17to85

it's equally silly to cut your bonafide #2s but we did that in the offseason too.

with that attitude you should be banned from this site immediately.

and do you support Pierce because of what he's shown this year or what he showed in 2011 (first half) and prior?

oh there were definitely flat out drops, including at least 2 on second downs that would have extended drives in late stages of the games. There were some missed throws for sure, but the receivers put some on the turf that were very catchable. Both games Goltz started in fact I felt that the receivers didn't do enough to help a young qb. That doesn't mean they were dropping routine catches, but they never really made any of the highlight type catches that you see every week in the CFL either.

This team won't get better until they move on from this outdated notion that Pierce gives them any kind of chance to win. He very nearly cost them the only win they had if not for the defense creating a turnover for themselves.

and he also had some egregious drops in there that were well thrown. See I can just as easily turn around and say that I've never seen as many bad passes as when Pierce was under centre. Or are you forgetting just how bad he was in his games? Your attitude really sounds to me like you're too focussed on the last game and not the big picture. Let's keep in mind here the completion percentage for the two of them is 60.4% vs. 57.7% it's not some huge difference here.

which proves what exactly? All it will prove is that Buck sucks and sucks hard. The fact that he's being outperformed by a guy with 2 career starts is a very telling statement about just how far PIerces game has fallen. Some people though (including some of our coaches) seem to have a hard time letting go of the past and realizing that Pierce might have a good understanding of the offense and the CFL and what defenses are doing he is unable to perform at the required level.

I actually think that Burke would be willing to stick with Goltz. It seems to me that Crowton is the one who very much prefers Buck (and Hall obviously) to Goltz and with Burke turning everything over to Crowton in terms of deciding who is going to play we get this order for the qbs. This is not totally unexpected. Crowton was very vocal about how he liked Pierce last season as well. Seems like maybe Crowton feels Goltz is too raw, which is entirely understandable, but Pierce being a veteran isn't helping him play any better than Goltz. All I know is that Hall better play damned well because if I have to watch PIerce play like a complete rookie for this team again I'm likely to be sick.

so you believe that makes pierce more effective... Can you honestly say that you think when watching the games that Pierce is actually giving the team a better chance to win? The stats MIke brings up are very telling. No one is acting like Goltz is some phenom here, we're just pointing out that despite his struggles at times, PIerce has been worse. The number of 2 and outs is the most alarming thing. Too many times Pierce has had the offense stuck in a huge rut that loses the field position battle badly and wears the defense down. The other big thing to me is how one dimensional pierce is and easy for opposing teams to defend. At least with the added mobility of Goltz it gives defenses something else to worry about rather than simply being able to blitz Pierce and render him useless. Pierce may be very very slightly better at passing the ball right now... but Goltz is better at too many other things for that to matter. The difference in mobility is far greater and more beneficial than any difference in passing ability.

There is just no way that you can justify favouring Pierce over Goltz. That's a low bar we're setting here but it's just the facts. Goltz is the better player right now and he's so much younger and less experienced so at least he's got a chance to get better. I am so over Buck Pierce just because of how bad he's been for the last couple seasons, they really need to cut the guy just so the temptation isn't there for the coaches to actually play him. The team will never progress with him.

or our coaches on offense are idiots. There's lots of evidence for that.

let's ask your boy Buck cause he's over thrown that same 6'5 receiver plenty of times this season too. See your better accuracy for PIerce amounts to 3%... is that really worth getting all hot and bothered over?

how about sacks given up? Rushing yards per game with and without Buck? There's as many stats to say Pierce isn't the better option and a whole boatload of stuff that can't be measured in stats as well. Pierce is simply too easy for other teams to defend against because of his lack of mobility and slow decision making.

as a guy who can't seem to stay healthy methinks it'd be wise for little Johnny to keep his yap shut cause he might find himself alongside his buddy in the unemployment line before too long.

but the replacement doesn't have any noticable advantage in leg strength. I think it's fair to question moves made to areas that aren't the primary concern. Where's the receiver signings? The OL signings? The QB signings? These are areas that should be addressed first and foremost.

Because if Hall gets hurt or gets benched I'd rather it be Goltz going in than Pierce. It shows that our coaches still haven't accepted the fact that PIerce is washed up. Yeah Goltz wasn't a lot better than PIerce, but he was still better and has more upside to him.

and neither is pierce so if goltz is better than pierce why is goltz #3?

which has what to do with Pierce? Goltz is giving us a better chance to win than Pierce simply by being able to run. Stop pretending that Pierce has actually been playing anywhere better than god awful.

******* media in Winnipeg are real bad for leading people down a path when they're questioning them. That's why they love Burke so much, he'll skip down that path with them, The one good thing Mike Kelly did when here was treat the media with the disdain that they've earned. Except Bob Irving, he's above reproach.

that goes against the type of defense they've built here. They prefer the versatile guys who can play outside or inside, and Vega fits that. He's played inside at times for the bombers. Bottom line he's better than Mainor so if he wants to come back sign the man.

so then doesn't it stand to reason that if the 9 year vet is giving us that kind of crap then we should stick with the guy just getting his feet wet starting games and has good potential? That's the real issue here, Goltz going behind Pierce on the depth chart. Pierce is old useless and done. Playing coach or cut are the options that we should be using with him but no, Crowton for god knows what reason wants him at #2.

well for what it's worth Burke said on the coaches show last night that he felt Goltz was better than Pierce had been too so it's not just me who sees it.

and Parker was playing very well before him as well.

here is something no one else is considering when talking about setting the roster... is it possible that Burke is just that much of a push over that he just won't stand up and say who he wants as his starting qb? Seems to fit with how he's acted in regards to the offense from the get go. Only time he really got vocal about it was with his dislike of Elliott, but it seems that Crowton didn't much like Elliott either and was probably pushing him out the door too. I dunno Burke more and more comes across as kind of flakey and indecisive when it comes to his ideas about an offense.

Trouble is that Goltz in my eyes did beat out Pierce this year, which is more a statement on just how useless PIerce has been. I think Elliott beat out Pierce last season as well but we all know how that ended. Beating Pierce right now isn't hard, I fully expect that Hall will outperform Pierce this weekend as well just because Pierce has been THAT bad.