The Unknown Poster

I know there are a lot of people that dislike this decision. I dont know Franken well enough to say but the bit I've seen, he's a very good Senator who has served the cause of women's rights. However, my non-nuanced position is, if you want Moore out and you want Trump out, Franken is the sacrificial lamb to say we will not stand for this, regardless of politics. Edit: SNL alum...does he go back there?

As someone who has actually had a falsehood said about me (properly vetted and appropriate deemed absurd), I can see your point. But as someone who likes to think of themselves as a feminist (a Conservative one at that), my heart breaks for women brave enough to come forward who are declared liars and conspirators by the highest office in the US. So I think we've come to an agreement! And its not even lunch time. A success.

I know what you're saying. It just has little to no bearing on the topic. Its consideration for the outlier. I think we can all appreciate that. But other comments Basslicker made show he's more of the Moore/Trump defender ilk than the common sense 'ofcourse not every man is a predator' perspective. I would not lump you in with that position. I get what you're saying.

At the risk of getting my knuckles rapped for saying this, that is the most clueless thing ever posted on this forum and undermines the credibility of anything you have ever previously posted or ever will post. Just...wow.

Oh please. When we get even in the realm of that, Ill be right there with you. This isnt that, OBVIOUSLY. No one has suggested they want that. Its arguing a point that has never been made. The real risk is, in considering arguments like that is people like the Moore and Trump supporters can hold it up as "reasonable" in the face of clear and believable allegations to cloud them. We're talking about a situation in which the overwhelming truth is these incidents are happening and one or two people make sure to say "gee, it sure sucks for those men being accused because maybe its false". Huh? That's a defense for the abusers. Of course no one wants men to all be labelled predators. I mean, really.

LOL! Thats one way of clouding your position. But its not accurate. Its not a hard discussion. Its a veiled attempt to oppose the women (and men) who are bravely coming forward. Its lame and its absurd. I assume its a political thing which is unfortunate because it shouldnt be a political thing. You're free to argue whatever point you want but dont get knotted knickers because you're called out for a bizarre outlier perspective to a pretty clear issue.

No the take away from women feeling empowered to come forward after decades of abuse is "what about the men", apparently. At least for a couple of people here.

You're on the wrong side of the argument. Like really, whats the point? Do you think ANYONE here doesnt agree that false accusations happen or innocent until proven guilty isnt the right thing?

So you have provided examples of where the false allegation came to light, accusers used the law to sue. Good. Thats what its there for. Anyway, not sure what that has to do with the current "Harvey" wave of Hollywood creeps being outted. But I guess someone has to think about the creeps.

On this topic, the trend absolutely is for the mainstream to believe the women (or men) making the allegations. However, if you go to social media the accusers still take a lot of heat. In fact, look at how many women came forward about Trump and the White House called them liars. So it still happens that women are not believed at the highest level. But I think it mirrors a "justice norm". If you walk into a police station and make an accusation, the police treat it as valid...do their due diligence and go from there. But the same is likely true of most crimes. There is an air of believing the accuser which in most cases doesnt rise to "guilty" but to "okay, I will treat you like this happened while I investigate". And yeah, right now, its a hot button thing. But I still maintain, look at Takei...someone says something, he denies it, case closed. Ben Affleck was one of the first accused of inappropriate conduct, he apologized and it hasnt stuck to him. I think there is a weight to these that is reasonable for the most part.

I didnt do a deep dive into the methodology. But I imagine they have an idea. Of course, you are correct that it's difficult to know. But the number would be low based on the sniff test. Women that come forward are very poorly treated. The incidents where a woman makes an accusation strictly for revenge/anger etc are probably pretty easily determined (like in custody or divorce cases). Where there is more of a question, who knows. But again, for women to put their names to it and be subjected to abuse, there is probably a number we dont know of women who never come forward. So certainly, its difficult to quantify. But the discussion point here being "what about the men" just doesnt fly. Unless someone wants to defend Moore or Trump or Harvey. Beating around the bush is lame. If someone wants to say these guys are the victims, let's hear it.

@basslicker Im not saying you're wrong but if you claim many men have been destroyed in the US, please name them.

