pw13

First time I've heard that, but it makes a certain amount of sense. I could see Pinball really liking Hall, although it would/should be Dinwiddie's call. Others to keep an eye on are Claybrooks and Shivers. John Murphy hinted on Twitter that it will be a big name.

You presumably mean Hendrix. IMO he's more like top 5, despite getting no all-star recognition. Must be re-signed.

When team nominees were announced I predicted finalists/winners as follows: Kelly will win MOP over Oliveira Oliveira will win MOC over Dequoy Betts will win MODP over Pickett Stiggers will win MOR over Korsak Leake will win MOSTP over Whyte Hardrick will win MOOL over Allen I'll stick to those predictions (except of course Stiggers over Gray, not Korsak). IMO Pickett should win MODP, but Betts will win even though he's a one-trick pony compared to Pickett.

Kelly will win MOP over Oliveira Oliveira will win MOC over Dequoy Betts will win MODP over Pickett Stiggers will win MOR over Korsak Leake will win MOSTP over Whyte Hardrick will win MOOL over Allen

This is not a lineup that makes a mockery of competition. Yes, they are not starting their starting QB, but other than that this is just about as full a lineup as they could muster. Two guys sitting out (McManis and Peters) got injured last week. Oakman might be considered a healthy scratch although he has been dinged a couple of times in recent games. Putting in Brinkman to replace him is not much of a step back, if at all. Oakman, Hendrix and Brinkman are all top-notch DTs; both Brinkman and Oakman were healthy scratches earlier this season when they were unable to dress three INT DTs because of roster issues elsewhere. Argos sat one regular (Ouellette) as a healthy scratch last week, and are arguably sitting one and resting one (who Dinwiddie said might see some action).

No argument there. But this is still a solid Toronto lineup even with an unproven QB. I still expect Bombers to win, but Argos are gonna make them earn it.

This is -- apart from Kelly, if in fact he doesn't play at all -- a fairly full lineup the Argos are putting on the field. Oakman is being replaced by Brinkman, who is the team's best run stopper and someone who played earlier this year when Oakman was a healthy scratch (and played in the Grey Cup). McManis, who got dinged up last week but would likely play this week it it was a must-win, is replaced by Jonathan Jones who has seen a fair bit of action at LB this year and played (for McManis) in the Grey Cup. The biggest new absence is Jamal Peters, who was injured last week and likely wouldn't be able to play even if this game was for all the marbles. Cam Phillips is also out with an injury; he was replaced last week by a guy who dressed for the first time and had only a couple of targets. This week he's replaced by Jeremiah Haydel, who has played a few games the past two seasons but is nothing to write home about. Chances are the Argos' healthy NAT receivers (Brissett, Ungerer and Nield) will be targeted more than Haydel. Gittens has been out for a few weeks and Argos are thin in the secondary, with Robertson Daniel, DaShaun Amos and Maurice Carnell all out with long-term injuries.

The same way you find time to read and critique, perhaps?

Since I don't think responding to opinions by offering alternative opinions is trolling, I'll try to respond to this one as well. The Argos do in fact share their stadium with one other (regular) occupant, TFC, and occasionally with the Canadian national men's and women's soccer teams. Accordingly, they don't have unfettered access to any date they want. But it's worth noting that TFC and the Argos have the same owner and the same team president, so it might be an exaggeration to suggest the Argos get only the scraps. When the team was owned by Braley and played in the Rogers Centre, it did have an absolutely awful time getting decent home dates. But that ended seven years ago. This year they got three Saturdays, two Fridays, two Sundays and one Monday (which was the final day of a long weekend, so there's not much reason to be concerned about that). No Thursdays, which some fans in some cities detest. I haven't done a thorough analysis of this year's entire schedule but I'm pretty confident Toronto has had fewer short weeks than some other teams. Having three byes in the first 11 weeks, and none thereafter, obviously sucks and I'm not happy that MLSE either asked for that or didn't fight it. There might be some pseudo-logical reason for wanting it (like easier to sell tickets in the fall than summer) but it's not a good situation for the team to be in. I and some other Argo fans have complained about it on fan forums and Twitter, for what little that is worth.

