TBURGESS

We didn't, so having the US below us doesn't mean squat. We could have emulated Australia or New Zealand or any other country that locked down tight for long enough. Heck, we could have emulated Japan and made sure that everyone wore masks, stayed 1 meter apart, made businesses install forehead heat sensors at their doors and not let anyone in who ran a temp. It worked for them. Instead, we let the politicians make wrong decision after wrong decision. Open up, close down, open up, close down. Call non-essential businesses essential. Let folks walk around without masks, instead of no mask, here's your ticket. Let religious gatherings happen without any repercussions. In Alberta, we even went as far as to ticket people and throw one or two of them in jail, only to let them go without even paying a fine. They're now talking about spending millions of dollars on advertising to get people to get the vaccines instead of no vaccine, no entry. They don't even want people to have to have vaccine cards to prove they've been vaccinated in case it stigmatizes those who choose not to. All this means we don't get back to normal, likely for years.

Sure you can find Trump-idots in Canada, but they aren't the ones who are making policy. Just watching the US response under Trump should have shown us that it wasn't working. We are a different country. We don't have to follow their lead. In fact it's better if we don't. I agree that Vaccines likely won't eradicate the disease because it will keep mutating and because some folks won't get the vaccine. People's stupidity is always baffling to me.

Your blaming the Cov-idiots in the US for Canada's response? Nope, this one is all on our own politicians. I'm sure our Dr's and scientists told our government the same things that New Zealand and Australia's governments were told. Their reaction was significantly different and so are the results.

When it comes on top of the 20+% cut they already had to take.

Stadiums are way down the list in terms of CFL problems. Teams don't build stadium's anyway and governments aren't going to build them, especially in Alberta right now. No one is building a new stadium unless/until the CFL gets back on its feet. Profit sharing? Take money away from the well run teams, make them less profitable and give it to the badly run teams to reduce/eliminate their losses. That's the opposite of being competitive with each other. Competition is what's needed, not profit sharing. The CFL needs more fans in the stands and no, that doesn't mean cheaper tickets, especially for teams that are just barely hanging on as it is. The CFL is focusing on the wrong things. International players don't put fans in the stands. Tons of player turnover doesn't put fans in the stands. Changing the rules yearly doesn't put fans in the stands. Talking with the XFL doesn't put fans in the stands. A better product would help putting fans in the stands. Better players can be done by reducing the ratio which would reduce costs too. (Would you rather reduce the costs and keep the Canadian game or merge with the XFL and lose it?) Grass roots support needs to happen and to start right away, but it will take a long time and I don't know if we have a long time. Injection of capital? That's what the XFL, the ask for Government money and the ill fated US expansion from years ago are about. Make the at game experience better? How? Mardi Gras night? Cheaper beer? (Selling more beer at a lessor price is like selling more tickets at a lessor price to try to come out ahead) Better half time entertainment? (Not much of a selling point) More hot chocolate during cold games? The big question is the CFL losing fans in the first place? Partly because the CFL isn't the best players in the world playing against each other. That's the NFL. The CFL isn't even the second best players in the world playing against each other because of the ratio and the number of NFL players being paid not to play. Nothing we can do about that. Partly because the CFL ignored young fans for 30 or more years. Can't do anything about that either, but they can increase the grass roots engagement going forward. Partly it's that there are too few teams playing each other to many times each year. The average fan doesn't want to see the same two teams play each other 3 or sometimes 4 times in the same year, plus playoffs. Increasing the number of teams is the right answer, but it's unlikely to impossible in the current climate. That leaves reducing the number of games each season from 18 to 16. Partly it's because the CFL play 18 games to eliminate 3 teams. Change the playoff structure so the top team gets a bye, then 2 plays 5 and 3 plays 4 to eliminate an additional team. Quite frankly, if your team can't win half their regular season games, they shouldn't be in the playoffs anyway. Partly it's because the CFL relies on rich folks who don't mind losing money most years to run a local football team. Those folks are few and far between and a lot of them don't last for very long. For every caretaker Bob, there are a bunch of Bernie Glieberman's. Unless the find a way for CFL teams to consistently make money, this isn't going to change. There's no one right answer. It's a bunch of things that have been festering for years and that have been brought to a head by the pandemic.

