Bigblue204

Not any worse then it is now. Except he'd be a rookie GM and have more on his plate, and on a team with less talent. Jones have the Bombers numbers over the years since he became a DC in 2003, the only he hasn't win in a year was in 2007. The Bombers only won once against Chris Jones Def since 2010. Here's his record vs the Bombers. It will be huge since we will be playing the Riders 3x in a year. 2003 - MTL DC 2-0 2004 - MTL DC 2-0 2005 - MTL DC 1-1 2006 - MTL DC 2-1 2007 - MTL DC 0-3 2008 - CGY DC 1-1 2009 - CGY DC 1-1 2010 - CGY DC/Asst.HC/Asst.DirofPP 2-0 2011 - CGY DC/Asst.HC/Asst.DirofPP 2-0 2012 - TOR DC/Asst.HC/Asst.GM 2-1 2013 - TOR DC/Asst.HC/Asst.GM 3-0 2014 – EDM HC/DC 2-0 2015 - EDM HC/DC 2-0 And which of those teams was he rebuilding by himself? Jones has experience in personell and scouting. He will be a rookie in title only. And for sure, he will hire his assistants as well. Rookie in Title only, and the fact that he's never been a GM before. But besides that he won't be a rookie.....? And again, he's never had to deal with the mess SSK is in right now. I'm not saying he's going to fail. I'm just saying it's hard to believe he's going to turn them into a power house by July 2016.

Not any worse then it is now. Except he'd be a rookie GM and have more on his plate, and on a team with less talent. Jones have the Bombers numbers over the years since he became a DC in 2003, the only he hasn't win in a year was in 2007. The Bombers only won once against Chris Jones Def since 2010. Here's his record vs the Bombers. It will be huge since we will be playing the Riders 3x in a year. 2003 - MTL DC 2-0 2004 - MTL DC 2-0 2005 - MTL DC 1-1 2006 - MTL DC 2-1 2007 - MTL DC 0-3 2008 - CGY DC 1-1 2009 - CGY DC 1-1 2010 - CGY DC/Asst.HC/Asst.DirofPP 2-0 2011 - CGY DC/Asst.HC/Asst.DirofPP 2-0 2012 - TOR DC/Asst.HC/Asst.GM 2-1 2013 - TOR DC/Asst.HC/Asst.GM 3-0 2014 – EDM HC/DC 2-0 2015 - EDM HC/DC 2-0 And which of those teams was he rebuilding by himself?

Not any worse then it is now. Except he'd be a rookie GM and have more on his plate, and on a team with less talent.

Fair enough, but that was before they had the 4, 1000 yard receivers playing for them.

Yes and then one winning season and everyone will come back. That's the way it's gone in the past and will go in the future. I don't get the "sky is falling" theory that everyone is putting forward. Like every team every where hasn't gone on loosing streaks that see fans finding other means of entertainment only to come back as soon as said team is winning. It literally happens everywhere....all the time.

"Knows nothing of a winning team"....except for those winning teams we've had. Just no grey cup. But people here of all ages know what a positive W/L record looks like.

It's nice seeing these games on a national channel too. About time, the CIS has had some fun football to watch the last few years. Especially in the playoffs.

That is only an Assumption. This is a fan forum, and while some may have more knowledge then others. No one here really knows what goes on during meetings etc etc. If O'Shea was aware of these problems and still sat on his hands that long, does that make his status better or worse? Assuming he did nothing while seeing the issues that would obviously make his status worse. But again, there is no way of knowing either way.

That is only an Assumption. This is a fan forum, and while some may have more knowledge then others. No one here really knows what goes on during meetings etc etc.

We aren't discussing whether or not he would be a good DC. Just whether or not it would be unrealistic to expect him to know how to Design a Defense along with another DC (Etch), which is what your original statement was. That it would be unrealistic to assume so. I'm simply stating that since he's already shown he can take on field experience and transfer that to a playbook via Special teams. It isn't unrealistic that he could also do that for a Defense. Whether or not it would work out is another discussion all together. If he were a former DC at any level then I'd agree with you. As he wasn't I don't. You are allowed your opinion. Even though it's wrong.

