Mike

8 second half possessions that game for Buck. 5 of them resulted in NEGATIVE yardage. Seriously, the drive totals for the second half read like this: -2, -7, 5, -4, 28, -12, 92, -10. It's pretty sad when you can literally say that 102% of your total offense in an entire half came on one drive against a prevent defense.

I don't know if I agree with that. General consensus is that a "long drive" is 70+ yards. Buck had 4 of those all year. One of them was a 1 play, 75 yard touchdown run. A second one was a 65 yard catch combined with an 8 yard follow up. One of them was primarily against a prevent defense. His 105 yard drive was phenomenal though. He can hit the big play every now and then, but he's not marching up and down the field regularly.

You can point to garbage time with Goltz against the Argos (or Stamps) but you can also point to the same thing with Pierce against Hamilton. I'd say statistically, the worst half by a Bomber QB all season would be Pierce's second half against Montreal in week 1. Despite scoring 33 points in that game, Pierce's second half reads like this: 3 first downs, 6 two and outs. Sure, he scored a touchdown after a huge Jade Etienne catch-and-run, but other than that and a field goal to start the third quarter, he peeled off drives of 4 yards, 0 yards, 8 yards, 4 yards, 8 yards and 2 yards. Six straight two and outs to end the game. Totally unacceptable.

More statistics to throw at you ... Buck Pierce has been sacked 16 times on 122 dropbacks this year. That means he is getting sacked once every 7.62 dropbacks. Justin Goltz has been sacked 5 times on 83 dropbacks this year. That means he is getting sacked once every 16.6 dropbacks. Another one ... Buck Pierce running the offense has resulted in 53 first downs on 60 possessions this year. That is an average of .88 first downs per possession. Justin Goltz running the offense has resulted in 46 first downs on 36 possessions this year. That is an average of 1.27 first downs per possession. Please, tell me more about how Buck is better than Goltz.

100% agreed. They're both atrocious, but what stood out to me that doesn't really show up in those numbers is that Goltz seems to just pepper his two and out possessions in all over the place whereas Pierce will commonly go 5 or 6 possessions in a row without a single first down.

Oh and here is Hamilton's http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/ham/downloads/downloads/2013/08/ticatsdepth-aug162013083311.pdf

http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/wpg/pdf/depth/2013/DEPTH084406.pdf ON: Washington, DeAngelis OFF: Frazier, Palardy

Figured I'd make this thread since I always point out that "advanced" statistics do NOT favor Buck Pierce when comparing him against other quarterbacks. I'll try and update this weekly just to keep it current especially with Hall playing this week to add another comparison. What I looked at mostly was % of two and outs, average offense per drive, points per possession, etc. For the sake of continuity, when I tally this stuff up, I counted a turnover prior to a first down being gained as a two and out but a turnover after a first down had been gained was not. Here's what I came up with: Week 1 Buck Pierce - 19 possessions, 12 two and outs (63%), 3 turnovers, 2 touchdowns Average points per possession - 0.94 Average yardage per possession - 16.26 yards (longest 73 yards) Week 2 Buck Pierce - 18 possessions, 8 two and outs (44%), 3 turnovers, 2 touchdowns Average points per possession - 1 Average yardage per possession - 20.1 yards (longest 105 yards) Justin Goltz - 1 possession, 1 two and out, 1 turnover Average points per possession - 0 Average yardage per possession - 4 (longest 4 yards) Week 3 Buck Pierce - 15 possessions, 6 two and outs (40%), 3 touchdowns Average points per possession - 1.2 Average yardage per possession - 22.6 (longest 92 yards) One thing I will point out, although the stats are what they are ... All 6 of the two and outs in this game were in the second half, where we had 8 possessions. That's horrible second half efficiency. In fact, aside from a 92 yard drive while Hamilton was playing prevent, our net offense in the second half of this game was -7 yards. Week 4 Buck Pierce - 8 possessions, 5 two and outs (62%), 1 turnover Average points per possession - 0.75 Average yardage per possession - 20.62 (longest 65 yards) Justin Goltz - 7 possessions, 2 two and outs (28%), 1 turnover Average points per possession - 1.28 Average yardage per possession - 29 (longest 64 yards) Week 5 Justin Goltz - 13 possessions, 6 two and outs (46%), 1 turnover, 3 touchdowns Average points per possession - 1.61 Average yardage per possession - 25.23 (longest 80 yards) Week 6 Justin Goltz - 15 possessions, 5 two and outs (33%), 1 turnover, 2 touchdowns Average points per possession - 1.2 Average yardage per possession - 17.2 (longest 41 yards) Week 8 Max Hall - 14 possessions, 6 two and outs (42%), 3 turnovers, 1 touchdown Average points per possession - 0.64 Average yardage per possession - 23.92 (longest 103 yards) Buck Pierce - 1 possession, 1 two and out (100%) Average points per possession - 0 Average yardage per possession - 9 (longest 9 yards) 2013 totals to date Buck Pierce - 61 possessions, 32 two and outs (52.4%), 7 turnovers (11.4%), 7 touchdowns (11.4%) Average points per possession - 0.98 Average yardage per possession - 19.58 yards Justin Goltz - 36 possessions, 14 two and outs (38.8%), 4 turnovers, (11.1%), 5 touchdowns (13.8%) Average points per possession - 1.14 Average yardage per possession - 21.91 yards Max Hall - 14 possessions, 6 two and outs (42%), 3 turnovers (21%), 1 touchdown (7%) Average points per possession - 0.64 Average yardage per possession - 23.92

