JuranBoldenRules

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon.Actually, I'm arguing that Marve looks like an inexperienced QB, he's not getting much/any help from his OC and fans expectations are way too high.Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started. It could be that the OC doesn't think he can complete them or that the O line can't give him protection, but it's more likely that's just that's the way MB's offense works. There's no way for you to know what the reads are in any given play. That's a junk argument.In other posts you are slamming MB for shoehorning Marve into an offense built for Willy, an offense that was among the league leaders in long passing plays. Which is it? If the long ball isn't the first read, Marve isn't going to take it. Willy's a better QB and a pocket passer who gets to his 2nd maybe even 3rd read. That's the idea, not that I know what the reads are on any given play. Here's exactly what you typed, indicating your knowledge of the playcalls and what Marve's first read is: "Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started." FYI, the deepest receiver in a route is almost always the first read because of the time it takes to set to make that throw and get the ball there, even if that receiver is running a clearing route. If the defense is giving a free deep ball away, a QB will always take it. Marve was likely progressing through his reads, he certainly had a good amount of time on the majority of the passing plays, just too spooked to make a tough throw. He indicated that post-game with CJOB, that he needs to have more confidence in his first read. I disagree that the deepest receiver is almost always the first read. It certainly wasn't when I played way back in the dark ages. Sometimes the deep receiver is the primary. Sometimes one of the other receivers is the primary. Lots of the time the deep receiver is simply clearing for the guys underneath. That doesn't make him the primary receiver or the first read. Time in the pocket doesn't equal progressing through his reads. Too spooked to make the tough throw? How do you get that? Marve's got tons of confidence, probably more than he should have. He tried to throw into double coverage and tried to throw one across his body for god's sake. I didn't hear the CJOB post game show, so I'll take your word for it, but as I've said before, the first read isn't always the deep ball. Generally the only time the deepest guy in a route, the 2-3 guys that the QB is reading first, not every eligible, is not the first read is if you are running quick game. The only route the Bombers showed that remotely fit into that category were the 3 curls to the strong-side where Marve simply looked to his right (strong each time they ran it) and fired to the guy who was open. First time was a 8 yard gain to Gordon, second time was a Calgary TD. Highly unlikely that they'd run quick game with Marve because he doesn't get the ball out quick and trusting him to make pre-snap reads is just too much to expect from him.

You've seen it? I haven't. They both leave a lot to be desired arm-wise.

Yet he's still far better than Brohm. That might be the scariest part about all of this. Brohm isn't a solution to any of our problems, but him and Marve are two sides of the same shitty coin.

Import offensive tackle is another brutal spot. Daniels is average, Tyler horrible, Lewis couldn't even get into a game.

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon.Actually, I'm arguing that Marve looks like an inexperienced QB, he's not getting much/any help from his OC and fans expectations are way too high.Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started. It could be that the OC doesn't think he can complete them or that the O line can't give him protection, but it's more likely that's just that's the way MB's offense works. There's no way for you to know what the reads are in any given play. That's a junk argument.In other posts you are slamming MB for shoehorning Marve into an offense built for Willy, an offense that was among the league leaders in long passing plays. Which is it? If the long ball isn't the first read, Marve isn't going to take it. Willy's a better QB and a pocket passer who gets to his 2nd maybe even 3rd read. That's the idea, not that I know what the reads are on any given play. Here's exactly what you typed, indicating your knowledge of the playcalls and what Marve's first read is: "Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started." FYI, the deepest receiver in a route is almost always the first read because of the time it takes to set to make that throw and get the ball there, even if that receiver is running a clearing route. If the defense is giving a free deep ball away, a QB will always take it. Marve was likely progressing through his reads, he certainly had a good amount of time on the majority of the passing plays, just too spooked to make a tough throw. He indicated that post-game with CJOB, that he needs to have more confidence in his first read.

Honestly, Hurl wasn't good for the first game or 2 but he's been better recently, I think peoples expectations for him are too high, he's not the bighill or elomimian type, he's not the henoc type, If you actually watch him on the field, he's generally rushing the QB, It's how Hall is using him, he's not using him as what people would think of as your protypial MLB, he's using him more as a cowboy i suppose, a rover really, he's being used differently than how other MLB's are used, It's more scheme there, I don't think he's been that bad the last couple weeks. I'm honestly finding it hard to criticize the D when the O is last in the league in basically every category. I don't think using tackles is fair here... it's just a stat really. I'm not saying HURL is all world or anything but he's definitely not as bad as some people are making him out to be. He has a role and his role is different than that of your average MLB'r. I have been keeping an eye on Hurl for the last few games now and I can say with confidence that yes he has been that bad. If you’re a MLB and you’re a rover, you should be making a lot more happen than he is. The guy is almost never in the play. He constantly over shoots plays or is just nowhere to be found. Some times the amount of tackles a LB gets in a game can be inflated and that’s why it’s not always the best way to assess a player, but that’s not the case here. In this case he’s not getting any tackles to inflate. Nobody in the front 6 is a rover. Hurl is almost always taking one of the three inside gaps in their base "Cowboy" defense. Google "Gap Control." It's not 1985. MLB's don't chase the ball around the field.

