17to85

Defense was our strength but not a strength when compared to the other teams. We ranked 8th in most of the big stats. Comparing O'Shea (.333 wins) to Burke (.250 wins) isn't the comparison that we need to do. We need to compare O'Shea to the other HC's in the league right now and he doesn't fair well at all. That's a tired argument that I absolutely do not like. Statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is tantalizing but what they conceal is vital. Here's what I know from watching the games... there were a hell of a lot of games that were winnable with even an average offensive output, we didn't get that. We were lucky in a lot of games to even get a good quarter out of the O let alone a good game. It's the CFL afterall, sometimes you still have to be able to score your way out of trouble, our team failed to do that. The D wasn't perfect but it was good enough and if they can get some better DL I'd have no trouble seeing them get better without too much trouble.

I'd take Cortez with the game passing him by before Lapo who never had much game to start with.

The reality is that we hired inexperienced people so I am willing to give them a chance to learn on the job as long as they're not a complete clusterfuck (which they aren't) Yes I have more patience than you, but being impatient hasn't worked for 25 years why not try a different approach this time? I wasn't calling for O'Shea's or Walters heads at the end of last year because they were rookies who were learning on the job. (I didn't think they should have been hired in the first place, but that's another story.) They weren't rookies this year and they provided even worse results. Walters had a lot of good ideas. I like the way he revamped the scouting department and the way he hired more people, but he didn't staff it properly so it hasn't provided the results it should have. I like the idea of hiring more coaches, but I didn't like the choices. I like the idea of keeping our draft picks, but I don't like his drafting. I like that he's been busy in free agency and is willing to spend to get players to come to Winnipeg, but I don't like that he can't tell who's good and who's bad unless they've already played in the CFL (Ex: QB's/backup). Basically, I like the ideas but the execution isn't there. He's had 2.5 years to improve and I don't see much if any improvement. I liked O'Shea the player and O'Shea the special teams coach. I didn't like him as a rookie HC or as a sophomore for that matter. I think that 2 years is enough to figure out if he has it or not and he's come up way short. It shouldn't take total incompetence in all areas of the job to fire him. Missing the playoffs both years should be enough. This isn't the first time we've given a GM a 3rd year. Joe Mack was given 3 and a half. I remember arguing with you, 17, that he should be fired when we missed the playoffs in 2012. IIRC you said that we needed to bring him back for another year for consistency, so no, we aren't trying something new this time. Were doing what we usually do... Hiring inexperience and then keeping them too long when they aren't working out. The only thing we haven't done yet is extend a losing HC so they won't be a 'lame duck' then pay them to be a TSN coach instead of ours. That could still easily happen in the offseason. Look if Joe Mack hadn't give Tim Burke the head coaching duties he woulda been around a lot longer. O'Shea is a much better coach than Burke. Walters has his work cut out for him I've already said that, but there's really no harm in sticking with these guys for another year. A lot of the problems this past season stem from the offense and given that Willy was out most of the year and they've fired the offensive coordinator who is known to be less than stellar at the job I would suggest that it's not too much of a stretch to think the offense will be improved next season.

Let's all recall that Muamba took a long time to get signed when he was drafted and that the Bombers offered him a crap ton of money to extend his deal before he tried the NFL. Guy has always been motivated by money. Why didn't he sign here? Well 9 teams wanted to sign him and only 1 could, he opted to go with the deal Montreal offered for whatever reason. I won't shed too many tears though. We aren't exactly lacking at the linebacker position and guys like Muamba who are so motivated by money aren't the ones you build around anyway. He's a great player without a doubt but there are plenty of great players out there, we just need to find some more of them. Westerman is a pretty good star Canadian, get another guy like that from somewhere.

The reality is that we hired inexperienced people so I am willing to give them a chance to learn on the job as long as they're not a complete clusterfuck (which they aren't) Yes I have more patience than you, but being impatient hasn't worked for 25 years why not try a different approach this time?

Casey Creehan I believe

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much. I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading. Agree to disagree. IMO Walters and O'Shea are damaging the team and we already know what needs to be upgraded. Out of the playoffs for 2 years, not even 2 wins in a row for over a year and a half and not being able to beat any of the top 5 teams this year under these guys is as bad as I think it is. I really don't understand what you see in them. That being said, the decision's been made and we have to live with it or become a fan of a different team. As I'm a lifetime Bomber fan there's only one choice for me. This I disagree with... there's still a long way to go and we need to start winning some game ASAP... to say they're damaging the team is short sighted... 2 years ago no one wanted any part in coming to Winnipeg... not coaches, not players, we had no base of NI talent and our import players were suspect... while we still need to improve at bringing in imports, we definitely have a decent stable of base Canadian now... free agents are willing to sign here, and not necessarily b/c we are the highest bidder... this off-season we'll find out if we can attract some top coaching talent... they're putting us back on the CFL map... hopefully that will actually pay off this year... I still need to see a lot more to be convinced this regime can do more than provide hope... but there is no chance they are actually hurting the team... This exactly. A guy like Mike Kelly for example was mortgaging the future to try and eke out a few more wins in the present. Walters at least isn't giving away draft picks like it's going out of style or throwing players on the scrap heap instantly if the immediate results aren't there. He is committed to drafting (whether he's good enough at drafting is up for debate) and letting players work on improving with the idea eventually they'll be able to contribute in a larger way. There is a long term plan in place from what I can tell. Even if it winds up not working at least the new GM won't be left with a large tab in the form of lacking draft picks and even bodies at the NI positions. I think Kyle Walters has some flaws as a GM that he needs to improve on, and as much as I like Mike O'Shea as a coach I can see some areas I'd like him to be better in too... but they aren't actively harming the team long term so I'll give them time before firing them. Only way I fire them is if I can get one of the proven top guys to come here and replace them.

