TBURGESS

You've got the order all wrong. First, bring in good people who prove that they can do the job, then keep them for continuity. Keeping bad coaches for continuity sake is how we end up with MB as OC for far too long.

Then we get a week of "I told ya so" and "We need to keep this group together" and "We're on the right track" and "O'Shea's a great HC" and so on before we fall back to earth the week after. Honestly, we should win this week. Regina's only won a single game all year, it's very hard to win back to back and we're at home.

The first sign of adversity was the 1-8 second half of last season. O'Shea wouldn't have lasted the whole last season in Montreal or Regina or probably anywhere other than Winnipeg where we stick with what's not working for way too long.

Mike's unfortunately been the smirking not deadly type. If he was winning 2 out of 3 games instead of losing 2 out of 3 games, no one would really complain about it. In fact, he'd be some type of saviour around here even if he didn't win the cup.

Folks who want to keep O'Shea on if he doesn't make the playoffs this year don't seem to understand the lessons that history teaches us. The list of rookie HC's who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years who didn't get fired has to be very small. The list of rookie HC's who didn't make the playoffs in their first 2 years and then went on to become good to great HC's is equally short. I'm not going to go through all the HC's in the last 20 years for all the teams, but I can tell you that the first and the second list contain exactly zero members when it comes to Bomber HC's in the last 20 years. Maybe someone who thinks we should keep O'Shea can go through the rest of the league and let me know if either group has ever happened in the CFL in the last 20 or so years.

Our defence was the best part of our game, but come on... 161 yards rushing against, 355 total yards, 37:45 time of possession for the Riders. Those are horrible stats for our defence especially against a team starting their 3rd string QB, who'd never won a CFL game. Got tired? Good defences stop the other team and get off the field. Ours didn't.

We've got a shot next week. It's hard to win back to back especially for a team that's only won one game all year. Regina isn't a very good team. Of course we aren't either. We're playing for our playoff lives. A loss would mean we're pretty much out of the playoffs especially if BC wins next week. Nichols could provide a spark that Brohm can't. He's only going to have a couple of practices so he'll be working with a much reduced playbook. The players by themselves could fix the stupid penalty problem this week which will allow our defence to get off of the field quicker. Lirm could punt perfectly and keep the ball out of the middle of the field. Our OC could call some deep patterns, some outside runs, some screens, some quick hitters and move the pocket around. Of course they could have done all these some other time in the year too. The Riders could continue to take penalties that take TD's off the board and make giant mistakes like snapping the ball 30 yards down field and failing to recover it. The giant green monkey is off of the Riders back. They aren't as likely to fail in the 4th now that they've won a game. I'm expecting them to run at us like they did in the second half all game long. If they establish the run and make smart decisions, they will likely end up 2-9.

It wasn't our defence putting the offence in a good spot. It was a huge error by the Riders offence that gave our offence a very short field.It was an error on SSKs part true .. without the recovery .. it's a punt and change in field position (albeit marginally with the wind) and again, you're relying on an inept offence to move the ball.The defence got pressure early in this game .. they WERE doing their part. The defence simply fell on a ball that Messam tried to fall on and missed. That wasn't a great defensive play. It was a horrible offensive play by the Riders. The defence did it's part in the first half and fell apart in the second half. Much like it's done in many games this year. No... it's not because they get tired. It's because the other teams make adjustments and we don't.

The D is not 'folding' they are getting scorched in second half's because the opposition is making adjustments (when they aren't taking stupid undisciplined penalties). These are deeper rooted problems than just running out of gas.It has to be disheartening to a proud player who is giving his all on defence and who knows the game is winnable if only the fourletterwording offense could play even half-decent. I don't wonder at the frustration penalties.The offense gave them a 10 nothing lead to run with.The defence put the offence in position to score 7 of those points. The offence showed ZERO sign they were capable of sustaining any sort of drive from the second quarter on. It wasn't our defence putting the offence in a good spot. It was a huge error by the Riders offence that gave our offence a very short field.

Walters will fire O'Shea eventually or he'll be gone too.

I don't think Marve plays again for us. I'd bring in Gale for the 3rd QB spot. 3 years in a good system and he did pretty well in his very limited playing time. Would be ahead of Davis and should be able to take Brohm's spot.

Buono's a better HC than Tedford. Wouldn't be surprised if he took over if the Lions don't win tonight. Ray back makes sense considering they cut Gale yesterday. I was kinda expecting to hear that Reilly was being activated in Edmonton too.

Our D's better than our O or special teams, but that's not the same as saying their good. I can't ignore that they allowed 20 second half points last game after the pick 6. I can't ignore that they are 7th in total defence, 5th in passing yards allowed, 8th in rushing yards allowed and 8th in points against. I can't ignore that they fold after adversity or that they allow long drives (Hint: You can't get off of the field if you don't stop the other team from getting 1st downs) I can't ignore that they force Hurl into the MLB spot even though we don't need to start 8 NI's or that I have to watch Bucknor chasing receivers into the endzone all the time. Our defence is below average in most stats and average in a few stats. The aren't going to win games for us, but they aren't the biggest reason we're losing so often.