Teams are losing money so they should drop the ticket prices? Nope. Just Nope. You can't sell that to owners. 3 downs is the reason people go to games? Nope. They go to see their home town team, hopefully beat the other team. They go because their parents take them as kids. They go because it's a great night out. They go because they love live sports. Fans will stop going if they change the rules? A few. Most will complain and still go. Kids love Madden because it's 4 downs? Nope. They play Madden because it's THE football game game. If THE football game game was CFL, they'd play that, but of course that will never happen. The League has ignored each new generation for 30 years or more. They needed a plan to keep fans for at least that long. Take a good look around the stadiums and you'll see that the age of the fans is really old. They are literally dying off. I'm in my 60's and I'm a youngster when I go. When I was a kid, the Bombers sent a player or two to one of my practices each year. They had our team play some football at half time. They gave the whole team end zone tickets. They allowed us on the field at the end of the games, where we patted the players on the back and tried to get them to give us their chin straps. We threw a football around and pretended we were them. Great memories created great fans. Sals sold cheap endzone tickets. In high school, everyone on the football team and a lot of others bought them. It was a great day for me when I could take my Dad to a game instead of the other way around. That's what the CFL used to do. That's what they need to do again if they want to build young fans to keep their business viable, but it's long term thinking and companies don't think that way any more. They just plan for the current year and ignore the long term, expecting it to take care of itself. At some point, the reckoning happens. Companies then get bailed out, taken over, or shut down. It looks like that's where we are now.

Can and will are two completely different things.

Loans become handouts when those who receive them can't or won't pay them back. Assuming that the CFL is in financial trouble, which is a good assumption IMO, they won't pay the loan back and it will eventually be 'forgiven' because the Feds don't want to be a reason that the CFL goes under. Most folks vote the party, not based on any specific policy. Even if a CFL loan is popular, it in itself, won't be enough to flip peoples votes to Liberal, which means it's not that big a deal to the Liberals. Most Federal elections are already decided by the time they make it to the Manitoba/Saskatchewan boarder anyway. The CFL was told to include the CFLPA and come back with a plan. I thought they already did that a few months back. I remain unconvinced that the Liberals will bail out the CFL.

I doubt the Feds are going to save our CFL. They would have given us money early on if they were going to. The XFL talks are about getting the needed funding from the Rock and his group. Without funding, the CFL will likely die. I get that us CFL fans want the game to remain the same, but the XFL isn't going to give the CFL many concessions, if they bring the money, they make the rules. The CFL will be negotiating about what they are allowed to keep from the Canadian game, not about what the XFL will have to change in their rules. Americans always believe there way is the right way and the XFL will be no exception. They're going to want 4 downs, 11 men, US sized fields, etc. They know that's the way to interest the American fan and there are 10 times as many of them as there are CFL fans. Without enough of those fans on board, the XFL/CFL merger will die no matter how much money the owners have.

If that's what it takes to save the CFL, then I do.

The ratio can't exist with US teams. That doesn't mean that Canadians can't play in the US, it just means that x number of jobs won't be given to Canadians, they will be given to the best available players. Those who are saying that removal of the Canadian ratio means losing a lot of fans are wrong IMO. Some folks will stop watching for a game or two. Some will stop watching forever, but not many. Most will complain then watch anyway. I'm old enough to remember the US expansion. I was mighty pissed that the US teams didn't have the ratio. I still watched every game and went to the Grey Cups each year. When baseball had its strike, I stopped watching baseball and haven't ever gone back. When the Jets left Winnipeg, I stopped watching hockey and never went back, except for a few playoff games a year and the Olympics. I don't have cable any more. I have an android box that puts out 4K to HDMI. Add in a HD antenna and TSN's streaming during CFL/NFL season and I've got everything I had with cable for $20 a month. (FTR:My Internet is $60/month @300) My ROI was less than 2 months.

IF this is an 'expansion' then the ratio will have to go, just like it did during the US expansion all those years ago. The US labour laws won't accept X number of foreigners. Canadian teams with ratio rules would be at a huge disadvantage, so the ratio would have to go in Canada too. Field size isn't as big a deal to me as it is to many others. If the US stadiums can't fit a CFL sized field, then that would be something I'd be willing to give up to save the CFL. I wouldn't even care if different fields were different sizes. Basically, as close to the CFL size as possible and I'm happy. What I don't want to give up is the 3 downs for 10 yards, the 2 point conversions, the 'halo' instead of the 'wave the arms, don't hit me', the Kick Off rules, etc. Those are the things that make the CFL different and special to me.