We aren't discussing whether or not he would be a good DC. Just whether or not it would be unrealistic to expect him to know how to Design a Defense along with another DC (Etch), which is what your original statement was. That it would be unrealistic to assume so. I'm simply stating that since he's already shown he can take on field experience and transfer that to a playbook via Special teams. It isn't unrealistic that he could also do that for a Defense. Whether or not it would work out is another discussion all together.

O'Shea's never been a DC so it would be unrealistic for them to expect he'd be able to fix Etch's D by mid-season. I disagree. Due to his experience as a player. He has been a part of some great defenses. And if you hear his former team mates speak, he was basically a coach on the field. He knows the CFL defense and could design one if needed. I have a hard time believing a future HOF MLB wouldn't know how. Especially one that spent basically his entire life around the Canadian game. MO was a great MLB no question about it but being part of great defences and designing great defences are two totally different skillsets. Yes, but he was also a great ST player. And he's shown he knows how design some pretty good ST. So he has shown he does have the skill set to transfer on field experience to the playbook. Hence, it wouldn't be unrealistic to expect him to be able to help design a new etch D.

we didn't start 2007 at 7-1. They actually tied the first game of the year against EDM...won the next game and lost the 3rd.

Not even close lol. How high are you?

O'Shea's never been a DC so it would be unrealistic for them to expect he'd be able to fix Etch's D by mid-season. I disagree. Due to his experience as a player. He has been a part of some great defenses. And if you hear his former team mates speak, he was basically a coach on the field. He knows the CFL defense and could design one if needed. I have a hard time believing a future HOF MLB wouldn't know how. Especially one that spent basically his entire life around the Canadian game.

So what record will O'Shea have to achieve next year to earn another contract? 9-9? 10-8? Surely it must be better then .500. Not one single person said "close to .500"... every response before yours said minimum 9-9 or better... I agree we should be looking at 10-8 or 11-7... don't make stuff up to ridicule every poster on this forum... Also a 9-9 season is a playoff berth in the CFL.

Milt already said he was in for the OC position....just had a few demands. 2 days working from home (atlanta) and everyone wears #85 on O. I think we can make it work

You know you have a great point and is probably the reason MOS will never be a good HC he just doesn't have enough expertise or experience on ethier side of the ball to lean on in times of trouble.He desperately needs good experienced coordinators to be able to run a team.If they promote Buck with his limited experience it's just going to clearly show this limitation. Well....he certainly got off to a roaring start with MB, Tracy.....and Etch. I don't get the hole "he doesn't have enough experience" BS. The guy was a starting MLB for how many years in this league? He knows how a Defence works and how it should work. Saying he doesn't is flat out wrong. He's got plenty of experience on that side of the ball, even if it isn't as a coach.

What is elite in a 9 team league? Top 3? Top 5? He is neither of those...I disagree.Collaros was the hottest QB in the league before he got hurt and in my mind is #1, and Burris had a great season this year so that puts him at #2. (Of course Burris is just as likely to crash and burn next year like he did last year.) That leaves Mitchell, Harris, Reilly and Durant in the 2nd tier of QBs. (And possibly Jennings from BC? I did not see enough of him to say.) Willy is easily in their league. If you put any of those guys on the Bombers offence this year what do you think would’ve happened? Statistically speaking, if you extrapolate Willy’s numbers for an 18 game season he is right up there in the top 5 QBs. He would have had approx. 4100 yards, 24 TDs, 9 int., With a QBR of approx. 100. And that's with Bellfool as OC. You missed Ray. And I don't play the "if he had stayed healthy, he would have had..." game. That’s okay that you don’t play that game, but if you want to compare QBs and rank them, you kind of have to. I understand that every QB could add numbers to their totals in this way, but there is really no other way to compare. Ricky Ray in his prime was elite and I would have wanted him over anyone out there. He is no longer in his prime though. Going into next season he will be 37 years old and on the down side of his career. At this point in their careers, I would stick with Willy. It is my opinion that with a competent oline and a competent OC, Willy has the tools to be a top 3 QB. Fair enough but he hasn't shown that yet. Hell we chose Willy over Burris because Burris was on the downside of his career and now Burris just had one of the best years of his career and very well may win the Grey Cup. Now we're saying the same thing about Ray. Hmmm something about not learning from our mistakes.... Yes he has. When we is healthy is near the top or the top in all stats. He hasn't done it over an entire season due to injury. But when he's in there, he's one of the best.

