TrueBlue4ever

Maybe the Jets know how long the season can be and how nothing matters for a team like them until the playoffs start, so no point in playing with full intensity in game 37 if you are burned out in Round 1 (the "Boudreau effect" - copyright 2019 by TB4E). They knew that their talent could get them many wins, and they have led the Central for over 2 months now playing what most will say is far from their best hockey. Imagine being Tampa Bay and killing it with a 130 point regular season only to get bounced in the second round by Boston, or have to face Pittsburgh in the first round, how successful is their season then? Saw it with the Red Wings in '96.

I think the original branding had many (myself included) thinking it was another US expansion plan, when he more so wants to provide opportunities for Canadian college kids to keep playing if they can't crack the CFL by making connections in Mexico and Europe, and giving kids in those countries a goal to reach for by selling the Canadian game to them, and trying to expand the pool of players we look at, like the NHL and NBA did. He is also working on TV deals with Mexico and European countries, and extra revenue streams can't hurt. I commented to my wife at the event that he talks a good game and is quite the salesman. It may fall totally flat, but I respect his idea that the league needs to do more than just stay afloat in Canada and think bigger on a global scale, and that this can entice cities like Toronto that want to be more global. Will it sour the western purists who think "Canada first"? Maybe, but Ambrosie touched on that too, and recognizes the different mindset that western CFL cities have and their hatred of the East ("it's supposed to be that way - we get it"). But Winnipeg is not going to lose hardcore fans because we entertain the thought of Mexican players coming to our combines, and it might create a new stream of fans (and revenue) for the league by broadening our base. Not a bad idea overall. Let's just see how the execution plays out.

One man's take: 5 distinct skill sets, so I'll break it down into 3 areas and then vote from there. Wade Miller was a longer-serving special teamer than Brendan Rogers and put up better numbers as a tackling specialist, and has the CFL records to back him up. I pick him as the top tackler. Clatney, Howell, and Walker each had a stellar season or game as a punt blocker, but Rod Hill was a phenom in this area throughout his career, and is easily the best punt blocker in Bomber history (his angle to the ball was so exacting from the outside, he did not need a blocking breakdown to get through to the ball). Allan has his own piece of CFL history, but he was the beneficiary of the block in all cases, so I give credit to those who set him up to recover those punt blocks (most often Hill). Long snapper is a thankless position you only notice when you have someone who is bad at it, but it is an invaluable part of special teams. Imagine having to look backwards and upside down between your legs knowing a 300+ lb lineman is going to tee off on you every time when you snap the ball, and you can't afford a screw-up on a distance snap. We have had a pair of beauties in the last 15 years here. Rempel may be more technically proficient, but he has has as much success in his long career in other cities, and Cvetkovic was one of those "glue guys" in the locker room to boot. Great artist and caricaturist, and he also did a killer Arnold Schwartzenegger impression and kept the room from getting too tense. He was also a huge community guy, from his pet shelter and rescue operation to helping with the Haiti earthquake, he won the Ed Kotowich Award for community service. Man bun aside, I'll give it to Cvetty over Rempel by slim margin. Stoddard was dependable holder and very creative with the name and code signal for his trick field goal play, but only ran it once, so that won't earn him my vote. So down to Miller, Hill, and Cvetkovic for me. The thanklessness of the long snapper continues, as Cvetkovic was very reliable but not an all-time league best lime the other 2. Hill was the first true master at punt blocking, but he has been surpassed in career blocks since his retirement. Plus, he has already made the team for his work as a defensive back. Wade Miller showed up at camp and Chris Walby said "hey, who brought their kid to camp and let him play dress-up?" The equivalent to Notre Dame's "Rudy", he played linebacker and fullback and was all heart and guts - the smallest guy who never quit on any play or refused to accept that he was too small, too slow, or too unskilled to make it in the CFL, and just went out and excelled on pure hustle and determination. He gets my vote. Bonus points for staying in the community after his retirement to add to the business community, and then returning to pull the club out of the Joe Mack abyss.

