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This thread had very little relevance to it to begin with, it's turned into a more spirited discussion. Spirited discussion? This discussion has been beaten to death over the last two years and you're usually the first to call posters out on that. If Lapo and Mack's names were never mentioned again. It would be too soon. Let's discuss the present not the past. The past shapes the present. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it etc etc.

He's a former first round pick that will never play for the Jets again... He doesn't have that kind of value. I mean christ if being a first round pick is enough then someone should grab Hugh Jessiman just so they can cash in on that value.

This thread had very little relevance to it to begin with, it's turned into a more spirited discussion.

I think LAPO was a good coach with a horrible cast of players to play with.. Even with that, he managed to take the team to the greycup with a broken down Qb, a weak oline, and a good defence. The team cratered after lapo was removed, and Burke didn't do anything with the same cast of players... We finally looked like perhaps we are on an uptrend, AFTER changing the GM, The whole Coaching staff and a bunch of players including the QB. So.. I think Lapo is a good Coach and did well considering what and who he had to work with. Lapo only looked good in comparison to the absolute **** show that was Tim Burke. Lapo coached not to lose. He could have got some more wins out of that team if he showed some balls and took some risks.

I think it's more a case of two GMs trying to outsmart themselves trying to target the guy they think might be the deal and upping the price of him but when the dust settles the better guy doesn't cost a hell of a lot more.

You learn how to spin properly and it's no concern. All you have to do is explain that they're just removing any possible competition that their prized free agent signing Darvin Adams might have.

Such a huge bust for Hufnagel, how a guy keeps his job missing out on top draft picks this badly is very surprising.

Grigsby is a runningback who can't break tackles. That's like having a quarterback who's only weakness is passing the ball.

You think they keep all of them around? Unless Grigsby got some balls surgically added in the offseason he's not as good as the other two guys.

He believed in taking players with physical tools and then turning them over to the coaches to turn them into players. It's not the worst strategy... unless you can't hire a good coach. Enough with the ridiculous 'worst coach' thing... physical tools pfft. Pencer was an OT with bum shoulders, Etienne was a receiver coming off a broken back, Robertson was a 5'6 DB and Fitzgerald was the slowest guy in the draft Stephan and Swiston were recovering from a major injuries and seem like they never really did You saying that either Lapo or Burke were good coaches? Pencer was a big strong OL who could move pretty well, Etienne was a tall player with decent speed and had a decent year with little time spent as a WR, Robertson was short but I believe his testing numbers were quite good, Fitzgerald might have been slow but he was a big strong player. Lot of raw abilities there that were expected to be developed. It didn't happen for a variety of reasons. I just find that people are really too hard on Joe Mack for a lot of things. It's almost like it's personal and they will intentionally make things sound worse than they really were.

He believed in taking players with physical tools and then turning them over to the coaches to turn them into players. It's not the worst strategy... unless you can't hire a good coach.

I projected him to start at RG, but he'll have to battle Goossen for that spot. What I mean is that he's actually played RT in Sask and when he came in, it seemed like he was a 'ratio changer' we had been looking for... I would suspect that with him being a bit of an injury concern you don't want to play him at tackle without having another Canadian who can slide into that position if he gets hurt. He plays guard then in the event of injury you're only making one move on the OL and you don't have to change the ratio at all.

But...but...but according to the media, Etienne was Lapo's pick. Or least he was when he was contributing on the field otherwise he was a Mack pick. Mack made the pick. If LaPo was involved he's not as smart as he portrays himself on TSN. Whoever. Shitty pick. Total waste. No ****, Lapo was a failed head coach, you think it's the brilliant coaches who get to be on TSN?

be fair, he also took Muamba over MItchell and I am sure we can find some other instances. Drafting, especially in the CFL is a crap shoot and everyone loves Kyle Walters but how would we feel about him if he took MItchell over Muamba? Which is something he likely would have done.

