Mike
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Posts posted by Mike
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Mike, c'mon dude. The Lions offered Reilly to Winnipeg. Mack said no. Yes, the conditions were different than Edmonton, I'll grant you that but Mack didn't want to give up a first rounder.
The Lions didn't offer Reilly to anyone.
They offered the rights to Reilly with the ability to negotiate prior to a deal to Edmonton.
They offered the rights to Reilly with no ability to negotiate prior to a deal to Winnipeg.
There is a HUGE difference.
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If we're going to cherry-pick facts about trades that moved quarterbacks to teams other than Winnipeg in an effort to slam Mack, why aren't we ripping him for not holding on to Jyles for one more year and trading him, a first-round pick and Justin Palardy to Edmonton for Ricky Ray? I mean, why hit singles when you can nail the grand slam of revisionist history? A few tweaks here, a forgotten fact there, and Ricky Ray should be lofting corner routes to Greg Carr, who also would still be here putting up all-star numbers if it wasn't for Mack.
Damn you Joe Mack.
Close but by acquiring Reilly he could have turned around and traded him to Hervey for Nichols and his pick back or depending on how bad Hervey wanted him, made Reilly an offer he couldn't refuse to stay.
In either case, the situation looks more like a half hearted attempt.
Right, because that makes sense.
Two horse race, one horse can't sign a deal and the other horse is just going to give up assets to get him.
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Reilly to EDM was in the books before WPG was even a participant. Argument is a non starter.
Again, we really don't know that to be true. An offer was made by Wally to get Reilly to Joe Mack. Mack refused. So Reilly was traded to Edmonton. If he would have been traded to Winnipeg then he could have done the deal as Reilly wasn't a free agent yet & still under contract to the Bombers. Was it a risk? Yes, surely. A HUGE risk & making that trade would have been ballsy because of it but considering where our first round pick is now, I'd have done it. And made bloody sure I signed him. We absolutely do not know if Reilly preferred Edmonton over Winnipeg. They traded for him & got the deal done. We weren't privy & never will be to the discussions in Mack's office, so all total speculation about that. We don't know what was said. Bottom line, that Reilly was the best opportunity to try & fix the mess at qb we have now. Not doing anything has resulted in a losing team as well as a scorcehed Earth battlefield with Bomber managemnt & coaching.... So, maybe the risk Mack took was really standing pat. In the end, doing the deal or not doing the deal cost people their jobs. The repercussions are still going on. I'd like to believe that it was out of Joe's hands but c'mon.... Looking at how he's done business in the past, I find that hard to believe.
So then please explain why the following two things occurred ...
a ) Wally refused to let Winnipeg talk shop with Reilly prior to a trade, but allowed Edmonton to
b ) Reilly did not opt to wait until free agency before signing a deal in order to maximize his earnings
According to what we know it came down to two things... One, the Lions wanted a first rounder from us but a second rounder from Edmonton. And he signed with the Esks virtually minutes after he was obtained in a trade from the Lions. To me, it came down to Mack not believing that fixing the qb mess was worth a first rounder which I find unbelievable. He overvalued Buck & Goltz & undervalued Elliott & Brink which was a mistake. He also dod not want to pay & therefore take a risk on Reilly. According to the way it supposedly went down, Wally offered Mack Reilly & he said no. His choice. Look what has happened since.
Are you turning a blind eye to the facts in this story on purpose or are you just doing it to frustrate me?
The single biggest thing about the difference in negotiations between BC/WPG and BC/EDM is that Edmonton had permission to talk to Reilly and we didn't. But you keep ignoring that every single time.
Why?
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Because Wpg was never serious about acquiring the guy, otherwise, his agent would have advised against signing before all the offers were listened too. Mack was betting on his horses in the race, just as he has always done before, the track record is there for all to see.
Right, because I guess we just never really wanted Reilly, we just negotiated with BC and then leaked the story that Buono didn't give us a fair shake at negotiating with Reilly in order to save face.
What is that? Conspiracy theory #800 on this board?
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Reilly to EDM was in the books before WPG was even a participant. Argument is a non starter.