Feel free to keep believing that; evidence suggests it's not true, but we are all free to believe what we want.

The schedule makers, sure. But this has nothing to do with the Argos' ability to control their stadium access. They were never going to play the Bombers at home this year, thanks to the new, cost-saving schedule that gives teams more intra-division games and less distant travel. Should the two teams have played before now? Yes. I've advocated for the season to always open with a Grey Cup rematch in the home of the champions -- a "kickoff classic." IMO there is a way to do this that would not only create a major new event attracting interest across the league, but would also make scheduling way easier. But since this idea is just in my head, we are stuck with the existing scheduling regimen, which has meant Argos played Edmonton and Wpg only once last year, Wpg and BC only once this year, and who knows what the future will bring. Edwards has been gone from Toronto since the day after Grey Cup, but sure, he's evidence of ass-clownery on the 2023 Argos.

That's a slight exaggeration, but yes, there was a major brouhaha between (the always-charming) Brandon Banks and Trevon Tate on the sideline in the second game of the year, and after the ninth game there was a fight in the locker room. And as it turned out, all that volatility helped bring the team together off the field as well as on. Over the final 11 games last season (nine RS pls two post-season), they lost a single game that actually mattered in the standings. And over the first 12 (meaningful) games this year, they lost a single game. That doesn't happen with a bad locker room.

Thanks for the kind words. As for C&S, it has never been confirmed, but I think it's almost certain they were papering the house. The crowds got way bigger all of a sudden when they took over, with no obvious reason.

Yep. Argos are almost certainly gonna lose, and they don't care, so why should we? Bomber fans should be happy they're being gifted a win. If I were running the Argos I'd have fielded a full lineup for this game, and used meaningless games upcoming to rest guys. But fortunately for all concerned, I'm not running the Argos.

Argos have only one actual practice this week (tomorrow). Today's was described as a "walk-through." Chances are they will have a very vanilla game plan, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few other key players (in addition to Kelly) sit this one out. They're probably more interested in playing a full-ish lineup on Oct. 6 when they celebrate the team's 150th birthday. And then they'll likely use the last three games to rest some guys, try to stay semi-sharp, etc.

I'm humbled to be so informed -- I trust you've been at BMO Field to scope out the crowds of 2-3k last year. I bow to your superior knowledge about all things Argo. Since you know so much, perhaps you could tell us what exactly the vice-chair of the Argos does? Also, thanks for the correction on spelling the Rocket's last name. Ashamed to say I got it wrong (Ismail, silly me) in the book. Also ashamed to say the book was about more than "Ishmail." Again, silly me. Wow, never heard that one before!

Nice to see such a high level of discussion here.

That's a pretty inaccurate accusation of factual inaccuracy. Here are the actual facts: Argos' announced attendance began declining in 1977, blipped up in 1982, began dropping again in 1983, blipped up in 1989-90 (when SkyDome was new, and those numbers were viewed very suspiciously by media covering the team during Harry Ornest's two years as owner). Up (for real) in 1991, then began declining again. Up slightly in Flutie's two seasons (to crowds not much bigger than today's). Big increase in 2004-5-6-7, but the widespread belief was that Cynamon and Sokolowski papered the house. Downward trend ever since, but now tracking upwards for three consecutive years. You can accuse MLSE of "lying" about attendance, but -- presumably unlike you -- I go to every Argo home game and I can tell you the crowds have been much bigger this year than last year. Maybe you'd like further evidence: Toronto Argonauts All-Time Attendance on CFLdb Statistics As for the second part of your rant, again "factually inaccurate." Pinball was not "running it"; he was completely uninvolved before Bill Manning (MLSE appointee) convinced him to return to the team as GM. Yes, Pinball hired Dinwiddie, but to suggest MLSE had "nothing to do with" any of this is utterly ridiculous. If you'd like to educate yourself better about the modern history of the Argos, I suggest you read these books: Bouncing Back: From National Joke to Grey Cup Champs (lulu.com) Year of the Rocket – Sutherland House Publishing (sutherlandhousebooks.com)