The Bombers don't even have 1 guy I'd consider a stud Canadian starter and that is a problem. Yeah there's lots of bodies that you hope can start, but the quality really isn't there. We've got three legit starters -- Kohlert, Greaves, maybe Bucknor. Kohlert's the best of the three, if I had to draft a Canadian off the Bombers for my expansion team he'd definitely be the one I'd take. I love the guy, but if he's the ceiling for Canadian talent on the Bombers there is still much work to be done. Every one of our other prospective starters is a huge question mark. Is Picard past his best-before date? Is Neufeld going to be durable enough? Is Goosen ready? Can the firm of Hurl, Newman, and Sherman hold down an LB spot? Do we have even a single legit DL starter? Yeah I love me some Kohlert but the fact that he is our best Canadian player is a problem. He's a good solid player to be sure but he's not a guy that is dynamic enough to be your best Canadian.

Now your bias is shining through. Lots of the players on this team were brought in by Joe Mack. This regime has a lot of ground to make up to even come close to the level of recruiting Mack did. You hate Mack though so I just expect you to downplay the things he did do welll. . I don't see in his post where he said Mack didn't recruit some good players. "Lots" is a subjective word. I count 12 guys on the roster that predate Walters taking over. My beef with Mack was his disdain in not wanting to sign players in free agency or to hold onto our own. And of course the horrible qb'ng situation. He was probably right to draft Andy Mulamba as he was a very good player. Almost every GM has drafted a player who decided to give the NFL a whirl. Sure he brought in players. It was the failure of free agency & the LaPolice firing that turned me off him. That Mulumba draft all the top guys gave the NFL a try basically and Mulumba was one of the ones they didn't think had much of a chance to stick, but he did. Worthwhile gamble IMO. Really Macks biggest failing was hiring 2 duds at head coach.

The Bombers don't even have 1 guy I'd consider a stud Canadian starter and that is a problem. Yeah there's lots of bodies that you hope can start, but the quality really isn't there.

I agree 110% with what you say 17. However, I truly appreciate the work the guys put in. Walters has done more for the Bombers in 18 months than Joe Mack did in nearly 3 years plus he seems to get how a championship team is built. Pieces are found through recruiting, drafting & free agent signings. However, that one sentence describing Miller... Guess I'm the Third Negatron. Like Noeller says just give us the pbp without the other stuff. Now your bias is shining through. Lots of the players on this team were brought in by Joe Mack. This regime has a lot of ground to make up to even come close to the level of recruiting Mack did. You hate Mack though so I just expect you to downplay the things he did do welll.

How do you figure? Because the PR team says everything is great? Yes they had a good day in free agency, but we don't need fluff pieces to know that.

Bombers PR guy writes about the teams free agency day... "Yeah our super awesome GM and coach had this plan and they NAILED IT! Then the teams super awesome president walked in and we all slapped each other on the back!" I appreciate the look, but it really is a fluff piece.

How times have changed, remember when people freaked out about Khari Jones million dollar contract?

For us old guys (30's) think back to when you were a young kid and what simply wasnt allowed on TV. I remember being...maybe 12/13 and we had "Superchannel" and it was mind blowing...lol I dunno, I think there was more stuff allowed on TV when I was a kid than there is now. Sure maybe the language has pushed the boundaries a little but everything else seems like TV has gotten more tame than it used to be with the exception of places like HBO who just keep on keeping on. Way more sex and violence and language on regular TV now. Sure, cable is one thing, like AMC and FX but even network television. What was that cop show where they kept showing the cast members' bare asses? Remember all the controversy? Now you could get away with that. Plus, ******* is allowed now...there's another word I kept hearing on Y&R a couple years ago that I was surprised was now allowed but I cant remember what it was...**** maybe? **** is allowed now too. Although people our age will remember Degrassi always pushing the envelope with a naked Joey and then the movie where they dropped the F bomb twice in prime time. But you know I remember 2 different times when I was a kid where I saw boobs on CBC... when was the last time CBC showed any skin? I actually think network TV and even a lot of the cable channels are cleaner than they used to be. That whole Janet Jackson superbowl nipple really regressed what TV could get away with.

Relevant

For us old guys (30's) think back to when you were a young kid and what simply wasnt allowed on TV. I remember being...maybe 12/13 and we had "Superchannel" and it was mind blowing...lol I dunno, I think there was more stuff allowed on TV when I was a kid than there is now. Sure maybe the language has pushed the boundaries a little but everything else seems like TV has gotten more tame than it used to be with the exception of places like HBO who just keep on keeping on.

Honestly I'd extend him now rather than waiting. If he fixes some of the issues he has he might drop a big season on the CFL and demand way more cash. Extending him early has a possibility of a slight discount.