Again, we really don't know that to be true. An offer was made by Wally to get Reilly to Joe Mack. Mack refused. So Reilly was traded to Edmonton. If he would have been traded to Winnipeg then he could have done the deal as Reilly wasn't a free agent yet & still under contract to the Bombers. Was it a risk? Yes, surely. A HUGE risk & making that trade would have been ballsy because of it but considering where our first round pick is now, I'd have done it. And made bloody sure I signed him. We absolutely do not know if Reilly preferred Edmonton over Winnipeg. They traded for him & got the deal done. We weren't privy & never will be to the discussions in Mack's office, so all total speculation about that. We don't know what was said. Bottom line, that Reilly was the best opportunity to try & fix the mess at qb we have now. Not doing anything has resulted in a losing team as well as a scorcehed Earth battlefield with Bomber managemnt & coaching.... So, maybe the risk Mack took was really standing pat. In the end, doing the deal or not doing the deal cost people their jobs. The repercussions are still going on. I'd like to believe that it was out of Joe's hands but c'mon.... Looking at how he's done business in the past, I find that hard to believe.
So then please explain why the following two things occurred ...
a ) Wally refused to let Winnipeg talk shop with Reilly prior to a trade, but allowed Edmonton to
b ) Reilly did not opt to wait until free agency before signing a deal in order to maximize his earnings
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What else would you call him? He's a walking injury waiting to happen that they made into the starter. So instead of grooming someone who's not a walking concussion and giving them the reps (I won't even go into the fact that I think his numbers suck considering he is a vet), they started him off at the beginning of the season and he takes reps away from someone they could have started grooming right away.
Burke wants to win so if he plays Buck, that's why. You can thank Joe Mack for this mess. He never brought a qb in.A first rounder whomay never see the field here was too much of a price to pay to get Mike Reilly. For you Reilly haters, the guy is beginning to round into a pretty good qb for the Eskimos on a team with an OC (Samms) & HC (Reed) almost as clueless as Crowton was & Burke is. I put this garbage at the qb position right straight on Mack.
The first round pick never guaranteed they would get Reilly though! Why in gods name do some of you pretend like it was as simple as trade the pick and sign Reilly? The guy was obviously more interested in going to Edmonton than anywhere else to start with.
Gosh, actually giving the guy some money to make him think of coming here would never have occurred to Mack. Maybe meeting or surpassing what Edmonton would give him... Considering Mack's track record & his disdain for any other teams free agent starters I'm of the opinion he could have had the guy but just didn't want him. Ah, water under the bridge now. Reilly's gone. And thank God Mack is too.
I'm just going to point out something that seems completely logical to me, but it seems to get missed a lot when discussing the whole Reilly thing.
Reilly was a pending free agent who was known to have two teams interested in him (Winnipeg and Edmonton)
If Reilly had waited to hit free agency, his earning potential would have increased because of the potential for a bidding war.
Wally Buono opted to open trade discussions with both teams that were interested in Reilly, but only allowed Edmonton the luxury of being allowed to talk to Reilly BEFORE a trade was made.
Reilly opted to sign a contract prior to free agency and chose not to capitalize on the ability to earn more money on the open market.
Am I the only person here who sees how ******* obvious it is that Reilly did not want to come to Winnipeg?
Wally knew it. He didn't let Winnipeg talk to Reilly because Reilly would have told them he wasn't interested. Which in turn hampers his ability to use them as a negotiating tool in trade talks with Hervey. He let Edmonton talk to Reilly because getting them to ink a deal prior increases the return he could get from Hervey.
It's not rocket surgery here folks.
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They were the "Winnipegs" in 1935...
http://siamandas.com/time_machine/PAGES/winnipeg_stories/GREYCUP.htm
You keep reiterating it like you're trying to prove a point.
I don't think there's anyone that doesn't understand what you're saying.
I think what you're failing to understand is that nobody cares about the semantics, this FRANCHISE has 10 Grey Cups.
If the Bombers changed their name tomorrow to the Winnipeg Donkeys, the Donkeys franchise would be 10 time Grey Cup champions.
I'm just saying that the actual name Blue Bombers was given to them after 1935. People are saying the HOF is 'lazy"... That they didn't do their research. I'm not proving a poiunt more than trying to correct a mistake. In reality, I really don't give a ****.
One person said the HOF was lazy and it was well after you'd already tried to make your point several times, so that's not going to fly with me.
You're just playing silly bugger.
We all know what you're saying, we just don't care because it's pure semantics. Don't get me wrong, you're right. It just doesn't really matter.
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What else would you call him? He's a walking injury waiting to happen that they made into the starter. So instead of grooming someone who's not a walking concussion and giving them the reps (I won't even go into the fact that I think his numbers suck considering he is a vet), they started him off at the beginning of the season and he takes reps away from someone they could have started grooming right away.
Considering how often he is hurt, he should be a backup QB's wet dream. The backups in Wpg have had every opportunity to take the job away from him and failed, from Jyles to Brink to Elliott and now Goltz and Hall. Lack of reps has not been the problem with Buck here.
