm sure WWE knows this.  They are setting something up.  But 2018 might just be the Year of Jason Jordan.

He's being pushed too soon on fans tired of Vince or Hunter doing the same with Reigns. Reigns I can understand just because of his size but he's limited in the ring & fans know that so they boo. Jordan is talented no doubt but again, the push nobody wants to see. Let it happen on its own not because of Vince &/or Hunter. 

[Atomic]

5 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He's being pushed too soon on fans tired of Vince or Hunter doing the same with Reigns. Reigns I can understand just because of his size but he's limited in the ring & fans know that so they boo. Jordan is talented no doubt but again, the push nobody wants to see. Let it happen on its own not because of Vince &/or Hunter. 

No push ever happens "on its own".

[The Unknown Poster]

7 minutes ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

He's being pushed too soon on fans tired of Vince or Hunter doing the same with Reigns. Reigns I can understand just because of his size but he's limited in the ring & fans know that so they boo. Jordan is talented no doubt but again, the push nobody wants to see. Let it happen on its own not because of Vince &/or Hunter. 

Hint: They know this, and its on purpose.

[SpeedFlex27]

11 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Hint: They know this, and its on purpose.

And... ratings will continue to fall. Treat fans like they're stupid & they'll go away. 

[The Unknown Poster]

2 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

And... ratings will continue to fall. Treat fans like they're stupid & they'll go away. 

I think they thought the Jordan angle of being Kurt’s son was going to work. But I truly believe they are now booking it the way we see it. It’s a story. Jordan doesn’t move ratings up or down. It’s just a story. 

[Goalie]

Ratings continue to fall? USA network was the number 1 rated cable network in the US last year or darn near and that's mostly in part to WWE shows. 

Ratings dont really matter as much anymore.. I mean they have a show coming out on Facebook Live!! Ratings are irrelevant to them... USA network is their home and will be until WWE decides they arent which wont be for a long time. Talk about ratings... But their net profits are way up so really... They are doing fine. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Ratings are not irrelevant. But WWE is what makes USA number one and they won’t want to lose that.  

2017 ratings were down from 2016 but not historically so as it was in 2016. And they dropped less than the overall drop across the board for cable 

it would be fair to say wwe stabilized their ratings in 2017.   And I don’t think they would drop much further anyway unless the bottom fell out. There is a minimum number of core fans that will watch no matter how bad it is. 

Record profits on the back of increasing tv rights fees. Which is good. Business is business but that’s more a result of tv rights fee trends than as a result of the quality of WWE programming. They are sill down in key metrics.

but the most key metric is money and they are up.  They have to be really careful with soft ratings and soft house attendance though. It can be an indicator of a future downturn. 

Presuming they get another increase in rights fees next year wirh built in yearly escalators, they will be record profitable for the foreseeable future. In a way that’s bad for creative because they don’t care about week to week trends. And it allows rhem to spend five years on the failed Roman experiment 

Edited January 3, 2018 by The Unknown Poster

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I think they thought the Jordan angle of being Kurt’s son was going to work. But I truly believe they are now booking it the way we see it. It’s a story. Jordan doesn’t move ratings up or down. It’s just a story. 

It's brutal. maybe they can invent a storyline where Jason Jordan dies & then comes back to life as the New Red Rooster or something.

[Taynted_Fayth]

gotta say I'm not really a fan of Auska. Maybe its an asian thing but she's pretty much the female Nakamura in everything for her off-center wobbly movement to her "strong style" power strikes.  I much prefer the title picture staying between natalya and charlotte as they are IMO the best to female wrestlers the WWE has.  I understand giving it to Rousey just cuz of who she is... would make for an interesting mixed tag match down the road between Lesnar/Rousey vs Shinsuke/Auska if they ever wanted this angle

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Taynted_Fayth said:

gotta say I'm not really a fan of Auska. Maybe its an asian thing but she's pretty much the female Nakamura in everything for her off-center wobbly movement to her "strong style" power strikes.  I much prefer the title picture staying between natalya and charlotte as they are IMO the best to female wrestlers the WWE has.  I understand giving it to Rousey just cuz of who she is... would make for an interesting mixed tag match down the road between Lesnar/Rousey vs Shinsuke/Auska if they ever wanted this angle

Wrestling promotions over the years have always made Asian wrestlers out to be a bit wacked. A lot of racial stereotyping has always gone on. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Great break down of Jericho vs Omega by ESPN:

 

[The Unknown Poster]

7 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

Wrestling promotions over the years have always made Asian wrestlers out to be a bit wacked. A lot of racial stereotyping has always gone on. 

Im not sure Asuka and Nak being charismatic and working a "strong style" would be considered stereotypical.  Nak is definitely watered down from his New Japan work to a degree.  Asuka is great.

They could have a roster full of Bobby Roode's but who wants that? 

[Atomic]

56 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Im not sure Asuka and Nak being charismatic and working a "strong style" would be considered stereotypical.  Nak is definitely watered down from his New Japan work to a degree.  Asuka is great.

