17to85

well Suber is so short that he has no choice but to go low because even if he goes high it's still pretty low.

just looking at the stats, wow hamilton turned in a bomber bad offensive performance. Nothing running the ball, nothing passing the ball, sounds like all around ugly.

well the best way to beat Ray is to keep him on the sidelines. String together some long drives, score some points, you know all the things the bombers offense is totally unable to do.

but even blitzing all the time isn't guaranteed to stop him, he knows how to read and react to that. You actually have to get to him all the time.

I'm just saying until this team stops firing coaches every 2 years and GMs every 3 or 4 years chances of developing a new qb are slim to none.

That's the problem with Toronto, stopping Ray is easier said than done, especially when your defense is built to play more of a man cover scheme. He's the most accurate passer in the CFL AINEC so even when receivers are covered he still puts balls in places that give his receivers a chance to make a play, and god help you if there is a bit of space there. Basically to stop Ray you need relentless pressure on every snap of the game.

Most qbs it takes at least 3 years to even be ready to think about starting. I mean Drew Tate who is the closest thing to a new starter the CFL has took like 5 years before he was ready. Lulay really took off in his 3rd year right? Kevin Glenn didn't become a regular starter until his 4th year. Ray was an anomaly who was an instant success, Burris took a few years, Calvillo took a several years. In WInnipeg we've been going through quarterbacks way too fast and even ones who start to show potential like Elliott (and we shouldn't forget that he did basically lose a year to rehabbing his knee) were tossed aside just as they were starting to get some starting experience. Goltz has got a couple years of practising under his belt which is good, but he still likely needs a lot more seasoning before he's a really capable starter, but given how poor pierce has been if he isn't an over night success this season when he gets into games will anyone have patience with him? Or will the coaches and GMs all be fired and the new bunch will bring in a whole new bunch of quarterbacks to try? Hell Winnipeg has barely been giving coaches two years let along qbs.

yeah but dumping Pierce (which I agree should have been done) is no guarantee to fixing the position either. They could have brought in all the young qbs they wanted and it might have turned out like MIke Kellys year did. Brought in the highly touted backup, he didn't stand out immediately so drive the bus over him and move on to the next guy, and the next, and the next, then eventually go with a re-tread never was... Developing a qb is a long process which I quite frankly don't believe enough fans here have the patience for. We saw how quick a lot of them turned on Joey Elliott and Alex Brink. You gotta be prepared to give those guys multiple years to grow into the position and I just don't see that flying in Winnipeg because of how crazy everyone has gotten on account of the no cups since 1990 thing.

that's a cop out answer. There are so many highly touted qb prospects who don't take the next step it's still a huge gamble. It's easy to say fix the qb position, it's a hell of a lot harder to do it, that's why guys like PIerce and Glenn are still employed.

but how do you solve that problem? The CFL is already weak at qb and it's poised to get weaker with Calvillo and Burris being old and older.

is that coaching though or the players? Obviously the defense knows how far the offense needs to go for a first down and they'll try and force the receiver to go short of that right? Should the onus not be on the recievers to make sure their routes take them to the first down sticks? I think in a situation like that it is too simple to just blame the playcalling without knowing how far the route was supposed to take the receiver. I mean if it's a recurring problem through a couple different OCs now maybe it's time to point fingers at the guys running those routes.

or crazy thought, he had more faith in the guy actually working in the CFL over a talking head on TSN. Walters was already heavily involved in the Bombers NI scouting, all the rest of this is just insanity. I think it's simply a case that he doesn't have a good eye for head coaches. He's gone about building the depth on this team both I and NI, there's really just 2 sore spots in his time here, HC and qb and those are both tied together.

no because the decision to keep buck and dump Elliott is going to be a big one in determining the fate of the guys running this team if none of the other qbs step up. So until one of them makes us all forget up Elliott it is going to be deservedly brought up. They chose to release him, so it's still a relevant topic given how much of a sore spot the qb position has been.

To me it's a situation where a guy can have all the talent in the world as a qb but he still needs a lot of other things to go right and I don't think the guys we had were able to do it. I still say Elliott could have turned into a decent starter, but obviously Burke didn't like him. Goltz shows potential, but will he be able to d anything when he's not given a chance to play?

The one I'll be most disappointed to lose is Mack because he brings in some fantastic talent. Too bad his choices at head coach haven't been worth a damn.

Burke, Crowton, Mack, probably all the rest of the coaches too since a new GM will bring in all new coaches.

just blows my mind how selective that guy is when looking at pierce. Pierce is crap in the hamilton game but hangs onto the 2 good drives he had and throws every other players slighest mistakes out there... Goltz looks solid but says he didn't do some things well. Pierce does his usual thing which includes a lot of crap and it's best qb blah blah blah postive postive postive. If Burke were able to assess Pierce with the same critical eye he uses on everyone else this team would be a lot further ahead.

Burkes stubborn insistence that Pierce is the starter is going to get a lot of people fired.

now my question is, why can't he accurately assess Pierces performance?

The answer as it has been for a while now, is yes. What have we got to lose?

To me Kohlert is this generations Stoddard. Doesn't leap out at you but just keeps doing what he has to.

CFL website has Goltz at 13-15 for 170 yards no tds no ints... seems like there's something there, we know Pierce doesn't have it anymore and yeah some of those Goltz stats were garbage time but he's the most athletic qb on the roster, let's give him a shot and see if he gets better. Can't be worse than going down by several scores before the game is half over.

it seems like there is a real double standard when it comes to accountability with this team. Seems to me that he is much quicker to bench or replace defensive guys than offensive ones despite the offense being such an achilles heel for this team for years now. I mean we returned pretty much everyone on offense... how does that make any sense? Then after a month of crappy offense the only changes getting made are due to injuries... End the double standard and start benching the guys on offense who aren't doing their jobs.

I'd suspect that once people start getting healthy Johnson might find himself only on special teams.. How has sears looked being back?

and by stamps fans you mean rider fans right?