The lack of practice reps has been though.
When you consider how Pierce dominates reps throughout the week in preparation for a game .. only to get hurt .. then the backups are being thrown into the fire without adequate preparation .. how can you expect anyone to excel? As a backup, in that situation, you don't get a chance to develop chemistry with your receiver and you don't get the bulk of the practice reps as packages are implemented for that week - especially when Buck's availability is still in question and he's still sucking down reps in the off chance he can go. Not exactly a recipe for success.
That's a coaching blunder. Every QB should be getting some reps with the starting unit in practice, even if it's only a 2 minute drill like MB is doing now.
Getting a handful of reps at the end of practice isn't the same thing as getting the starter's reps.
The starter is going to dominate reps in practice. He needs them to prepare and to get a grasp on what is being done offensively for that week. That's the nature of the beast. But Buck, being the band aid that he is, can't be relied upon to finish a game let alone be available from week to week. So all that prep time goes to waste. Even if you were to split reps 50 / 50 between Buck and a backup, you're not giving the starter the best chance for success. They NEED those reps and the problem is amplified if the backup is a young, inexperienced quarterback.
So Mitchell, Collaros, Willey all get starter reps? How can they look so good in their starts without it?
Dickenson, Milanovich and Cortez.
Compared to Crowton.
You figure it out.
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Yeah the HOF should change their page or alter it to show by Club/franchise and not just by the name. See with Hamilton the Tiger-Cats have won 8 Cups but the City has 15. The difference is is that the Hamilton-Tigers, Hamilton Flying Wild Cats etc are defunct teams. They were not the same team with a new name change under the current Hamilton Football club (as far as I know). Had the 1925 Winnipeg Tammany Tigers won or the 42-43 RCAF Bombers I wouldn't consider that as a cup win because they wern't part of the WFC.
Bert Marples got robbed that year, he deserved an all-star nod.
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They were the "Winnipegs" in 1935...
http://siamandas.com/time_machine/PAGES/winnipeg_stories/GREYCUP.htm
You keep reiterating it like you're trying to prove a point.
I don't think there's anyone that doesn't understand what you're saying.
I think what you're failing to understand is that nobody cares about the semantics, this FRANCHISE has 10 Grey Cups.
If the Bombers changed their name tomorrow to the Winnipeg Donkeys, the Donkeys franchise would be 10 time Grey Cup champions.
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Bishop is a moron and one of the most overrated QBs to ever play our game. The only season where he "was in a good situation" is the season where the defense carried him the entire way. He just barely did enough to not completely **** up and cost them everything. Good lord, I don't care how little you think of Buck Pierce, you've gotta think this was a far better situation...
I think if we kept Bishop over Pierce, we'd have been in a much better situation currently.
Simply because Bishop's sucking is much more obvious than Pierce's. In a perfect world, we never would have signed Pierce and we would've recruited a different starting QB by now.
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Well, like I said... The Winnipeg Winnipegs won the 1935 Grey Cup & that is what is listed on the CFL HOF website under past Grey Cup champions. Not the Blue Bombers. According to the CFL & the HOF the team has won 9. Don't tell me, tell them. You can tell me anything you want & it won't change what is on their website.
The Hall of Fame counts the wins by nicknames, not organization. And if you want to get really picky, there is no CFL HOF. It's the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.
Jacquie, the Winnipegs are not the Bombers. They are the Winnipegs. They are listed as the GC winners in 1935. You can say whatever the hell you want. Like I said, call the CANADIAN FOOTBALL Hall of Fame & take it up with them. Quit correcting me. And sorry about the name of the HOF. I screwed up. So sorry. My bad. I should have known better. Jeez, whatever.
My god, who pissed in your cheerios?
Quit playing silly bugger just for the sake of it.
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Wonder why Hamilton cut him in may?
One of those things where the level of play didn't match the contract.
He's still an okay player, just not at the price tag Hamilton had for him.
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Veteran what does that mean
Is this type of move against the rules?
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So Goltz is the number one then? Oh...
Mike, if I recall correctly, you were very pro-Buck until last season when you switched to Joey (as did I).
Buck got us to the Grey Cup, then in came Crowton and whatever was going on between him and Lapo.
It's all moot now because niether of us make the decision. But we've seen a QB get run out of town that everyone wished we had back and it just seems silly to repeat that mistake until a bonafide starter actually arrives. Even if Buck was gone, would we go into next season with Goltz & Hall and without a veteran? Never a bad idea to have a veteran, even if his best days are behind.
You mean he was along for the ride.