They could have a roster full of Bobby Roode's but who wants that? 

Me me me!!!

[The Unknown Poster]

Dont forget, tonights the night.  Biggest match of the year anywhere.  Alpha vs Omega - Jericho vs Kenny.

Available live on New Japan World for 999 Yen (about $12 Canadian).  Starts at 2am.  English commentary by Kevin Kelly and Winnipeg's own Don Callis.

Card:

New Japan Rumble (Like the Royale Rumble, sometimes has a surprise, like Haku worked a couple years ago as his kids work there).

Roppongi 3K (Sho and Yoh) (c) vs. The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson) - IWGP Junior Tag Team Championship

Bullet Club (Bad Luck Fale, Tama Tonga and Tanga Loa) (c) vs. Chaos (Beretta, Tomohiro Ishii and Toru Yano) vs. Michael Elgin and War Machine (Hanson and Raymond Rowe) vs. Suzuki-gun (Taichi, Takashi Iizuka and Zack Sabre Jr.) vs. Taguchi Japan (Juice Robinson, Ryusuke Taguchi and Togi Makabe) - Six Man Tag Team Championship

Cody (with Brandi Rhodes) vs. Kota Ibushi   NOTE: This should be excellent.  Ibushi is one of the best in the world.

Killer Elite Squad (Davey Boy Smith Jr. and Lance Archer) (c) vs. Los Ingobernables de Japon (Evil and Sanada) - IWGP Tag Team Championship

Minoru Suzuki (c) vs. Hirooki Goto - Hair Match - OPENWEIGHT Championship

Marty Scurll (c) vs. Hiromu Takahashi vs. Kushida vs. Will Ospreay - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship

NOTE: Scurll and Ospreay are hugely rising stars.  And Takahasho and Kushida are good.  Should be outstanding.

Hiroshi Tanahashi (c) vs. Jay White - IWGP Intercontinental Championship

Kenny Omega(c) vs Chris Jericho - IWGP United States Championship - No DQ

Kazuchika Okada (c) vs. Tetsuya Naito IWGP World Heavyweight Championship

I think Bucks win.  Ibushi wins.  Hmmm...Ill say Los Ingobernables win (side note, Davey Boy Jr works in Winnipeg from time to time, just worked our local Champion Jackie Lee a couple weeks ago actually).   Ospreay wins.  Tanahashi wins (Im a big Tanahashi fan).

I expect Naito to win.  Im torn on Kenny vs Jericho.  If its one and done, Kenny has to win.  If its a series (which I dont believe it is), Jericho should win here.  But certainly makes sense for Kenny to win.

By the way, I just received an email from Kenny.  He's very excited about tonight and says Chris is really pumped to "turn it up bigtime".  I think the feeling is that Kenny will work down to Jericho and it will be more of a smoke and mirrors brawl as opposed to the usual super fast athletic Omega match.  But Kenny says he's looking to "surprise" people.  Should be dynamite!

[The Unknown Poster]

On the subject of ratings, WWE was down 5.1% from 2016.  They solidified to a degree with 4 straight months of gains but ended the year with two straight declines.  2016 had a far larger decline over 2015.  So they've stopped the bleeding.

2.5 million people watched RAW on Christmas so that tells you the "core audience", about the lowest they can possibly go before they begin turning off the fans that will watch anything.  So we can see that they have managed to whittle away their audience over the past few years down to the core plus maybe half a million or so.  And that is definitely concerning.

WWE will say its simply the over-all trend in cable TV and thats some of it.  But its simply not true.  Because numbers go up and down based on creative.  Its the same thing when they bought WCW and suddenly millions of Nitro watchers stopped watching wrestling instead of watching RAW.  Those fans left, never to return.

But...WWE is record profitable and will be for many years to come.  They dont see ratings (or attendance) in the micro sense now.  In years past, a bad rating would get people fired, pushes ended etc.  Now, they see it evens out over time and nothing really matters.  Going from PPV to the Network contributes to this as well because they dont have to "sell" viewers on buying a PPV.  They simply deliver a show to the same fans month in and month out.

There are pics of some TV's recently that were always bullet proof that show half empty hard-cam side of the arena.  WWE's fanbase is being chipped away.

But as long as TV Rights Fees continue to rise and the Network stays steady with slow growth, WWE makes a ton of money and wont care.  There will be a magic number that Vince would go nuts over...and USA will too, but what it is, who known.  Sub-2 million maybe? 

WWE programming is over-valued but because its highly rated for cable and relatively consistent, they generate higher rights fees than they otherwise would.  They are seen as DVR proof (like live sports) though thats not really true.  But most of the time WWE wants to be thought of as entertainment.  When its time to negotiate TV deals, they are a sport.

Likely nothing changes under Vince fully transitions out.  Hunter will make changes.  Until then, this is WWE status quo. 

[The Unknown Poster]

Hells yeah

 

[Goalie]

WK12 gets a meh from me. I like Omega and Jericho but its a weekday and no chance in hell i watch it. I already know... OMG 6 stars