Name me one retail sales clerk in a mall who makes $96000. That's the average CFL salary based on a $5.2 million salary cap and average roster size of 56 players. In fact, name me a sales clerk who makes $54,000/yr (CFL minimum). That would require an hourly wage of around $23, or double minimum wage. I get we are nowhere near as big as the NFL, but it doesn't mean we have to act like a second class league entertainment-wise. That is the mentality of the Commish anyway, according to his speech. Don't have to believe him, but he was a member of the CFLPA in his playing days, so when he says he is aware of the player's best interests I think he has a better frame of reference than most.

Cut down the size of the poll because the number was getting a bit unwieldy . This will be a bit of an apples to oranges comparison as I've tried to include the top 2 or 3 in each area, from those with big special teams tackle totals, punt and kick blockers and those who recovered blocked kicks, and long snappers and holders. Won't necessarily have stats here, so I strongly welcome testimonials from posters to endorse their favourites. Here are the bios: Wade Miller - 159 games in 11 seasons (1995-2005). Club record 184 special teams tackles (STT) - (#2 all-time in CFL history), CFL record 37 STT in 1999, led CFL with 35 STT in 1997 (#3 all-time CFL single season total). Grey Cup appearance in 2001. Brendan Rogers - 85 games in 5 seasons (1991-95). 124 STT (#2 club all-time), led CFL with 34 STT in 1994 (#7 all-time) and 31 STT in 1993 (#13 all-time). CFL record 7 STT in a single game in 1994. 2 Grey Cup appearances in 1992, 93. Paul Clatney - 36 games in 2 seasons (1988-89), single season club record 3 blocked punts in 1988. 1988 Grey Cup champion. Rod Hill - 90 games in 5 seasons (1988-92), club record 8 career blocked punts (CFL #3 all-time), 3 Grey Cup appearances (1988, 90, 92), 2 time Grey Cup champion (1988, 90). CFL Hall of Fame. Marcus Howell - 84 games in 5 seasons (2000-04), CFL single game record 2 blocked punts in 2000. Grey Cup appearance in 2001. Merv Walker - 77 games in 5 seasons (1974-78), single season club record 3 blocked punts in 1974. Michael Allan - 63 games in 4 seasons (1988-91), CFL single season record 3 blocked punt returns for TDs in 1988, CFL record for career blocked punt return TDs with 5. 2 Grey Cup appearances and 2 time champion (1988, 90). Chris Cvetkovic - 161 games in 11 seasons (2003-13), 66 career STT as long snapper, led CFL in STT by a long snapper in 2004 (16) and 2005 (11). Long snapper for Jon Ryan's CFL record 50.6 avg. punting season in 2005. 2 Grey Cup appearances (2007, 11) Chad Rempel - 63 games in 4 seasons (2005, 16-18), long snapper for Justin Medlock's STPOTY 2016 season, 3 time CFLPA all-star as a long snapper (2016-18), 13 total STT Jamie Stoddard - 151 games in 9 seasons (2000-08), 43 career STT, holder for FG, 1 career rush for 9 yards on fake FG, 2 Grey Cup appearances (2001, 07)

It's really saying something when Arizona Coyotes fans are saying "Can you believe what they are doing to give away these tickets?"

Ambrose addressed the rules and 3 vs 4 down game, and one interesting point he made was that the European leagues play their games in soccer stadiums on soccer fields, so they are already playing the game on a CFL sized field (the width is the same for both sports). Ambrosia wants to highlight the speed of the CFL game and uses the field size as a w at to exploit the speed. He talked a good game at the event, we shall see what if anything comes of it, but I like the idea that we need to think bigger than “we are a boutique league that is a stepping stone to the NFL”

Hill holds the CFL record for career punt blocks with 8. Micheal Allen holds the CFL record for TDs off of blocked punts with 5 (3 in one season is also a record) - pretty sure all of his TDs came off of Rod Hill blocks.

I hope Nelson either makes it big with the club or is cut early, so I can forget about him completely or have a better frame of reference for him, because right now I hear that name and all I can think is:

The all-time leader in punt return yeardage for a career was Jovon Johnson, with Bennett second. JJ was eliminated in the dual threat voting, and Bennett was bested by Hanson in the punt returner voting, so neither made the final vote-off. As for kick returners, Leo Lewis was the career leader by far in the kick return category. I think I will copy the bios once more to keep everything in one post for reference.

