17to85

There were red flags about Burke as HC in his first week on the job.

I disagree that firing Burke won't change anything. Maybe not in the short term but getting a new head man in here for next year will do all kinds of good, especially when he brings in a new coaching staff. Burke preaches about jobs being on the line but never actually benches anyone when they play like crap, that's a big part of what leads to a losing culture.

Right Guard? Roberts didn't need a good o-line to play well. Just needed some big fat guys like Matt Sheridan to hide behind. Defenses just had no idea where he was!

The team has taken on Burkes persona lately. So down in the dumps. It's bad and they know it's bad and they play like it.

yeah Burke liked Goltz a hell of a lot last year and last offseason as well. At this point Burke is just hoping that Boltus is actually good so he can save his own job.

glad to see him back in Winnipeg, he may have had some questionable traits but damned he was a good player. One of those guys worth the price of admission all by himself. This current team has no one nearly as talented as he was. No matter how much a defense tried to gameplan to stop Charlie Roberts he could still make things happen.

are we really trying to blame a qb for a receiver dropping a pass that there is absolutely no reason to drop?

I'll also say that losing that fumble early (I still say he was down FWIW) and having the punt return TD called back on a weak call is what sunk the team. These guys have absolutely 0 ability to over come adversity. Things start to go bad they go real bad. Same way that if things start to go well it keeps going that way too. I have little doubt that in the Banjo Bowl that if they hadn't made the stop on the goal line that that game would have gotten ugly in a hurry too. But they made the big play early and it kept going.

You were expecting a sure-fire NFLer to come in? I guess my expectations were a little more than a bar two inches off the floor. With this team, I honestly don't know what to expect anymore. Honestly, I just wish you'd do some of your own research for once before you start complaining. Not to rag on MOAB but he posted the guy's college bio with his weight listing from 2 years ago. Jones hasn't weighed sub-300 since he left college and is most recently listed as closer to 305. He's also had NFL tryouts and comes from one of the better offensive line programs in the NCAA. I don't know what you expect, did you think we were going to go out and sign Michael Oher off the street? people are so down on our o-line and the americans that have been brought in lately that they just assume the worst because that's all we've seen.

I didn't find the centre thing that bad though, he was asked who goofed and he explained it well. Not like he threw Sorenson under the bus either, he talked about how it's a different situation with a new OC and Sorenson just flashed back to the previous OC, that happens when things have been drilled into you for a couple years and suddenly it's changed. There were a lot of things he said that give a guy pause but that to me wasn't one of them.

but that's what I'm saying when I say that he's lost all confidence. He had times but he didn't pull the trigger cause he's expecting to get blasted, he's trying to use his legs too much because he's got no confidence in throwing the ball. It's sad to see when it's so into a guys head that he can't do the simple things right. He's really fallen back onto just running the ball. Hall was at least getting the ball away, but it was so rushed most times it ended up just being heaved in the general direction of a receiver hoping they'd come down with it rather than the dbs. All he could really do but it certainly wasn't a fantastic game either.

He's gone from supporting and endorsing all these players to completely throwing them under the bus in a desperate hail mary play to save his own job and it's disgusting. You want to save your job Tim? Then you'd better start getting these players ready to play the game. The players may suck, but the coaches are doing just as poor a job. We see bad teams at least play competitively more than this team has been under Burke. How many blowouts has he been the head coach for? How many games where there was just absolutely no believe that the team could even fluke their way back into a game? That reflects on the coaching far more than the players IMO.

how bad is shulte that he can't even crack this offensive line?

I really agree with this... Hall didn't have the time for ANY of his routes to properly develop ALL GAME (Goltz didn't either) Both QB's were basically forced to throw balls before they knew for certain that their receiver was going to get to the right spot first (or at all) OR try to put the ball into extremely tight windows because the window that they want to hit won't be open soon enough. I mean Boatman wasn't even slowing down his guy on the blind side half the time.... Edm didn't need to blitz to get blitz level pressure on the QB and a lot of times it seemed like Goltz was ready to throw then felt the pressure and tried to tuck it and run but the defense was having none of that. That guy just looks like he's lost all confidence in the passing game and was trying too much to use the legs as a crutch rather than a change of pace.