I was always very supportive of Buck when he was playing alright. I wanted him to succeed and while he was never an elite level QB for us, he at least did an okay job of managing things for us while he was in the lineup. Unfortunately, since the Banjo Bowl two years ago when he threw 5 picks and got lit up by Craig Butler, he's never been the same. His numbers since that game do not deserve my support.
Buck has never been an on-field leader for us on a consistent basis and while he played at a higher level for us a few years ago, his mental and physical game has broken down so much that he's just no longer a viable option.
The coaches spent all offseason designing a max protection offense to basically keep him healthy and in the game at the cost of production. It didn't work because it's not an effective scheme for his skillset or what's left of it.
They took the reins off and let him play HIS game and it got him injured after one half of football.
He's just not durable enough to play the style of football that gives him the best chance at being effective anymore. Keeping him safe comes at the cost of rendering him useless.
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Maybe I just believe in a great comeback story. But I wasn't on the dump Glenn bandwagon either when everyone was so happy to see him cut in favour of an unproven third stringer.
Part of me is excited to see a proven CFL OC design and call plays for Buck and then we will see how much was Crowton and how much was Buck. Im willing to bet more Crowton than Buck.
And yes, if he starts and plays poorly, I'd absolutely admit it. He's the number one QB until someone takes it from him and thus far, no one has. I hope Hall does this week. I just dont think he will.
Serious question.
Are you forgetting that Buck already had his opportunity with a proven CFL OC? He wasn't any good with PLP either.
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To the person who said the season is lost because of Buck, how many games did Goltz and Hall win?
Goltz lost to Calgary and in BC, games that you could quite likely expect to lose anyway. PIerce lost to Montreal and Hamilton, 2 teams that you should beat this year, Hall lost to Hamilton. So yeah, sticking with Pierce gets a LOT of blame for the season being done. He doesn't go into crap mode in Hamilton then the team still has a chance. He doesn't toss up that many ints in the opener against Montreal they might have started the season strong and not been as down as they are. Take your lips off PIerces ass and actually look at what's happened this season, and last as well, Pierce is not the player he used to be, not even close.
Let's not forget that Pierce also lost games where our defense was playing at an elite level, whereas Hall and Goltz have been saddled with a marshmallow soft defense supporting them. Hell, even when Pierce had our special teams scoring points for him, he still lost the game.
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To the person who said the season is lost because of Buck, how many games did Goltz and Hall win?
I think we all agree Crowton was bad. His system was bad. His play calling was bad. The O line is mostly bad.
If we assume there will be some sort of improvement now, I'd just as soon reset the QB position and go with the veteran. I would think the veteran CFL QB who has won before would be the QB most able to adjust with the changes Marcel will need to make this week.
Either way, if Hall is who Marcell and Burke want, so be it. My feeling is, Hall will not play well, we will not win and we will be back with Buck next week anyway. And my feeling (again) is Buck will play better. I could be wrong. But I dont think we write off Buck given the challenges of this offence this season. He deserves the opportunity to sink or swim and if he sucks, I'll be the first one on here saying so.
I just think starting Hall or Goltz means this season is a wash and Im not confident either guy is here next year.
Somehow I doubt that.
He's sucked for the majority of three and a half years here, why is one week going to change your mind?
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Wrong choice. And by the time the team realises it, the season will be truly lost.
But I hope Hall has a hell of a game.
Judging by your posts and opinions you feel more like someone who hangs out at that other site
.Anyways, thankfully we didn't go full circle back to Buck although I wouldn't be surprised if hes back in the lineup for LD.
That's my biggest fear. I do NOT want to travel to Regina and have to sit through a game with that guy behind center.
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How's KBF & Mike this morning.....I have to admit that last nights game had some of the finest, and friendly, ladies I've seen in awhile. I think everyone had a good 'glow' going considering the state of the team.
back in Kelowna now....
I was absolutely liquored.
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Wrong choice. And by the time the team realises it, the season will be truly lost.
But I hope Hall has a hell of a game.
You know ...
I'm all for alternate opinions.
But I'm starting to get a bit annoyed with your defense of Buck.
"Just because" is not a good enough reason. I'd love to actually see you explain your opinion and back it up with something substantial other than you think it's a bad move because you have a personal favorite based upon, well ... what kind of appears to be nothing. You keep saying "Buck is better" .. prove it?
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Knuckles tweets that it looks like the club is going with Max Hall on Saturday afternoon.
Bellefeuille: Burke decides QB on Saturday
in Blue Bomber Discussion
Posted
Please show me proof of anything you speculate on under the guise of an insider around here.