Surprise surprise the same people who are constantly nothing but positive see hope where there isn't any. We've already given O'Shea and Walters enough rope to hang themselves, and they did. Now we'll give them one more season to see if both of the first 2 seasons were flukes. The most likely outcome is we will have to make changes mid-season next year and that almost never works out. A new GM and HC would be stepping into a better situation now than Walters and O'Shea did. Mid season next year... not so much. I wouldn't say I'm constantly positive, I can point out things that are wrong, the trouble is when you see everything as being wrong anyone who tells you that not everything is wrong is seen as pumping sunshine and rainbows up everyones ass. You are so certain that you alone are correct in that everything is **** that you won't even entertain the notion that it's not as bad as you think it is. As long as Walters and O'Shea aren't doing damage to the team (which they aren't) I'll give them another year at least to see if we need to be upgrading.

The media did their spin job to make it sound like Ottawa was the good story and a lot of people buy the crap that Burris peddles about being the happiest and best person on the planet. The loudest I cheered in that game was when that arrogant tool got smacked at mid field. **** Henry Burris.

Surprise surprise the people who are constantly nothing but negative see no hope. It's not whether Walters and O'Shea are the right people, but the fact that they are being given enough rope to hang themselves is a good thing. It lets things stabilize themselves before we have to make yet another change to everything. Provides a bit more of a base to work with as opposed to the constant upheaval we've gone through, in particular with the Canadians on the team. People don't like to hear to but patience will be rewarded even if it does involve another change at GM. If a new GM walks in he's got a couple young OL developing, and a qb who can be the guy. That's a better starting position than any of the last GMs stepped into.

a voice at the top that isn't constantly changing.

I said to Noeller after the game watching the row of esks fans celebrating "I can't wait for that to be us" and i really do think it'll happen. Maybe not next year but things are stabilizing here and that'll be the big bonus.

after burris took that shot at midfield he definitely turtled. Got hit hard when he didn't see it coming and turned into the ***** we all know he is

I've never been to another festival but i can definitely say this one was highly enjoyable. So if that counts for anything good job winnipeg

but it felt colder than that with the slight wind that was blowing. All in all a good day at the stadium. I felt the game day experience was superior to the only other grey cup game I've been to (calgary 09) but that might be mostly due to a much much nicer stadium

because they were ******* with ottawa. Geeze it's not hard to figure out

case in point, Joe Mack could scout the **** out of players.

Winnipeg wins another one before hosting again. Take it to the bank.

If he wants to be both HC and GM I'd give the man a blank cheque and tell him to write in a number that would get him here. I like O'Shea but if you can get arguably the top guy in the CFL you do it.

He can be on any kind of mission he wants, Burris flat out sucks in the cold. The only time he got a Grey Cup win was in a dome and remember his last foray into an out doors grey cup game? He got his ass handed to him cause it was cold out. I personally want -40 and a ******* blizzard of epic proportions on Sunday because his tears will sustain me throughout the offseason. As someone who will be there... I do not endorse this sentiment... Hey I'll be there too, you can dress for the weather and I would gladly sit through a **** storm if it makes Burris look like an *******.

Congratulations, you completely misunderstood what the poor track record that people were referencing. It wasn't the wins and losses that scared people away from Winnipeg, it was the fact that coaches were fired in Winnipeg like it was going out of style. Go to Winnipeg have your career damaged to the point where you end up having to work on TSN.

I believe it was Mack who is responsible for bringing Crowton here. No it's well documented that it was Lapo who brought Crowton here. The only people who blamed it on Mack were the ones who would blame ISIS on Mack if they could find a tenuous thread to do it with.

He can be on any kind of mission he wants, Burris flat out sucks in the cold. The only time he got a Grey Cup win was in a dome and remember his last foray into an out doors grey cup game? He got his ass handed to him cause it was cold out. I personally want -40 and a ******* blizzard of epic proportions on Sunday because his tears will sustain me throughout the offseason.

Don't worry, if the weather gets cold we can get treated to a Burris choke job and watching him point fingers at everyone but himself will be worth the price of admission. He perfected that in Calgary.