So we are down to final voting for the returners, as we selected Justin Medlock as the all-time kicker. Next up is the special teams player. This category will be limited to those who did the "other" duties on special teams, like those on the cover teams (either way) and other specialists like long snappers. Off the top of my head, I would throw out the following names: Wade Miller, Mike Miller, James Green, Henoc Muamba, Pierre-Luc Labbe, Brendan Rogers, Chandler Fenner, Donald Smith, Ian Wild, Shawn Gallant, Graeme Bell, Neil McKinley and Wayne Weathers among those who had high special teams tackle totals Rod Hill, Paul Clatney, Merv Walker, Marcus Howell and Michael Allen who excelled at blocking or recovering blocked kicks Chris Cvetkovic, Chad Rempel and John Bonk who were the long snappers on the team (Speedflex, was Bob Swift a long snapper too?) Would also consider anyone who was a great special team blocker or "broke the wedge" repeatedly, although this list of candidates is getting long already. Will try to get the bios up by Sunday, so add or subtract to this list before then.

I agree with the cheerleading comment. They would justify it based on the partisan display by the GOP on the other side, which was just as skewed, which is why I just read his opening statement and took it on face value as the truth until someone caught him in a lie on cross-examination with the questions, like JWR in Canada. In this case, since the Repubs ASKED NO QUESTIONS about his statement and went the character assassination route, his story held up. Same with JWR in Canada. The only dent Cohen might have taken was the position that he did not want a White House job and didn't get it as motivation for lying now to get revenge on Trump. I think easy to admit you wanted it and were offered it but declined due to conflict (he did most of this but refused to admit that he wanted the job in the first place) when even a pro-Cohen media outlet like CNN refutes that part of his story. Easier to deflect talk of personal gain (like the book deal angle) by saying "You think I lied, covered up, got caught and am going to prison and would keep perpetuating that lie for more prison time because I can score a big book deal, and that seems like a fair trade off to you?"

One man's take: So I voted for Lewis as my kick returner and AJ3 from the dual threat category as my kick returner there, so it is down to that pair for me. AJ3 had brilliant skill in both areas of kick and punt return, but if I limit my evaluation to his kick return ability, I say he falls short of Lewis' greatness. 3 years leading the CFL in kick return yards and 3 years leading in kick return average show that he was without peer in his era more so than Johnson was in his era. A ridiculous 29.1 yard career average on returns and a high of 32.5 - those are video game numbers with the game settings on "easy", and about 10 yards higher than the current numbers you'd see from a league leader. And his longevity also factors in, he kept up this pace over a decade rather than burning out after one or two years. So not even considering his revelatory work as a running back, Lewis is my choice here. And for punt returner, it's Hanson vs. Stokes (my choice as best punt returner from the dual threat group, nudging out Jovon Johnson who did not make this poll) for me. Bonus points to Hanson for legend status and his Hurculean effort in the Grey Cup, and always difficult to judge players across eras without stats information. Again, I see the TD return totals for Stokes, who was truly a return specialist and not just a position player thrown back there to field kicks, and I lean toward taking him. But if others want to see Fritz Hanson on this team somewhere, this may be his best shot. Again, I see AJ3 as even with Stokes as an overall returner, but focussing on punt returns alone Stokes beats him out (as would have Jovon), and I tend to edge them both ahead of Hanson for punt returns. So I will choose Stokes, but I won't argue with those who say Hanson should be the choice given his stature and the different blocking rules. Simply a personal preference fitting the limitations of this category in my mind.