I would hope the next OC isn't as closed minded about the QB position as you are. I'll give Drew Willy credit for his unbelievable toughness. But he hasn't played enough to prove he is worth $400k. Which is a problem for Winnipeg going forward. It means they have to allow a big percentage of the cap for QB if they want any real competition at the QB position. For example, let's say Harris or Ray is available. One of those guys could easily come in and beat Willy for the job. But they won't be cheap. (Assuming Wpg wants another pocket passer). How do we know they could? Did Harris do anything Willy isn't capable of? Has Ray been healthy enough to give out the big contract to? You are severely under rating Drew Willy here and I don't understand why. Watch the guy play and you see a guy in total control. He makes good decisions he can make all the throws you need. Give him an offense that doesn't handicap a qb and watch him put up some damned good numbers. You are falling into the grass is greener trap bigtime here. OK Ricky Ray we know and we know he's near the end of his career. Would rather see him come here as a coach than QB. But did Willy do anything Harris isn't capable of? Harris did throw for 33 TDs this year with a 100.7 QB rating in a very mediocre offence. Meantime Bombers have been starved for exceptional QB play for so long that even so-so looks amazing, it seems. I hope you're right and a healthy Drew Willy never gets hurt again and plays lights out under a new system. I really wish it could happen. But I don't think it will because I don't think he's as good as some folks seem to think. Many Bomber wins where Willy was QB came on the strength of sold ST and defensive play - offensive production was still putrid. But now that MOS has basically told the next OC like it or not here's your starter, I guess we are all going to get a chance to see what unfolds. Bass-akwards management tough, hamstringing the next OC. So you're putting the bad offence on Willy despite the overwhelming evidence that suggests it's MB that was the problem....ok...?

Slow read/slow release - but put up numbers that rivalled the best in the league until Defenses were able to que in on our Offence and our OC refused to adapt. And if you can't see that Willy could be mobile if needed I'm not sure what you're watching. Not to mention that the most successful QB in the history of Football (passing yards anyway) was a drop back pocket passer. Who needs one of those.

I wouldn't mind going after ssk Oc if we can. That offense wasn't the issue with the team. And considering how that situation plays out he may be looking for another opportunity

Yes but you'd be insane to think it was because of his offense.

Reasons his offense was terrible: 1. Joey Elliot 2. Alex Brink 3. Steven Jyles (was actually moderately effective for only time in his career under Lapo) 4. Broken down Buck Pierce In 2011 didn't bucks play in most games? Our offensive was horrible then too.

Marcel has himself a long track record in the CFL and it's not that pretty. Mediocre at best and consider this, when he was OC in Montreal people thought Calvillo was washed up because he was taking an awful lot of sacks... Marcel gets canned and Montreal is giving up less sacks and Calvillo goes on to have several more highly productive years. Bellefeuille is not a good offensive coordinator and yes there is likely more wrong than just him, but he's a big problem and probably the biggest problem. Yup, I would give Marcel the benefit if it wasn't for the fact his entire career has played out like this. He's had all star olines and made them look bad, he's had legendary qbs and made them look bad. Etc etc etc. Marcel undoubtedly was the biggest (not the only) problem with this team.