He's definitely been a disaster on the business side of the business, but he did fix the rules side early on, so he's not a complete disaster.

My first reaction was What the F???? My second reaction was WHY? IF... It just means cross promotion, then this is much ado about nothing. IF... It means CFL rules played in both countries, then I'm for it. I don't care about field size. I know it would mean killing the ratio, but it's not the passports that matter, it's the rules. IF... It means 4 down, NFL rules in both countries, then I'd rather let the CFL die.

Objectively, the Riders were better than us in the 2019 regular season. Best team in the West and a play or two away from going to the Grey Cup. They weren't a terrible team and they didn't suck. That's just the story a few regular posters want to tell every year.

CFL 2021 Grey Cup odds Team Odds to win the Grey Cup (as of Feb 20) Hamilton Tiger-Cats +328 Saskatchewan Roughriders +446 Winnipeg Blue Bombers +502 Calgary Stampeders +503 Toronto Argonauts +637 B.C. Lions +900 Montreal Alouettes +900 Edmonton Football Team +1,000 Ottawa Redblacks +1,000 Odds courtesy of Sports Interaction Actually Hamilton and Riders, but I prefer Odds shark's take anyway: Who will win the 2021 Grey Cup? CFL Grey Cup Odds 2021 Team Odds Hamilton Tiger-Cats +300 Winnipeg Blue Bombers +450 Calgary Stampeders +500 Saskatchewan Roughriders +500 Toronto Argonauts +800 British Columbia Lions +850 Edmonton +900 Montreal Alouettes +900 Ottawa Redblacks +1400

Yes, the NFL and the premier league for that matter, makes and spends a ton of money. More than the CFL could ever hope for. That in itself doesn't make the NFL a bad comparison. Lets not pretend that any league that doesn't play football is a better comparison. The NFL had a season. They spent what was needed to 'protect' their players. The CFL can't afford to do that. They need the players and the fans to be vaccinated and the vaccination needs to work on multiple versions of Covid. I read that every team in the CFL lost $1 Million+ last year by not having a season. They chose that route rather than having a season and losing even more money per team. Another $1 Million loss per team would likely kill the league as the owners will shut them down instead of taking more losses. Owners need the probability of making money or at least breaking even to continue in the business. The Bell bailout was a stupid use of government money IMO. Bailing out other companies without strings attached would be equally stupid. Hopefully they have learned their lesson because they are making Air Canada pay people back for the flights that were cancelled. There was no federal money for a Winnipeg bubble. Don't expect there to be much, if any, to save our league.

The CFL's size isn't a plus or a minus. The TV money pays for the players salaries. The NFL played last year, so it's not a 'it can't be done excuse'. The NFL is THE comparison. Covid is the biggest problem with money as a close second. The CFL doesn't have the money or the top end management teams that NFL or the Premier leagues have. The CFL dropped the ball by going to the government, hat in hand, asking for money without a justifying the amount or having the players on board. It wasn't surprising that they were turned down. The first and second rounds of government money have been given out, which makes it much harder to get federal money now. I doubt that the liberals care much about saving the CFL, so they are going to have to save themselves IMO. On the good news front, Alberta says that everyone who wants a vaccine will be able to get one by the end of June. With the 45 days between vaccinations, that means mid-August should see most people ready to get back to the stadiums in Alberta. If the non-vaccinated folks choose to go to games and get sick, it's on them.

No, but they are the best comparison. Pro football to pro football.

Wrong! I ignored fanboy on Feb 10. I actually I gave him a HaHa. It should have been over then.

It sure is, but flexyboy started it back up again.

So you're admitting we weren't a dominate team. Congrats! That's the first step.

Ambrosie doesn't want to talk about the 2021 season. There is no downside to publicizing the plan, assuming there is one. There is a downside to not publicizing the plan IE: If you don't tell people what is going to happen, they will make up their own stories and those stories are likely to be worse than the real story. We aren't the only ones talking about it. Pedersen says: If he's right, the schedule we have isn't going to happen.

They don't even need a best case scenario plan, just a worst case. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.