So down to the final vote. Because the dual threat returner category had a tie with Stokes and Roberts, I have included them both in the poll options. So here is how it works: Vote for one name in each category, PR (punt returner) and KR (kick returner). The leader in each individual poll (Fritz Hanson for punt returner and Leo Lewis for kick returner) will face off against the challengers from the dual threat category, and you choose only one person for each category. So if you think that Leo Lewis was a better kick returner than anyone from the dual threat nominees, then vote for him. If you think that any one of the dual threat nominees was better SPECIFICALLY AS A KICK RETURNER, then vote for that one person. Then do the same in comparing Hanson to the same 3 dual threat nominees. You can consider the overall body of work and ability of the dual threat nominee in making the comparison, but remember that we are trying to identify a specific skill as a punt OR kick returner. So even if you feel that the dual threat returner was more talented overall, if you believe that as a specific type of returner, they fall short of the mark, vote for another person (ex. if you think AJ3 was overall a better returner than Lewis, but that Lewis was better in the specific area of kick returns, your vote should properly go to Lewis - at least that was my intention in devising the poll). Here once again are the bios: All-star recognition for returners began in 1986 Special Teams Player of the Year first awarded in 1999 Order of stats: returns-yards-average-long-TD Fritz Hanson – 8 seasons (1935-41, 45), no stats available, but here is a bio from CFLapedia: Hanson weighed only 145 pounds, but had incredible speed and elusiveness which earned him nicknames like "The Galloping Ghost," "The Golden Ghost," "Twinkle Toes" and the "Phantom Flash." Hanson joined the Blue Bombers in 1935 and helped lead Winnipeg to the first Grey Cup by a West team, upsetting the Hamilton Tigers 18-12. Hanson would go on to play with Winnipeg until 1941 when World War II got in the way and Hanson joined the Canadian Army. Hanson briefly returned to play for Winnipeg again in 1945, playing in at least one exhibition game before his Army duties forced him to retire for the season. In the 7 years from 1935 to 1941, the Bombers went to the Grey Cup 6 times, missing only once in 1936. Besides 1935, the Bombers and Hanson won two other Grey Cups in 1939 and 1941. That first win in 1935 was the big one though and while very few stats are available from that era, Hanson had 334 yards in kick returns that game including a 78 yard punt return for a touchdown. Hanson won West All-Stars (there were no Canadian All-Stars until 1962) in five straight years from 1937 to 1941. Canada’s Male athlete of the year (1939), CFL Hall of Fame, 6 Grey Cup appearances (1935, 37-41), 3-time Grey Cup champion (1935, 39, 41) Leo Lewis - 161 games in 12 seasons (1955-66), PR career: 3-21-7.0-12-0 (1960), KR career: 187-5443-29.1-91-1, best: 29 (1963)-854-32.8 (both 1957), led CFL in kick return yards (1957, 63, 64), led CFL in kick return average (1957, 58, 64), single season club record for kick return average (32.8 in 1957) and 3 of the top 5 single season averages in club history, #1 club all-time in career kick returns, yards, and average, 1962 Grey Cup MVP, 5-time team nominee for Most Outstanding Player (1958, 60, 61, 62, 65), CFL Hall of Fame, 6 Grey Cup appearances (1957-59, 61, 62, 65), 4-time Grey Cup champion (1958, 59, 61, 62) Albert Johnson III - 49 games in 3 seasons (2000, 2006-07), PR career: 233-1922-8.2-59-0, best: 85-810-9.5 (all 2006), KR career: 150-3282-21.9-96-1, best: 61-1506-24.7 (all 2000), MFG career: 16-619-38.7-122-1, best: 8 (2007)-277-69.2 (both 2000), team nominee for Outstanding Special Teams Player (2006), CFL Most Outstanding Special Teams Player (2000), CFL Rookie of the Year (2000), 2-time divisional and CFL all-star (2000, 06), Grey Cup appearance (2007), led CFL in kick return yards in 2000, led CFL in punt return yards in 2006, #5 CFL all-time in single season kick return yards (1506 in 2000), #4 club all-time in single season punt returns (85 in 2000), #2 club all-time in career kick returns, career kick return yards, single season kick return yards and single game kick return yards (198), club record for kick returns in one game (9) Charles Roberts - 131 games in 8 seasons (2001-08), PR career: 182-1735-9.5-75-2, best: 82-782 (both 2001)-10.8 (2002), KR career: 103-2151-20.9-50-0, best: 45-981-21.8 (all 2001), MFG career: 10-314-31.4-72-0, best: 5 (2002)-155-38.8 (both 2003), led CFL in punt return yards (2001), CFL Most Outstanding Special Teams Player (2001), West Division Most Outstanding Rookie (2001), divisional, CFL and CFLPA all-star (2001), 2 Grey Cup appearances (2001, 07), CFL Hall of Fame Keith Stokes - 37 games in 3 seasons (2004-05, 07), PR career: 176-1755-10.0-83-5, best: 80-949-11.9 (all 2004)-11.0, KR career: 108-2257-20.9-108-1, best: 56-1112 (both 2004)-24.6 (2007), MFG career: 18-448-24.9-75-0, best: 9 (2004)-185-37.0 (both 2005), CFL Most Outstanding Special Teams Player (2004), divisional, CFL and CFLPA all-star (2004), led CFL in punt return (949) and kick return yards (1112 – both in 2004), #3 club all-time in single season punt return yards, club records for single game punt return yards (154 in 2004), single season punt return TDs (4 in 2004), and career punt return TDs (5), #4 club all-time in career punt return average, #3 club all-time in single season kick returns, 4th longest kick return in club history