I find it so odd that some peoples reactions when so many men are being outted for their bad, abusive behavior is "wont someone think of the poor men". Im with you, where are all these destroyed men who were falsely accused? The VAST majority of cases recently include multiple accusers, vetted statements, reasonable stories and men who either dont respond or admit at least some wrong-doing. In the cases of one accuser and a denial, like George Takei, the story goes away. So what is the issue? According to CNN, allegations like this have a 2%-7% false rate. The idea that this is a wide-spread, rampant "revenge scheme" is absurd and another attempt to victim-blame. Does it happen? Ofcourse. But as discussed previously in this very thread, there was an attempt to set up the Post and they caught it...because they do due diligence.

Are you speaking generally or specifically about the widespread media coverage of this issue since the Harvey revelation or specific men who's lives are now ruined due to false allegations? I must be missing all the ruined men...

Its true they do usually over-cook them.

Wyatt says he is against ride ageing because he fears for the safety of drivers. Yeah right. And would rather spend his money on local businesses. Huh? No one is making you use ride sharing. Taxi industry should ask themselves why people are clamouring for ride sharing.

Flavour!

Thanks guys!

Thought I'd slip this into the Airline Thread. Im going to Cancun next week, first time to Mexico. Anyone have any pointers? I want to see some sights but have opted not to pre-book. I hear you can book excursions either through the hotel or often kiosks on the street are cheaper. Im tempted to go to Chichen Itza even though its basically an all day thing, but I figure when will i get the chance to see it again...and if it includes a Cenote and some local shops, why not. Other possibility is Talum which is somewhat closer and on the coast (beautiful view, it looks like). Anyone have any excursions or things they recommend or dont recommend? Thinking Coco Bongo's maybe one night too...expensive but sounds like a cool experience. Also, this might seem goofy, but might see Star Wars there so I dont have to avoid spoilers until I get back...looks like they have a "VIP" theatre at the mall.

@Logan007 I also enjoy Five Guys. The gf is vegan so she's hard to please but really likes their fries so its often times our go-to order in place since you get enough fries that its dinner for her and lunch the next day. When Im being weight conscious and eating Keto, Ill order their lettuce wrapped burger. Really tasty. Tried Fatburger once and felt it was like Five Guys but not as tasty. Never went back. Sals is great! Some of my earliest memories are going to Sals with my grandparents. Now it's my regular post-show tradition after a PCW wrestling show (Sals is next door), usually I gorge on the Big Earl.

Johnny's On Marion has a hell of a good burger. I dont know what they season their burgers with but it was great.

Correct me if Im wrong, but it only takes into account revenues directly to the team, right? Like for example, it doesnt factor revenue True North earns from operating the arena. So the money True North makes is much larger than just what this list would imply. I think teams have, in the past, said Forbes is way off.

What heinous thing is he linked to? I think apologizing for offending someone more or less ends it. I find it weird in a thread about sexual harassment and abuse, you're focusing on the lesser item and holding it up as some sort of stain on a guy's life. The fact we can all read it and say it was likely a stupid joke and he apologized lends itself to the idea that most people can see that.

The confusion is, you're arguing a point that isnt really apparent. Its a new twist on the "believe the accused" perspective. I believe in innocent until proven guilty certainly. And you know what, when someone slanders you, you can sue them. But none of these guys do. You know why? You can guess... As I noted previously, these are all incidents with an air of truth to them. If the first test is common sense, they all surpass it. We're talking about media that in most cases has vetted the stories. In fact, when someone tried to set up the Washington Post, they weeded it out. When someone makes a random accusation, it's not that everyone runs with it and a person has a stigma. Rapp made an allegation against Spacey. Spacey wasn't doomed. In fact, Spacey didnt really deny it. And he still wasnt sunk...until more allegations came forward. Ill gladly defend the man who has a random, unreasonable, suspicious allegation made. It hasnt happened yet. So why worry about it? All these accusations and truth that is coming out is a GOOD thing. Its an IMPORTANT thing. So why are we talking about something that hasnt happened in a way that would deflect the reality of victims coming forward? Should victims not come forward?

Who are we talking about that has been accused of sexual harassment, was completely innocent, and now has a stigma? One could make the argument for Michael Jackson but there was a legitimate criminal investigation and he didnt do himself any favours, and yet he still was making a comeback and was widely mourned for the genius he was when he died.