You're arguing the extreme of the other position and using the exception to prove the rule. Outside of the pass and run to Marshall vs Toronto, Marve has 3 passes over 10 yards in the last two games, with his longest being 19. You're right, he should be allowed to make mistakes sometimes and occasionally throw into double coverage, but he should also sometimes show he can throw a deep ball (20+ yards) and so far he hasn't. Like 17to85 said, he needs to show that soon. Actually, I'm arguing that Marve looks like an inexperienced QB, he's not getting much/any help from his OC and fans expectations are way too high.Marve isn't going to throw a deep ball unless it's called for him by the OC and it's his first read. There have been very few of them called in the 2 games that Marve has started. It could be that the OC doesn't think he can complete them or that the O line can't give him protection, but it's more likely that's just that's the way MB's offense works. There's no way for you to know what the reads are in any given play. That's a junk argument.In other posts you are slamming MB for shoehorning Marve into an offense built for Willy, an offense that was among the league leaders in long passing plays. Which is it?

Do we really though? I think so. Look at our Canadian depth compared to the Mack and even the Taman regimes and you'll see its much improved. Sure we don't have any superstars anymore like Doug or Henoc, but we have a lot more guys who are capable and can contribute as starters or at least as rotational players. Most of that is having a coach who is willing to play Canadians. Berry and Burke absolutely were playing their 7 best and nobody else on O or D. That's why we were always hooped with a single injury. Lapolice was a little more in the middle but still loathe to use Canadians on D as role players.

Reminiscent of the late 90s when both franchises were in shambles on and off the field. At least the players know they will be getting paid now.

Pro style offences at both colleges he played for, which means a fair amount of throwing from the pocket. He was a 4 star rated top 10 QB in his class but never fit the bill in NCAA, struggled pretty much his entire career as a passer back through college other than a handful of games against really bad teams as a senior. 200 yards rushing on 150 carries, granted the NCAA counts sacks in QB rushing stats, but still not the numbers of a running QB. Lost his starting spot in Miami, lost it at Purdue, both due to on the field and off the field struggles. Doesn't scream QB of the future to me based on his past or present, guess we'll see how he does in Regina.

This is hopeful, but Walker has a long history of being a terrible receiver in this league. Where's the "Fire Walters" thread?

Different schemes would make a difference though. Only if you bring in Paul Johnson and the triple option. Marve can't pass, probably can't throw either, Brohm can't throw for sure. Good luck. lol, you are shoveling it on a little thick there chachi. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=robert+marve+highlights&qpvt=robert+marve+highlights&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=9ACED657D3397B5BCDA09ACED657D3397B5BCDA0 A couple nice scrambles there. Too bad everyone clued in on that. Even in that game his longest completion was 18 to Kohlert. He needs to make someone respect his arm, because no one does and the offense isn't going anywhere with him until they do. He's thrown almost 80 passes in the CFL and hasn't completed one in the air for 20+ yards. That's incredible and not in a positive way. When do we get to see the "strong arm?" And how many deep balls has Willy hit? You actually need time for those deep routes to develop, 2 steam boats isn't long enough. There were only a couple snaps in the entire game vs Calgary where Marve didn't have a suitable amount of time. They rushed 3-4 the majority of the Bombers pass plays. The biggest problem in terms of "steamboats" is Marve's lack of pocket presence leading him to panic and get stuck as the pocket closed in on him due to the disciplined rush of the Stamps not giving him any exit lanes from the pocket. Willy has hit a ton of long balls this season. A month ago the silly mob was criticizing him for looking to go deep too often.

Who of those 3 is covering a slotback? Bass or Wild. I don't know if Simmons has the speed. Neither do the other two. Randle isn't going anywhere, and even if he is you're still playing a DB in that spot.

Different schemes would make a difference though. Only if you bring in Paul Johnson and the triple option. Marve can't pass, probably can't throw either, Brohm can't throw for sure. Good luck. lol, you are shoveling it on a little thick there chachi. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=robert+marve+highlights&qpvt=robert+marve+highlights&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=9ACED657D3397B5BCDA09ACED657D3397B5BCDA0 A couple nice scrambles there. Too bad everyone clued in on that. Even in that game his longest completion was 18 to Kohlert. He needs to make someone respect his arm, because no one does and the offense isn't going anywhere with him until they do. He's thrown almost 80 passes in the CFL and hasn't completed one in the air for 20+ yards. That's incredible and not in a positive way. When do we get to see the "strong arm?"