I go back to the debate with Hillary where she was asked why Putin feared her more than Trump, and she said Putin would rather have a puppet than a President. Trump took real umbrage at that quote, with a "I know you are but what am I?" schoolyard retort. Trump is a carnival barker, but isn't the underlying suspicion (and fear) that Stephen Miller is really the guy pulling the strings in the White House with his (let's be charitable and call it) Nationalist agenda? His handlers probably recognized the conflict of interest hurt them more politically than it did Trump financially, and they wanted him in power, so they tell him to deny any connection, rather than say "so what if I do?" We have heard so often his policy position is often the last thing he heard on the news that day, so it's pretty easy to imagine him being manipulated by his underlings to suit their needs, and just parroting the lines they feed him. As long as they remind him how popular he is and feed his ego with these rallies, he will think they have his back and go along with what they say. And getting back to what he fears most, I don't think it is not being liked that worries him, it is being outed as a weakling, when he has to project this tough New Yorker bully mindset. So he doubles down rather than admit defeat. That's why the Pelosi play on the wall shutdown (and the staged Oval office meeting where they got him to own the shutdown on the record and hang himself with his own words) was such a political masterstroke. The ultimate dealmaker being out-manouvered on live TV.

Don't think I heard anything that hasn't been uttered somewhere before, by the media, talk show hosts, or in court filings against others. Would have loved to have heard an answer to the question "What does Trump fear most?" from Cohen, rather than backing off. With respect to Trump doubling down even though he did not want the job and thinking he'd lose, that has always been his style. We've seen it when he's caught in an obvious lie with the factual counter-argument thrown in his face. His default is double-down rather than back-pedal.

So, did we learn anything new from Cohen's testimony yesterday, and will it have any real impact? Fascinating to see the responses to that versus the Wilson-Raybould testimony, and the fallout from that.

Would love to see each line get at least 12 minutes tonight, rather than overloading the top 6. This team needs to be more like the 2012 LA Kings IMO, where you can truly roll 4 lines and not burn out your stars.

No, this poll is just about returners. I did not want to have one poll with 24 candidates, especially since there are two positions to vote for. And rather than repeat some players in both polls and guess who should belong in which category, especially the 9 here who would arguably go in both sides, I thought picking one from those who solely returned punts, one from those who solely return kickoffs, and a pair from those who did both tasks, and then did a final comparison from those winners was the best way. But this is NOT about anything more than the ability to return.

I’m encouraged that Stokes is getting the votes he has, and a bit surprised by Roberts’ total. The club abandoned the idea of him as a returner by his 3rd year here and he was replaced by Stokes.

Roberts’ vote for you has now been included in the poll results.

