17to85

I dunno something about this doesn't smell right. I'll believe there were people acting like *******, no question about it, you get enough people together in the same place there are going to be some arseholes no question, but a lot of this just seems absurd to the point where I question the story.

No one is complaining about the trade, everyone is unanimous that it was a great deal by Walters, what some people are arguing against is the smear campaign that has been going on against Drew Willy since game one.

and if he does look good in Toronto will you be eating a serving of humble pie?

We can? Thanks!

Oh come on, the list of players who will willingly re-structure a deal is miniscule. It's a cut throat business and guys are always one hit away from not being able to make that living anymore. Teams can cut players at the drop of a hat so that level or consideration is automatically out the window. I have no doubts Drew was a fine team mate through all of this because it's a small league, if there were problems we'd have heard about it. The fact that you have Barker and Milanovich lamenting that they had to give up a player they didn't really want to lose and a first round pick to get Willy indicates that this wasn't a trade for the sake of making a trade but it was getting a good payment for Willy. If the price wasn't there I don't think we'd be sitting here now talking about the Willy trade.

I would suggest message boards skew older than younger. It's old tech. The kids today are on twitters or whatever else they have.

I don't believe they were better off to be honest with you. At absolute worst Kevin Glenn and Willy as a saw off at backup qb, but Glenn could very well be superior. Then we added a db who is not too shabby as well which is also a good thing. Getting another first round pick helps the team stay good in the future because depth is the difference between winning seasons and losing seasons.

as a team collectively sure you bet, but you can look at each phase individually too and see what is working and what needs to be better and quite frankly the offense needs to be better. Let's not even talk point, let's talk putting drives together to keep the defense on the sidelines and not tempt fate by letting the other team have more chances with the ball. They do that and all of a sudden we don't need to watch sphincter clenching games that come down to a late mistake by the other team to pull out the win we'll be able to cruise and the only thing we'll have to complain about is the other team getting some garbage time points.

OK but the Bombers are winning by good defense and Nichols playing the ultra conservative Lapolice offence where you complete 5 passes and get 10 yards out of the deal... What's the real difference?

Jones with ******** gambles in both games against us both helping immensely to secure the wins for Winnipeg. How can the mob in Saskatchewan not all be against him for crap like that?

Man I want to see them all get into a game of one upsmanship for the INT lead on the year.

This is praise of Nichols that actually has merit. It's something that can be quite valuable too, I just find that a lot of people are glossing over some of the problems that he does have though trying to make him into something he isn't because of the win streak we are on.

The defense was improving before they made a change at quarterback. The changes on the DL (and they replaced 3/4 of the positions this year let us not forget) took time to come together as a group and getting Cole back healthy also helped, but in general the rookies at the 2nd DE spot took a few games to get into the swing of things, took the LBs a bit to get into their grooves playing new positions, some changes in the defensive secondary helped. Those guys were improving even before Willy went out too. They were great in the game Willy won against Hamilton and they were good in the game Willy lost against Edmonton too and have just kept getting better since. That's independent of what was happening at the quarterback position. The OL got better by Neufeld going out and the force to use 3 americans. Suddenly the team can run the ball, can convert when they hand off on 2nd and short and can protect the qb better. Willy had some confidence issues, but can you blame him? He never had a reliable run game to lean on or a reliable offensive line. You say the team lost confidence in Willy, I say Willy lost confidence in his team, both are probably true and justified, but confidence can come back when things change, I don't believe Willy was beyond hope and obviously Toronto doesn't either.

They also found and developed Harris and Collaros, and Ricky Ray is still a veteran quarterback who is going to be in the hall of fame, not exactly the dumbest move, especially when you consider they did try and keep Harris. If Milanovich sees something in Willy none of us should question it. In fact a good many people who know a thing or two about professional qbs see something in Willy.

Moral of the story, can't win consistently in the CFL without defense.

Or how about if he got to play with an OL that didn't have a break down at regular intervals his head wouldn't be an issue. There is a reason that Kyle Walters drafts offensive linemen every first round of the draft even if they aren't the best players on board. Because he knows that the OL is key and ever since they benched Willy and put in 3 americans this is the first time the team has actually had a good group. You see the difference in the run game, you see the difference in the teams confidence. Trenches are key, also why the D is better too, the DL has been improved bigtime and this is easily the best group Walters has put on the field for Winnipeg. You win and lose games in the trenches and it was the change at OL that had a bigger impact on the team than anything else. Willy and Nichols had pretty similar stats, but Willy dealt with a lot more **** and didn't have the benefit of a defense going +25 or something in the turnover battle. The one game his D did do that for him he won. Let's not ignore that. Some people though just like to look at wins and losse and assign it totally to the quarterback.

No, reasons not excuses, big difference.

Was their D really good though? Or was the Bombers O just bad? Cause the Riders D has been putrid all season. It's OK to admit that we stole a couple on LD and BB and we need to be better to beat teams that aren't **** tier.

How about just give a fair and impartial judgement? Some people though want to pin all the ills of a team on the qb when the reality is there are many other pieces that impact a team.

Only because the turnovers have been avoided. Against teams that aren't the Riders it'll take more than just a couple drives a game to win because no other team gives games away like the Riders do. Nichols should be scoring more points with the way the defense was taking balls away. I would rather have poor O and great D than the other way around but when your O is that impotent you are playing with fire and sooner or later the D won't be able to bail them out. Gotta score some points sometimes.

True but sometimes a streak is just a streak. Let's not pretend that ekeing out wins against the Riders is really acceptable. I mean that defense has been making teams look great all year and the Bombers had to fight tooth and nail to put drives together on them. That's a concern. Not like they beat a good team in tight games, it's the 1-10 Riders they barely hung on against.

I just want to know, how many qbs around the CFL would be losing games when the team over that stretch has taken away that many balls from the other team? QB gets too much blame and too much credit around these parts.

you already judged him

Some of those lack of INT numbers for Nichols are luck whether flat out dropped by dbs or taken away on cheap PI calls. He's done well for sure but people trot out 6-0 and the TD:INT ratio entirely too quickly without providing context.

The mistake was not protecting their Willy and getting it broken to the point where they had to trade him. They look to have learned that lesson with Nichols though. Imagine if they'd had this kind of offensive line when Willy first got here? None of those injuries, none of the constant beatings.