TBURGESS

It's naive to think that the pandemic will be over in a couple of months and even more naive to think that the CFL can make any money with 5-10K fans in the stands (Ask Toronto how well it works).

If the players think they can still get their full salary while playing less than half the games, they're nuts.

The CFL Players’ Association COVID-19 season survey - https://3downnation.com/2020/06/16/the-cfl-players-association-covid-19-season-survey/amp/?__twitter_impression=true Some interesting questions being asked in this one. CFLPA files grievance, prepares for CBA negotiations: memo - https://3downnation.com/2020/06/16/cflpa-files-grievance-prepares-for-cba-negotiations-memo/ We live in interesting times.

I think I'll send in a tape where I do play by play in an Eeyore voice. I'd still be better than Rod Black.

You finally provided the 'Close prolonged contact' Dr. Not sure why it took days, but thanks. I was unfamiliar with the term because neither Dr. Hinshaw, the Alberta Chief Medical Officer nor Dr. Bonnie Henry, the BC health officer use that term and I don't read much MB news. From the first article I googled: "Remember that this virus is spread through close prolonged contact, coming within one to two metres of an infected individual,” said Dr. Roussin. The distance is also on the CDC site. According to the CDC: The definition of “prolonged exposure” was extended to refer to a time period of 15 or more minutes. So now we have a definition that we can both agree on: Close prolonged contact means 2 meters for 15 or more minutes. Training camp is 24/7 living together and players will be within 2 meters of each other for more than 15 minutes every day during training camp. This isn't about 'how things may progress'. We agree, assuming there is a season, that TC will open. You seem to be assuming that quarantine will be close to perfect so no one will get Covid. I'm assuming that at least one imperfect person will get it and spread it because that's what has happened in my personal experience and it's what happened in the German soccer league (Which is as close to the CFL situation as possible). I'm not solely basing my opinions on one or two agencies. I've read tons of articles on Covid-19 from various sources. It's interesting to see how things change throughout the pandemic and how much good and bad information is floating out there. It's also interesting to see how the story changes depending on what the Governments want people to do. When they wanted everyone to stay home, the doom and gloom articles came out. When they want everyone back to work, the everything's OK, it's harder to get than we thought, articles come out. Neither of us is going to change the other's mind. I'm sure that everyone would like it if we just stopped arguing, so I'm done.

We've both made our minds up. You're basing your opinion on a Dr. who suspiciously has something to sell that addresses the issue. I'm basing my opinion on the CDC and the Mayo clinic who have nothing to sell to address the issue. Training camps will start up because Politician's do what's popular rather than follow the science. The CFL and the CFLPA will find people who agree because they need the season to start to make any money from football this year. They'll choose to ignore what doesn't work for them. The teams will have the players sign off going back to work and will get the players to sign a daily waiver to say they aren't infected so they can't sue. I asked for where you were getting your info from. You replied with the 3rd down article. I accepted it even though it doesn't speak about "close prolonged contact" and noted that 24/7 is close prolonged contact anyway. Now you're saying there's more in depth info elsewhere without providing any sources. I never suggested that the world isn't going to open up again. Of course it will.

Thanks for quoting the 3rd down nation article. A quick google search shows that Dr Steinman is involved with Questcap, who has developed an unreviewed Covid-19 antibody test that by their own announcement "Results from antibody testing should not be used as the sole basis to diagnose or exclude SARS-CoV-2 infection or to inform infection status". Antibodies are present if you've had Covid-19 or Cov-2. That doesn't mean you are immune to the disease. Isn't putting everyone together in one place 24 hours a day the very definition of "Close prolonged contact"? The whole idea of a training camp is to prepare for the season, so everyone is by default talking about what would happen in the regular season.

Extended care homes and training camps are both places where you put a bunch of people together and take care of them through outside people. In my example, all staff wear PPE and take the necessary precautions. If anything, they have to be even more careful than people taking care of professional athletes because messing up can have way worse consequences. You can do anything other than the physical stuff from home, over the internet. Same goes for anything a coach can write on a white board or a blackboard. Players can do as many mental reps as they want to without actually being there. Players can work out at home. The physical stuff that involves other players is the only thing that they need to be at the facility for. The less interaction with other people the better it is for everyone. I've never heard the MB health dude and that's a pretty poor descriptor anyway. Considering you keep replying to me, I'd guess you really don't have anything better to do. Optimism doesn't mean anything when it comes to a pandemic, neither does being a problem solver or an engineer. Just a bunch of red herrings. Excessive touching is now what you want me to believe? (I think your serious so I'll laugh even harder) When you arrive 2 weeks prior to camp and you are tested, that just means you don't have Covid-19 on that day. 2 weeks of perfect self quarantine mean you most likely still don't have it, but there are no guarantee. You want me to also believe that every player, coach and support staff will also follow perfect quarantine protocol. That's what has to happen before no one inside can give or get the virus. Now add in all the folks who come and go as they please, and the idea that no one could possibly get the virus goes out the window. Look at the German soccer league who quarantined and then played in front of an empty stadium. 2 of their players tested positive in the first weekend of play, proving that quarantining teams together isn't so perfect after all. I'm not afraid of getting the virus. I do all the grocery shopping for the family because I'm the one who is at the least risk. I'm in my 60's so my chance of dying is greater than 20 and 30 somethings, but I'm not worried about dying if I do get the virus because the odds are still over 95% that I'll survive. My fear is that I get the virus and pass it along to someone who can't handle it, like one of my 90+ year old in laws or my wife who is immunosuppressed. I take the proper precautions. That's what any thinking adult should do. Wear a mask. Not only to protect yourself but to protect others in case you're sick and you don't even know it. Players and coaches and all the support staff should wear masks to, for the same reasons. They aren't facing known cases of Covid-19 on a daily basis like front line so I don't think they should wear full PPE, although the Dr's and training staff probably should and will. If covidiot's were only putting their selves at risk, then it wouldn't matter to me, but they're putting other people at greater risk without giving them a second thought. Who cares of someone elses parent or grandparent dies. I want to go out and get my hair cut, have a few drinks, and watch a football game.