I looked at some of the "highlights" of that game, Hall might be OK if he had more time in the pocket, but he doesn't so he was just pitching the ball up and hoping the receiver came down with it. If we go with him we're likely to see a bunch of interceptions, will just be a matter of whether or not the receivers can make more plays than other teams dbs (not going to bet on the receivers we're throwing to now.)

Biggest thing I took from that show was how defeated Burke sounds. So lifeless so clueless. Fire him weeks ago. It needed to happen. He is not the guy who is going to turn anything around here.

well after listening to the coaches show be awfully surprised if we see Goltz playing again... too bad Burke was one of Goltz most public supporters last year and in the offseason and was obviously a driving force in him being bumped up to #2 at the expense of Brink and Elliott. Damn it Burke we're paying for your stupid player preferences.

Trading him for a shitty return would be a mistake, but if you can get something good in return is it really a mistake?

For the record, I will continue to bash Mack as often as I can, whenever I can. The team is no better & maybe even worse than when he was hired. Once we hire a General Manager who knows what he is doing I will stop. That may also be awhile. if you're trying to compare it to the Elliott arguments you really should be saying that you'll stop when a GM is hired who performs worse than Mack.... Just my opinion.

So did I actually, Thomas fought hard out there.Whats with all the Max Hall love? He wasn't any better than Goltz. Burke is the one who said he expected Goltz & Hall to be better than Elliot and Brink this year. Well it looks that couldn't be any less true. I don't see Max Hall love, but proof is in the stats.... Goltz had 54 with nearly half of them gained by a fantastic catch by Kelly. Hall had triple the production..... Goltz had 15 yards in a half last week..... it's no love its simple that despite Hall not being lights out... clearly he could move the ball better then Goltz. however how many yards did Hall get on that fluke pass that Edwards was able to pull out of a dbs arms? Hall was throwing a lot of passes up for dbs to make a play on, is that better or worse than a qb taking a sack? You decide. Neither one dealt with the pressure well. Goltz was hesitating to throw trying to use his legs to get out of trouble, Edmonton played to take that option away from him, Hall can't run so he threw the ball before the pressure got there and as a result there were a lot of balls up for grabs. Either one plays like that again there won't be any winning for this team.

I'm not saying he's good or bad, I'm just saying comparing stats in Toronto and Winnipeg are not an ideal way to go about things. Lot of other issues at work in Winnipeg that don't help any qb. The fact that Marcel Bellefeuille is seen as the guy to fix the offense should be red flag #1.

I don't think the premise of trading Muamba is the one that's being criticized here, it's the idea that a pending FA who was a pain in the ass to get signed to an entry level deal with an agent that lots of GMs won't give the time of day to who has already said he'll be a pain in the ass to sign this time has the kind of value that he could bring in a qb that is actually going to make a difference.

it's just far too simplistic to say "well that qb has good stats on that team, he'd be good here" Too many other things wrong with the Bombers to just assume that any qb with a little bit of success somewhere else would be able to succeed here where so many others have failed to do so. That's actually the #1 reason I still stand by Elliott, he started to show some ability to move the ball with these players in this offense, that's not something that can be easily dismissed. Yeah there were turnovers, but there's still turnovers, there were turnovers from other qbs before him too, but at least Elliott could string some drives together HERE.

Is Collaros really showing THAT much as a passer though? We've seen how teams can take away a guy who is a runner first and foremost with the other issues on the Bombers offense right now. The Argos are not nearly as good a team with Collaros in there for Ray regardless of whether or not the guy has picked up a few wins. (Goltz beat the riders as well FWIW)

It's about maybe half...sometimes more. Depends who joins. Like Saturday we had about 14 people in there. But Noeller, 17, Mike, etc...were missing from the room where they'd normally be in there. And Bluto, who's been incommunicado for a while, happened to be in there. He's just been really busy with work. During at home games we have people coming in and out of the chat room from the stadium...cause the internet sucks so bad when you're there, and then there's the usual crowd plus a few others that randomly come in and out. Usually no less then 8 and no more then 20 during a game. I'm guessing if they started winning that might increase. yeah noeller and I were watching the game delayed on the PVR (and quite drunk so you wouldn't have wanted to hear what we were saying anyway) The chat room is in my mind a very superior option to having all the one liners and complaining or wooing in a massive game thread. I would suggest that a post game thread is really the thing that should be there rather than a thread for the game going on.