I disagree. The decline of the Argos goes back 40 years and has had many factors, including (for much of it) neglectful or in some cases abusive ownership. MLSE is far from perfect, and there's still a gigantic hill to climb. But IMO the Argos are in better shape market-wise than they were five years ago. Attendance is trending up and merch sales appear to be way up. (Plus there is a much bigger and better assortment of merch, for what that's worth.) MLSE has put a good mgmt group in place on the football side and appears to be serious about building the team into a perennial contender.

I fully understand how the cap works. Zero dollars of Muamba's salary (excluding any signing bonus) is being applied against the cap. Same with Bladek. Now they have a third of Harris's salary to play with as well, since his final six games would have been charged against the cap if he was active, but won't be now that he's on IR. All teams go into a season knowing they will spend more than the cap, because of long-term injuries. What we don't know is how teams build that into their cap planning, but having two high-salaried guys like Muamba and Bladek on IR all season (and perhaps this was always the plan) allows the team to spend elsewhere and remain cap-compliant. I'm confident the Argos used some of that "elsewhere" money to boost Kelly's 2023 salary, and they likely used some of it to pay a front-loaded signing bonus to Nicastro. And again, I fully understand that Kelly's larger salary in 2024 will need to be accounted for within the cap. Some guys will depart -- as happens every year with every team. The idea that they're in for a major roster overhaul because of it seems exaggerated to me, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. If we can believe this story (Toronto Argos make QB Chad Kelly highest-paid player in CFL with three-year contract worth $1.865 million - 3DownNation), the difference between Kelly's take this year and next year is closer to $300k.

The fact that some salaries won't count against the cap is precisely why the savings CAN be applied elsewhere. If Muamba is getting paid $150k, and none of it is on the cap, the $150k can be spent elsewhere within the cap. Bladek has already been replaced by Nicastro, who has a contract for next season and beyond, with Giffen (who will need to be re-signed) and other young o-linemen coming up behind. Yes, the Argos -- like every team, every year -- will have choices to make. But they seem fairly adept at cap management, and I don't expect them to fall to pieces anymore than the Bombers did when Collaros got a big salary boost, Their QB expense in 2024 will be much higher than it was in 2023, but not massively higher than it was in 2022.

Muamba and Bladek have already served two stints on the six and are now starting their third. It's likely neither plays this year, IMO. That's a lot of money saved against the cap. Harris is now starting on the six as well, so a third of his salary will be saved. They'll be able to use these savings to give one-game rests to key players down the stretch (starting with Ouellette today), and it's possible they'll use some (maybe already have) to re-sign some key guys with up-front bonus money. Smart cap management.

He was Toronto's starting RB at the beginning of last season. It was his injury that pushed Ouellette into that spot.

There's no question the Argos have a bunch of NATs coming to the end of their three-year rookie deals: Brissett, Cassar, Giffen, Hoyte and Nield. They've all been mostly backups/STers although Brissett and Nield have started at times, and Giffen had a monster game early this year. All all of them can expect to be paid more next year. The Argos might not be able to keep all of them, but will keep the ones they absolutely need to keep. They already re-signed the most important 3rd-year NAT, Peter Nicastro. They won't be the same squad next year; no team is, obviously.

Muamba hasn't played this season, and likely won't. Harris has been effective in a small amount of playing time. The issue I was addressing was not their on-field performance but the Argos' ability to afford Kelly's contract when it kicks in next season. Those two guys probably account for about $250k; add in Bladek and that's over $400k in potential savings to be applied elsewhere.