I'm suggesting that you're not reading what I'm typing. If you were, you'd acknowledge that it's not just about the players going out into the world. It's also about all the staff and their families and everyone they contact. Maybe you;re just ignoring everything that doesn't work for your "argument". No, I've never been in a pro camp and no, that doesn't matter one little bit. Re-read my first paragraph if you still don't get it. Still no source for your prolonged contact idea? No, you don't have to have prolonged exposure to an infected person with the virus spewing out of their mouth onto you. You can pick it up from hard surfaces up to 3 days after it lands there. From the article I linked to: "individual or group activities that have close prolonged face-to-face contact such as football are higher risk", so no, football players don't have less of a chance of infection. They have a greater chance. Do I think a football player would answer his questionnaire incorrectly so he could practice with his team? You bet I do. As you say, they are chomping at the bit. I also know that you can be asymptomatic and still pass the virus on to others. Let me tell you a bit about my own health questionnaire experience. My in laws are 90 & 93. They live at a very good long term health facility here in Calgary (They're the only reason we moved back here from Vancouver). At the beginning of the pandemic, they made everyone going into the building, including staff, fill out a Covid-19 questionnaire. Then they gave you a sticker saying "I've been tested" that you had to wear to move around the building. After the first Covid-19 outbreak, they added a temperature test to make sure you weren't running a fever. Then they stopped all visits to residents except for end of life situations, confined all residents to their rooms, stopped all the activities like the gym and movie nights and started delivering meals directly to the rooms. That looked like it had worked as planned for a couple of weeks as no new cases showed up. Then came the second Covid-19 outbreak while visits were cancelled and residents were confined to their rooms. The only way that could happen is if someone brought it in from the outside and either lied on their questionnaire so they could still get paid or was asymptomatic. As for my game story. Of course it's dumb. It was meant to be tongue in cheek and sarcastic. Sorry you didn't pick up on that.

Manitoba allows Bombers to resume training, practising amid COVID-19 pandemic .... The following guidelines should be followed: • Continue to offer virtual instruction or training where possible • Individuals must use the self-screening tool before reporting to work and should stay home when ill • Individuals must be screened for symptoms prior to participation each day of the activity, and are not allowed to participate if they are ill with COVID-19 symptoms • If indoors, hand hygiene stations should be placed at the entrance and strategically throughout the facility • Shared equipment must be cleaned frequently. This can be done by participants, but staff should ensure this is being done regularly • Individuals are given information on social distancing. Indoor facilities must post signs indicating physical distancing guidelines • Ensure enhanced cleaning of indoor facilities, particularly washrooms • Encouraging individuals to shower at home and limit use of locker area • Removing any common use items from locker rooms • Posting signage for guidance on shower area use to maintain physical distancing • If locker rooms are used, consider modifying their use in order to maintain physical distancing • As well, a disinfectant spray or wipes should be available for participants to disinfect locker contact surfaces before and after use • Enhanced and frequent cleaning and disinfection of locker rooms will be required • Areas of congregation (e.g. team benches, pool edges) will require creative solutions to adhere to physical distancing guidelines. This can be done in consultation with provincial and national sport-specific COVID-19 guidance, where applicable .... The Bombers released a team statement following the announcement from the province: “We are encouraged by today’s news that professional sports facilities are permitted to reopen in MB as per guidance and direction of public health officials. We will however wait for final confirmation from CFL to allow teams to open their facilities.”