Prediction. Hall throws for 8 touchdowns and Winnipeg wins 72-8 Hamilton realizes they got beat by Winnipeg's 3rd stringer, Bob Young spends the night getting hammered at the St. Norbert Hotel and after an ill-advised phone call to Jeff Hunt, agrees to trade his entire 87-man roster to Ottawa in exchange for their expansion draft rights.

You can't pull that argument, seen as how you argued against the depth chart for the entire two weeks it was flipped.

Chase, you can look at basic statistics all you want. If you really want to break out stats that mean something, they all favor Goltz. Points per possession, percentage of two-and-outs, average net offense. For example ... last I checked, Buck was going two and out roughly 44% of the time this year. Compared to Goltz at around 17-18% Not even close. And there are plenty more stats just like that.

Technically, that can never be fact. You're using past history to dictate the future which, by definition, can never be anything but a guess or an opinion. And based on how shitty Buck is, I'd say it's an opinion that can easily be argued.

Of course you're not, you've been blindly defending the guy forever. I get that you like Buck Pierce but trust me when I tell you that even if the initial impact is a step back, the long term benefits we will see from finally cutting ties with Buck are nothing but good for this franchise.

If he was willing to accept a demotion, he'd do it here.

I saw him at Ichiban last night with Stewart and Sears ... didn't seem like he knew at that point.

Penn State? What a touching story.

oddly enough, that's actually where my season tickets are located. But I just so happen to be taking my girl's season tickets so I can try out the lower bowl with a buddy this Friday.

If Hall gets benched for a poor performance, I will lose my mind.

I just want to point this out for you ... Kyle Walters was on the job for less than 24 hours on an interim basis and you're already complaining about him. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that? I mean come on Iso, "Why throw him into the fire"? What are we supposed to do? Run our club without a general manager until the end of the year? We're not going to hire one midseason. This isn't a shortcut at all, it's a necessary shuffling of job responsibilities in order to get some stability in our front office. I just think it's absolutely ridiculous that Walters has yet to do anything and you're already doubting him for no apparent reason. Talk about making your mind up a bit early.

Let me spin this around and ask it the other way. If you can get a CEO with an incredible business background AND connections within the league, why would you not want that additional benefit?

Watching on my phone ... Miller initially seems more comfortable speaking to the media. I like that Walters is going to be around no matter what. He's a solid front office guy and despite his apparent shortcomings as a special teams coach, he knows the CFL and he knows the CIS. Glad Moll is going to stick around, although I expect that will only be until the end of the year. Interesting to hear about Drew Morris too. Midwest scouting is huge in the CFL, glad we have a dedicated bird dog in there. Interesting to hear that he evaluates talent on other teams for future years. Re: Muamba ... glad he's a top priority. I think based on Walters' answers, we get him locked up. Probably late though. As I'm watching this ... I'm starting to get a sense that there is a solid plan here. It's going to be messy to get it underway, but I like the vision Walters and Miller seem to have. Laughing as Miller says "proper people are making the right decisions ... NOW" As much as I hate it, I'm getting the sense that Walters would keep Burke as head guy. But I like Walters ... might be torn on this as the year goes on. I do not like Burke. But Walters seems like a smart guy with a vision. I have a feeling the media is going to like Walters. But I have a feeling they're not going to like Miller ... but they'll respect him.

THAT is who you think he looks like from The Office?

lol bring on the 8-10 seasons! sadly, that'd get us a home playoff game.

Collaros and Glenn are both free agents at the end of the year, if I remember correctly.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/ticats-coach/