Who of those 3 is covering a slotback?

From what you've seen with Marve, with coaching and reps, does he have the talent to be a legitimate CFL QB? Too soon to tell. He needs more game reps. But if we remember Reilly's first year with the Esks. Most wouldn't have expected much more out of him. Is this a joke? Reilly threw for 4000 yards that year. No...I don't think so. Reilly had some absolutely horrible games and he played behind a porous O-line. All I'm saying is that many on here are writing Marve off after 2 games. Its exactly this short sightedness by fans that makes it difficult to develop QB's. And yes I'm still not laughing. Seem hardly comparable to me. Like apples to the planet Mars.

Subway needs a pitchman.

From what you've seen with Marve, with coaching and reps, does he have the talent to be a legitimate CFL QB? Too soon to tell. He needs more game reps. But if we remember Reilly's first year with the Esks. Most wouldn't have expected much more out of him. Is this a joke? Reilly threw for 4000 yards that year.

From what you've seen with Marve, with coaching and reps, does he have the talent to be a legitimate CFL QB? Not so far. I would say he doesn't have the basic skillset that a good pro QB has, particularly as a passer which is the majority of the game for a QB and his inexperience just magnifies that. He's got a long way to climb to even be in the league of guys like Brink and Elliott.

Different schemes would make a difference though. Only if you bring in Paul Johnson and the triple option. Marve can't pass, probably can't throw either, Brohm can't throw for sure. Good luck.

Question is will they be able to afford Wild on the open market. It may take a little chop chop of vet salaries to make it happen. Willy's missing at least 1/3 of the season with that not counting against the cap. That's well over $100,000 right there. That's more than enough for Wild, that's $200,000 prorated if he signed this week.

I'm no fan of Bellefeuille, but it's ridiculous to think that someone else calling the plays is going to make a lick of difference with Marve or Brohm.

You take advantage of that by making throws from the pocket. At times Calgary had two backers spying/coming on delayed blitzes. That means there's a bunch of space in the middle of the field and deep when Calgary was having their safety fill in behind the backers. There were one on ones deep all day, Calgary had no respect for Marve's arm, and he gave them no reason to respect it. Until he can, there's not much you can call to make him look good, maybe some option runs. I may be wrong here, but to me it looked like Marve was told to stay in the pocket, and as a result he held onto the ball too long several times. If you're supposed to stay in the pocket, but get no time to throw or find second and third reads because the Oline is the shi...ts, then it stands to reason you are not going to look good. I couldn't believe the line on several of the plays, they looked awful. Our so called great signing from Calgary is not earning his $$. So who is that on? him alone or the blocking schemes? Probably a bit of both. Seems to me with our Oline, doesn't matter who the QB is...they are all not going to accomplish what they should, which is why we were still last in offence even with Willy healthy. Of course he looks better because he has a lot more experience, but if nothing changes, we will always be last in offence. He couldn't leave the pocket because of how Calgary's defense played him. As soon as he tried he had at least one linebacker running full speed at him from 3 yards depth. Calgary's ends also worked fully from the outside lane in to Marve, no inside pass rush moves, just disciplined and gradual work towards the QB pinning him in the pocket allowing that spying LB to clean up, other than the one time Bryant fell asleep before the snap and the one end ran right around the edge. That's why I spent two months telling you guys that a scrambling QB is the easiest type to defend if they can't do anything from the pocket. It's extremely easy to force a QB to stay in the pocket and very hard to counter that if that QB can't make a throw. Now you're seeing it. We're not last in offense with Willy. We're last in offense with everyone, Willy's only started and finished 4 games. Marve and Brohm have thrown 112 passes now to 156 for Willy.

You take advantage of that by making throws from the pocket. At times Calgary had two backers spying/coming on delayed blitzes. That means there's a bunch of space in the middle of the field and deep when Calgary was having their safety fill in behind the backers. There were one on ones deep all day, Calgary had no respect for Marve's arm, and he gave them no reason to respect it. Until he can, there's not much you can call to make him look good, maybe some option runs.

Marve's strength is rolling to his right and throwing. I haven't seen him do anything else well in terms of passing. When that's taken away, he's lost. And it's very easy to take away. That looping end or LB from the opposite side of the formation does it quite easily. If he can't make a throw from the pocket, he's useless in this league. One dimensional players can't play this game, it's just too easy to defend them. It's just going to get worse if he can't start to make some throws as teams will be hugging the line of scrimmage and taking away the run game entirely as well. My hope is that they move on relatively quickly if Marve doesn't show RAPID improvement the next couple weeks. There's an opportunity here to actually develop someone to be our backup, don't waste it on a guy who can't play at all.