So much misinformation. Being covid free when you test, doesn't mean being covid free forever. You're not cleared as covid free. Every time you go out, or your family goes out, or anyone you come in contact with goes out, you can catch it. Even if the players were in lock down, the cleaning staff, the food services staff, the laundry staff, the equipment staff, the coaches, the assistants, etc. won't be locked down. Any one of them could bring covid into the quarantine zone. That's how covid got into care homes. Putting a lot of people together is how "super-spreading events" or disease clusters happen. It's how how covid spread in the Alberta meat processing industry and how it would spread if anyone brought it in from the outside in the CFL. In that case the whole team would have to go back into 14 day self isolation and give up 2 games in the process. Covid-19 is not transmitted through "prolonged physical contact". The CDC's site says: "The virus that causes COVID-19 is thought to spread mainly from person to person, mainly through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes. These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs. Spread is more likely when people are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet)." The Mayo Clinic and Web MD agree with the CDC and add a bunch of other useful information about spreading Covid. None of them talk about so called 'prolonged physical contact" In football, all the players are within 6 feet of one another for most of the game and I'd argue that 3 or 4 hours is prolonged exposure anyway. Covid-19 is floating out there. It's also on surfaces where it can live for up to 3 days. No, it's not 'looking for hosts' because it can't look for anything. It is waiting for hosts to come in contact with it. It will then infect them and no it doesn't matter if you're young or fit. Covid doesn't 'know' any of that. Young folks do have the highest survival rate. Because they can fight the virus, they are more likely to continue to work when they are infected, which in turn makes it more likely that they can pass it on to others who don't have as high a survival rate. Football players aren't like store clerks. They can't hide behind Plexiglas partitions. The can't social distance. They can't just walk quickly by other people and turn their heads away. Players are constantly in very close contact with other players. Therefore, players should wear masks at all times and no, not the crappy home made ones that only stop 5% of the transmission. The professional grade ones that stop 95% of the transmission.

Lets actually be honest. No blocking. No tackling. DB's must stay 2 meters away from receivers at all times. Same holds true for LB's and RB's, well everyone for that matter, so it's 2 yards between the OL and the DL. All players must stay 1 meter apart at all times, including meetings, huddles, and all other teaching. That's just at practice. In an actual game, there is no way to play football if the players have to social distance. QB drops back to pass. No one can get within a meter of him or tackle him. He throws to a receiver who is at least a meter away from the nearest DB. As long as he catches the ball, it's a TD because no one is allowed to tackle him or, just hand it off to the RB that no one can touch. TD on every play, but wait... No offence needed because all Kick offs would be returned for a TD or kicked out of bounds, which would result in a re-kick.

I suspect it covers contract employee's, but don't know for sure. My point is that CFL players should get what other Canadian employee's get, not a penny less or a penny more. The Americans get the US payment and I'd be happy if the Government changed it so they could also get half the CERB.

CERB gives employee's $2K per month for up to 4 months. The Canadian players should be eligible for that. American players are in Canada, paying taxes for half the year, maybe they should be eligible for $1K per month for up to 4 months. Offering the league minimum would be way more than other workers in Canada are getting for not working.

That's a horrible way to negotiate. Never go in with a number you can't justify. If you do, you get the other sides backs up and it makes it harder, if not impossible, to come to an agreement.

The PPV idea is fatally flawed. TSN makes it's money selling ads. The more people who watch the games, the more those ads cost. PPV greatly reduces the number of folks who watch, which in turn, greatly reduces the amount TSN can charge and bring in. They'd be better off putting all the games on TV and giving the CFL the contracted amount of money for the number of games televised.

Here you go again. Continuing to pretend that I said something I didn't, even after being corrected then calling it stupid. Adding in the 'you hate everything the Bombers do' whine is another part of your shtick. Neither are true, but the things you make up give you the excuse to 'call me out' pretty much every time I post. If you could just learn to ignore my posts, everyone would be happier.

The thread wasn't derailed. It had already gone to Simonise and if he'd had a fair chance or not. Just GN20 miss reading one of my posts again then whining about it. It's kinda his shtick.

It didn't suggest that to anyone who can comprehend simple sentence structure. It started with "The guys who were shamelessly pumping Simonise's tires want to believe they were right about him...". If you're not one of those guys, then it's not about you and it's certainly not suggesting anything like what you're saying it did. You love to 'read into' what's being said, get it wrong, then whine about it.

My comment was about those who were pumping Simonise's tires. If you could just ignore the comments that aren't about you... that'd be great. Simonise got all the chances he deserved and did nothing with them. We had better Canuck receivers so we cut him. It's just football.

The guys who were shamelessly pumping Simonise's tires want to believe they were right about him, so the story becomes 'he wasn't given a chance'. It's easier than admitting they were wrong in the first place.

The Feds are printing more money daily in an effort to keep our economy running during the pandemic. Every few days there's another announcement of another industry that's getting federal money to survive. The CFL is no different than any other industry. They have their hands out asking for federal money to survive, but they are a long way down the list. I can't imagine the Feds giving the CFL $150,000,000. I don't believe that the overhead of not running a season is that much either. They will probably agree on a number that's significantly lower that keeps the CFL on life support.

On my first day of Contract Law class, we were told that one party makes the contract and the other party gets to interpret that contract. If there is more than one way to interpret the clause, then it's the fault of whoever wrote the contract. In this case, I can see why the CFLPA is interpreting 'The CFL is suspended' to mean suspended as suspended instead of the league folding completely. The wording will change in CFL contracts going forward. The question becomes 'What do they do now'? I don't think either side wants all player contracts to be torn up and all players to become free agents. Giving in on NFL dreams for a few players is the path of least resistance.

No chance of a CFL season until the borders are re-opened and the social distancing rules eliminated. No borders = No Imports. Social Distancing = No fans in the stands.