Does this mean Reilly's ready to go back on the roster in Edmonton? Does Gale getting cut mean Ray's back on the roster in Toronto? Is Gale better than Brohm/Marve?

Gale might be better than Brohm/Marve too. Maybe we should bring him in for a look?

If Marve's injury is more than just 1 game then the Nichols trade makes even more sense for us.

I don't like Nichols, but he's an upgrade over Brohm/Marve and we didn't have to pay much to get him (I suspect he was about to get released by the Esks anyway). Good to see we're not sitting around doing nothing.

First thing we need to see is Davis get some reps. Maybe a 4th quarter or two after the season's officially over. No reason to give him any starts this year unless we lose another QB to injury.

I don't care who we start at QB this week, just make the decision now and give him most of the reps this week. Splitting the reps just gives both QB's an extra excuse for not doing their jobs.

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon.Actually, I'm arguing that Marve looks like an inexperienced QB, he's not getting much/any help from his OC and fans expectations are way too high.Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started. It could be that the OC doesn't think he can complete them or that the O line can't give him protection, but it's more likely that's just that's the way MB's offense works. There's no way for you to know what the reads are in any given play. That's a junk argument.In other posts you are slamming MB for shoehorning Marve into an offense built for Willy, an offense that was among the league leaders in long passing plays. Which is it? If the long ball isn't the first read, Marve isn't going to take it. Willy's a better QB and a pocket passer who gets to his 2nd maybe even 3rd read. That's the idea, not that I know what the reads are on any given play. Here's exactly what you typed, indicating your knowledge of the playcalls and what Marve's first read is: "Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started." FYI, the deepest receiver in a route is almost always the first read because of the time it takes to set to make that throw and get the ball there, even if that receiver is running a clearing route. If the defense is giving a free deep ball away, a QB will always take it. Marve was likely progressing through his reads, he certainly had a good amount of time on the majority of the passing plays, just too spooked to make a tough throw. He indicated that post-game with CJOB, that he needs to have more confidence in his first read. I disagree that the deepest receiver is almost always the first read. It certainly wasn't when I played way back in the dark ages. Sometimes the deep receiver is the primary. Sometimes one of the other receivers is the primary. Lots of the time the deep receiver is simply clearing for the guys underneath. That doesn't make him the primary receiver or the first read. Time in the pocket doesn't equal progressing through his reads. Too spooked to make the tough throw? How do you get that? Marve's got tons of confidence, probably more than he should have. He tried to throw into double coverage and tried to throw one across his body for god's sake. I didn't hear the CJOB post game show, so I'll take your word for it, but as I've said before, the first read isn't always the deep ball.

If the $$ are even close, I'd take the Stamps, Redblacks and Lions (Order of likelihood of getting a GC appearance, all are more likely to get playoff $) before I'd take Winnipeg if I were Lemon.

I'd take Walters over Taman and I don't want Tillman anywhere near my team.

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon.Actually, I'm arguing that Marve looks like an inexperienced QB, he's not getting much/any help from his OC and fans expectations are way too high.Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started. It could be that the OC doesn't think he can complete them or that the O line can't give him protection, but it's more likely that's just that's the way MB's offense works. There's no way for you to know what the reads are in any given play. That's a junk argument.In other posts you are slamming MB for shoehorning Marve into an offense built for Willy, an offense that was among the league leaders in long passing plays. Which is it? If the long ball isn't the first read, Marve isn't going to take it. Willy's a better QB and a pocket passer who gets to his 2nd maybe even 3rd read. That's the idea, not that I know what the reads are on any given play.

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon. Actually, I'm arguing that Marve looks like an inexperienced QB, he's not getting much/any help from his OC and fans expectations are way too high. Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started. It could be that the OC doesn't think he can complete them or that the O line can't give him protection, but it's more likely that's just that's the way MB's offense works.

I don't understand why folks expect a QB starting his 2nd game to make good decisions all the time. It's just not going to happen. Marve isn't going to play mistake free football. Nobody plays mistake free football. Sure Marve threw across his body. Everyone knows it's a bad thing because we've all seen it a thousand times in the CFL. Every QB in the league's made that mistake at least once. Sometimes they even get away with it, which makes them try again. It doesn't make Marve a bad QB. It makes him an inexperienced one. Everyone's seen QB's throw deep into double coverage too. Matty was probably right that Marve didn't trust his eyes and threw to the wrong receiver. It happens. That shows Marve's inexperience, not an inability to throw the deep ball. Sure he did missed a wide open receiver in his first game that would have been a TD, which looked horrible, but he's not the only QB to ever do that either. How can folks say that Marve can't complete a deep or even a medium depth pass? He's only thrown a handful of those kinds of passes because the design of our offence is to dink and dunk, not to go deep. Give him some time (A rollout or 10 perhaps). Give him some 1st string reps (Nope 1 week isn't enough). Give him a running game to keep the D line off of him. Let him throw a dozen medium/deep balls in game situations. Then you can decide if he can or can't throw them. Marve is an inexperienced QB, playing in a system that's designed for a pocket passer, that doesn't take advantage of his strengths, that doesn't establish the run, that expects him to complete a high % of short passes, on a team that folds when he makes any mistakes. I can't think of a single advantage that Marve has in our offence.