17to85

That's OK, we'll counter with this guy...

Walters has done well with dbs and rbs but the LB and DL he's been terrible. Receivers he hasn't found a starter and has relied on CFL free agents. Guy needs to step up his game. Mack found dbs and rbs too, but he also found DL and LB and receivers.

Based on the hype I can only assume that this is the Als shiny new qb

Ottawa looked like a team that was pretty satisfied with themselves for winning their first 2 games and got spanked cause they didn't have the intensity or focus that Edmonton had. Looks good on them.

I don't get the point of this post. What does the composition of the current imports on the roster have to do with evaluating Mack's regime vs Walters' regime ability to find impactful imports? Given how quickly imports cycle through the league it's meaningless. I have the same problems with it. Too much turnover on all teams to really focus on the raw numbers, especially give we're 2 years removed from Mack being in charge. Not even taking into account that players that Walters brought in like Peach and Darvin Adams and Stanley Bryant and Chris Randle, and Drew Willy and maybe there's more I'm not thinking of all came from other teams initially anyway and shouldn't be in a discussion about a GMs ability to find guys down south to start with. I thought we were discussing player scouting? Walters or his scouts didn't discover any of the players that you listed. So you just stopped reading or what?

He's had 3 documented concussions in the CFL plus one in college. But the article I read suggested he's had many more. http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Football/CFL/Winnipeg/2012/10/01/20247596.html This article from 2012 says anywhere from 2-6 concussions since College. 10 seems high. 4-6 is likely. May have had more or less depending what they consider a concussion. And in his playing days when they didn't really care much about them he could have had more! You would think with Buck being a coach for us now he would be one of the guys helping out in determining if Willy is A-OK to play. I think he may know a thing or 2....or 6 about these types of things 10 would be about one a year throughout his pro and college days. It's unlikely, but I bet in his time as a Bomber he had about 5 so who knows lol this kind of statement is ridiculous. He took more head shots in BC than he did as a Bomber. As a Bomber it was always other things. His elbow, his legs his shoulders.

I don't get the point of this post. What does the composition of the current imports on the roster have to do with evaluating Mack's regime vs Walters' regime ability to find impactful imports? Given how quickly imports cycle through the league it's meaningless. I have the same problems with it. Too much turnover on all teams to really focus on the raw numbers, especially give we're 2 years removed from Mack being in charge. Not even taking into account that players that Walters brought in like Peach and Darvin Adams and Stanley Bryant and Chris Randle, and Drew Willy and maybe there's more I'm not thinking of all came from other teams initially anyway and shouldn't be in a discussion about a GMs ability to find guys down south to start with.

Drooling on himself is your definition of too many concussions? Thanks Dr. Spuds. Great work there. I don't know how this forum would function without your insight but I'd kinda like to find out. Yup... I think they brought Buck back too early too many times and he was never the same again. I know what you're believing in every case.... whatever the Bombers say. Nope... I don't believe in the infallibility of concussion protocol, doctors, coaches, or players, but I hope they've got it right this time. I would like some specific examples please.

But give that it's been 2 offseasons as well as that partial year for Walters and how much turnover there is regularly on a CFL roster is there really any meaning to how many americans are left from Macks time? I mean really 2 offseasons with a new regime in place you naturally expect a lot of turnover regardless of anything else. I just don't see these numbers being all that relevant in the context of this discussion.

and I think the biggest thing O'Shea took issue with would be the word urgency. I have this suspicion that he goes into every week wanting his guys to protect his quarterback so there's no more urgency it's just par for the course. They bring pressure the team does what it's supposed to in order to make the play.

It's always gotta be a black and white issue, eh? Always about the polar extremes... Don't forget the persecution complex

Because I know more about concussions than doctors and I saw him get hit! He's one hit away from being a vegetable for life!!11!!!!

because if you get his head wrecked again too soon there starts to be a law of diminishing returns on this sort of thing. and if you've got a potential long-term #1 in Willy (i think he can be), you use the kid gloves on him... ...or you wander through another long desert of Max Halls, Joey Elliots, Steven Jyleses, Alex Brinks, Justin Goltzes and who knows how many more false dawns until you get your next legit heir to Dieter. A completely healthy player could get his head wrecked too. It's playing scared and you don't need to do it. If the doctors have said Willy is healthy to play let him play.

And Walters record is 8-12 so far and there's still holes on the team. I get liking this group better but don't use the record to justify that. I'll stand by the claims that Mack left the team in better shape than Kelly did as well. Not to mention I already acknowledged that Mack was not a player in free agency and didn't have as much success drafting as he needed 2. When talking strictly about recruiting american players Mack blows Walters and co. out of the water whether people liked the guy or not. as to the second point, does depth matter if your starters aren't good enough?