One man’s take: This is a tricky one to sort out. The numbers show that most had one or two big years but flamed out quickly, but those big seasons were stronger than the work of those who played longer and had larger career numbers. Let’s try to sort them out one by one. Washington - strong punt return average, but really better as a kick returner. One monster season, and being on a weaker team that afforded him the chance to return a larger number of kicks (the most in any one season ever, in fact) inflates those numbers. Not at the top of either category for me. Stoudermire - one stellar season where he was the best in the league, but too small a body of work to top my list. Jefferson - reliable guy but not the best all time in either punt or kick returns. That gets me down to six who each have merit for one of the two spots. Roberts - as with his work as a running back, he made tons of people miss when they tried to tackle him, and could turn nothing into a 10-15 yard gain on any punt return, and always seemed dangerous when he caught the ball. However, he did not possess the breakaway speed that others had (the anti-Milt, he could actually be run down from behind - Stegall once said Charlie would get tired if he broke one for 50 yards, and needed a 20 yard head start to not get chased down). That lack of pure speed is reflected in a lower kick return average than others. His special teams award in '01 seemed like a consolation prize for not winning rookie of the year. Then the club stopped using him to return kicks and focussed on his amazing halfback skills. He will challenge in another category, so I will decline to vote him in here. Blount - the single greatest year any returner has had in club history, maybe league history. Was the club MVP in that abysmal 1998 season almost solely as a returner, and is #3 all time in CFL history in single season total yardage. Again, the lousy team gave him more chances to return kicks and pile up yards, but that 26.5 yard average is an obscene number (22 is a pretty solid number, 24 is usually league leading). I remember him better as a kick returner than punt returner, but again his 13.5 yard average that year is a staggering number when 9-10 yards is the norm for returns, and 11 often tops the league. Where most of the dual threats did both well but excelled more in one area, he was brilliant at both. Only the lack of longevity keeps him out of the top spot, but I would rank him as #2 or #3 in each area behind someone else in this group of 9. James - I feel like he is being woefully overlooked in this poll due to recency bias, and remember the lack of blocking on punt returns in his era and how gaudy that 9.1 return average now looks in comparison. Longer career leads to larger career numbers, but fewer touches in any one season gives him smaller one year totals. I guess his legacy is more running back than returner, so like Roberts I will ponder him in that category. AJ3 - When the media bestows upon you a nickname, they feel the need to label your greatness, like a brand name. So “Flight 87” was born. Still holds the record for all purpose yards in one game with a mind-blowing 474 in a wild night in Edmonton (we still lost that game), and of the two skills his work as a kick returner was superior. Hit the holes fast, and one miss and he was gone. He gets my vote as the best kick returner in this group (just edging out Blount) and one of my two selections for the final run-off. Stokes - For me, the mark of a great returner isn’t just the ability to get positive yards and have a decent average, it is the threat to take one to the house and put fear in the other team when they kick to you. Stokes was the master of that in his time here. I think it is accurate what was said by wbbfan about his boom or bust potential, but hard to overlook those 4 TDs in one season, and 5 in his career. And despite his prowess being more notable in punt returns, he is the only Bomber in history with 2 consecutive 1000+ yard kick return seasons. Bonus points for being brought back in 2007 when the club had no return threat and, despite all the weight he put on, taking one to the house in the East Final to upset the Argos and get the team into the Grey Cup. A couple more seasons and he would be a lock as the punt returner half of my duo in this poll. Jovon Johnson - the all time Bomber leader in career punt return yardage, and not only was he a threat to break one, he had a knack for doing it at the most crucial time. The only player to get 3 straight nods as the special team player of the year for the club. So down to him and Stokes for my second vote. 5 career TDs vs most career yards? 3 straight special team player nods vs overall skills as a kick returner too? Such a coin flip, but in the end, Johnson was a defensive back who also returned kicks, while Stokes was a return specialist first who moonlighted as a receiver. Stokes’ return abilities was the reason he had a roster spot, and at his best he outshoneJohnson’s best. Splitting the thinnest of hairs, I cast my second vote to Stokes, but there are maybe 5 here who would not be the wrong choice.

Sorry folks, this poll should not be closed yet. I’m having trouble with the editing. Maybe a mod could help? Supposed to be open until the end of the day Wednesday.

I will add a vote for him.

Did you mean AJ3 or Arland Bruce, who I did not include?