Good stuff. Every scout has areas where they are better at recruiting/assessing than others. It's part of the reason you have multiple scouts. Can't blame McManus for all the teams shortcomings in recruitment, he is only one of many. On top of that assessing talent is only half the battle. Getting them to come to Canada and sign a contract can be just as daunting a task as finding them. Who is to say that McManus hasn't turned up some gems at DE, or R only to have them walk away from the 45k a year we offered them. Joe Mack didn't have trouble getting DEs to come to Canada. Just excuses. There are areas our scouting and recruiting is lacking and it needs to get better. No excuses. People complained about what Mack brought to Canada and they'll complain about what Walters brings to camp and they'll complain about what the next GM brings in as well. Winning solves all issues. How long is the leash for this front office? 2 years? 3 years? The CFL routinely has 33% turnover from year to year so it's a constant rebuild/reload scenario for most teams. Many on this board have stated that they can see an improvement in the National depth which is harder to develop than airmailing in players from the US. The biggest issues surrounding bringing in players through the tryout camps is guys that do not have a passport and the length of the contract. For some players (especially those that are looking to use the CFL as a stepping stone back to the NFL) the 2+1 contract makes them return to beating the bushes looking for a sniff at an NFL. People only ever complained about Macks drafting and lack of interest in free agency. I don't recall anyone seriously complaining about his ability to find american players because he always brought in guys who could play. He just didn't have the draft success needed or hire the coaches required. Honestly I want to like this group we have, they do a lot of good things, but you can't deny there are areas in their recruitment that are lacking thus far that needs to get better. Right now I've got Walters about the same level as Taman was when he was here. Can find some good players but not consistent enough in his ability to bring guys up north. Cares more about the draft that Taman though and that'll be the difference between the two.

If he's healthy he's healthy why rest him? He had a chance to sit and watch the offense last year when he was hurt so that's not even a consideration to me. You can't play scared.

Florida that can barely pay the bills and Buffalo who had other targets? You're not even trying you're just throwing names out there with no basis in reality. I'll say it again, Ladd has more value to Winnipeg than he does anywhere else.

It depends on the market. If he was a UFA this year he would have cleared 7 mil. Who would have signed him? You're not answering my questions. Who is going to give Ladd that kind of deal? The only guys to get that kind of money this year in free agency are young players, one ROR, is a massive over pay but he's young and the other is a near 40 goal scorer. FA was way down this year and it's because the cap didn't move much. People signed some stupid deals in years past expecting the cap to keep rising at a fast rate and that didn't happen and it caught a lot of teams without a lot of wiggle room. Ladd as popular as he apparently is among Winnipeg fans is not someone teams target at the kind of money being talked about here. Too old and simply not good enough to be the target for that kind of money. Everyone would love a guy like Ladd.... at the right price. over 6 million for 6 or 7 years is not the right price.

Who is going to sign Ladd to that kind of money long term? Who has A, the cap room to do it and B the need for a guy like that in his 30s? He has more value to WInnipeg than anyone else.

But what about the other players on the roster who will need raises? Have you seen the price of doing business with defencemen lately? The key for Ladd will be a deal that takes him to 34 maybe 35. After that you don't want the guy still on a big ticket contract. I can't see him being in demand enough around the league that someone else will give him that much for that long. He's got more value to the Jets in my eyes than he would anywhere else. Gotta be smart about contracts you give these days or else you wind up like Boston selling good young players for pennies on the dollar because you're in a cap crunch.

Knowing Kevin Glenn, I have absolutely no faith that we actually win in 2007 with him at the helm. Revisionist history. I remember the 2007 season clearly, and if Glenn doesn't have his arm broken, we kill the Riders with our defense alone. Hell, they came within 4 points of winning the damn thing with Dinwiddie, and that included an "interception" that actually skipped off the turf and wasn't overturned because no replay yet... Could have .. should have .. would have .. doesn't matter. "Close" only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades. I believe the point is "close with our backup qb making his first ever start when he had 4 turnovers on rookie mistakes" Obviously they didn't win, but they were missing a pretty significant piece in that game I think I still lay awake at night every now and then thinking about the 2001 and 2007 Grey Cups... 2001 was far worse to me. They came out like gang busters, but Westwood fucks the dog and they're up 4-1 instead of 9-1. sets the completely wrong tone for the game.

But most of that is also stuff that only caters to the already obsessed. That is one way of looking at it. The other way is that the daily Bomber reports in the papers are already a solid 30% filler - I'd give an example if I had a paper in front of me - and this is far more interesting than any of that nonsense. So why not use this instead to pad the word count? You are part of the already obsessed though. For the filthy casual, who makes up most of the readership they just don't have the indepth knowledge of what's going on that we have. We are the elite fans ladies and gentlemen, No one caters to us, no one needs to because we can find out what's going on without having to rely on the papers.

Why do you think thats too much? Consistent goal scorer. Consistent point producer. Advanced stats shows he drives offensive play and makes his linemates better. He hardly misses games. He's in his prime. He has two cups. He's the captain. I think $6m is about fair market value. And if we agree $5.5 is better, you're also buying X amount of years of Free Agency and rewarding him for intangibles of leadership and loyalty. I think there is something to how you treat players. Doesnt mean over-paying (I think we all agree Little would get more on the open market). But if they played hard ball with the Captain, players will remember that. If both sides negotiate in good faith, it means something. That right there is why. Sure Ladd now is worth it, Ladd getting to 35 years old though? No sir. There's going to be a drop coming, You give Ladd a long deal at big money you're going to regret it by the last few years. Especially with Canada heading to a recession and the dollar dropping, that'll affect how much the cap rises. Just because Buffalo handed out stupid contracts to guys like O'Reilly doesn't mean the Jets should do the same. I'd say a deal like that for Ladd would be similar to the deal the Oilers gave Horcoff a while back and it was a terrible deal in the long run because it was too much for too long for a guy poised to start into the back part of his career.

But most of that is also stuff that only caters to the already obsessed.

even 6 years 6 million is too much for my blood for Ladd. If he wants that kind of money 4 or maybe 5 years tops.