TrueBlue4ever

Just remember that one of my criteria was that only his Blue Bomber achievements should be considered a.k.a the "Geroy Simon" rule. Otherwise I'll just award the punter spot to Jon Ryan and tell Bob Cameron "thanks, now go back to renovating houses".

Wow, and I thought I spewed hyperbole. Which defence is that exactly? When I think of all-time great Bomber defences, I think 1984, 87, 88 (at least the playoffs) and 1990 as the best ever. Nothing from 2009-12 stands out for me as "best ever".

One man's take: Lots of choices here, some very solid players, but not quite the all-world pedigree or name recognition of other positions. Should make for more varied voting and lots of personal preferences. My analysis - Lakusiak - next Bobby Evans - some very nice numbers, quiet solid performer, but never mentioned in the Bomber greats discussions. Pass. Nash Jr., Phason - both at times were the best on the team, but never had the "wow" impact of an all-timer Darryl Sampson -same as Evans, Nash and Phason, very solid, fairly dependable, but never took his game to all-world levels. Bonus points for being a ratio-breaker (and teaching me that "non-import" in the CFL refers to any player who was not US born or trained. Who knew that Trinidad and Tobago also meant "Canadian"? Ken Ploen - hard to overlook his outstanding 1959 year, but let's face it, this is not the category to debate his all-time greatness in. D-I-c-k Thornton - OK, just the fact that I have to hyphenate his first name to get past the board censors should disqualify him. Actually, his name recognition and reputation may be higher than his actual achievements, but he did as much in Toronto as in Winnipeg, so that boosts his profile and maybe makes me biased against him. But he is out too. Now the choices that will start upsetting people: Jonathan Hefney - "little brother" to Jovon Johnson who kind of played in that shadow as well. Certainly some nice numbers and accolades, but his personality may be bigger than his overall greatness. In my mind, not as "all-time" as others on this list. May get more votes due to "recency bias", so I implore people to dig deeper when considering these options and not overlook the old-timers. Maurice Leggett - The single best Bomber defender for most of his tenure here, but not a true halfback. His defining moments came as a hybrid linebacker, so for me that knocks him down a peg. Half his numbers come from one monster season at linebacker, and surprisingly never made all-CFL (which speaks well of the CFLPA all-star team, this year's player choices sully that honour, though) Juran Bolden - His 2001 season is one for the ages, and I am hard-pressed to think of another halfback (although he was really a "rover") who forced teams to change their offences to avoid him. Amazingly, was not even the West defensive nominee, much less the overall winner for defensive MOP that year. And take away take revelatory year, and he may not have the overall mileage to be considered "the best of all-time". If we are going to consider longevity as a significant factor (the Bob Cameron debate upcoming later), then Bolden loses points in this group. My top 3, in no particular order, as I am still deciding who to cut from this trio. I told you you'd be surprised by my choices Tom Casey - this seems so unfair because I defy anyone to find an overall greater athlete for any era who has worn the Blue and Gold. Running back, passer, punter, punt and kick returner, and defensive back, and an all-star at multiple positions. He absolutely needs to be somewhere on this team, but was he the greatest ever at any of those positions? He may be better known as a running back, but his best shot at the team comes here, and he certainly had the numbers to back up his candidacy. One of only two Hall of Famers in this group. Plus, I have a soft spot for a man who went to medical school in Manitoba with my father 66 years ago. Ken Hailey - I am the generation of Bomber fan who grew up in the 1980's, so the 1984 team is the one that made me fall in love with football and the Bombers. Even then, when I talk about the best players from that team, I think Clements, Reaves, Murphy, Jones, Poplawski, House, Boyd, Brown. So this name may not at all be familiar with the generation who was weaned on the 2001 team as their zenith, but take a hard look at his achievements, and you are hard-pressed to say he does not belong at the top of this list. Stats are for losers they say, but how else to judge players over time against others (want to debate Gretzky vs. Orr, look at their numbers compared to each other and to their peers in the same positions over that era to truly appreciate how much better they were than anyone else). #2 in total INTs, games played and seasons on this list, #1 in yardage. One of only 2 players here with 3 Grey Cup rings, and no one had more CFL all-star nods. This guy was glue in that secondary, no hype, just a special player. And absolutely deserving of an "all-time" selection. Gord Rowland - Never saw him play, but I have heard whispers of the name, which is an achievement in the era of Ploen, Leo Lewis, Herb Grey, Tom Casey and the like. And those numbers are unparalleled (31 INTs!) and his recognition amongst his peers and awards puts him a step above. Listed as a "cover linebacker" which I suppose was the 1960's equivalent of today's SAM linebacker, who is a glorified defensive back covering running backs and fifth receivers. Don't have sack or tackle stats from that era, so I wish I could give a more complete analysis, but no one has more total all-star nods or Grey Cup rings.

Here are the nominees and bios for the all-time defensive halfback position. Once again, you can vote for 2 nominees. Juran Bolden - 46 games in 4 seasons (1995, 2000-01, 2007), 17 Int., 245 yards, 1 TD, 127 career tackles, 2 fumble recoveries, divisional and CFL all-star 2001 (tied for league lead with 6 interceptions, 61 tackles), Bomber nominee for outstanding defensive player in 2001 Tom Casey - 57 games in 4 seasons* (1952-55) (note that he also played a further 26 games in 1950-51, but only on the offensive side of the ball, those accomplishments not to be considered in this debate, he is expected to re-appear in the “running back” and possibly “special teams” polls), 23 Int., 426 yards, 3 TDs, 6 fumble recoveries, 25 yards, 1 TD, 3-time divisional all-star (1953-55) as defensive halfback (also 3-time divisional all-star as a running back 1950-52), led club in Int. in 3 straight seasons (1952-54) and CFL in Int. in 1953 with 7, CFL Hall of Fame Bobby Evans - 89 games in 6 seasons (1990-94, 1996), 20 Int., 215 yards, 1 TD, 7 fumble recoveries, 49 yards, 2 TDs, 8 sacks, 242 tackles, 2 time divisional all-star (1993-94), 1990 Grey Cup champion, 3 Grey Cup appearances Ken Hailey - 110 games in 9 seasons (1983-91), 27 Int. (tied #4 all-time in club history), 483 yards, 2 TDs, 5 fumble recoveries, 7 yards, 1 TD, 161 tackles from 1987-91, 3 time divisional and CFL all-star (1984, 85, 87), led club with 9 Int. for 240 yards and 1 TD in 1984, 3 time Grey Cup Champion (1984, 88, 90) Jonathan Hefney - 60 games in 4 seasons (2009-12), 13 Int., 25 yards, 6 fumble recoveries, 20 yards, 2 sacks, 241 tackles, 3 time divisional and CFLPA all-star (2009, 11, 12), 2 time CFL all-star (2009, 11), Divisional rookie of the year 2009 Gene Lakusiak - 102 games in 7 seasons (1968-74), 7 Int., 77 yards, 3 fumble recoveries, divisional all-star 1972 and 1973. Maurice Leggett - 72 games in 5 seasons (2014-18), 16 Int., 432 yards, 4 TDs, 10 fumble recoveries, 24 yards, 12 sacks, 257 tackles, tied for CFL lead with 7 Int. in 2016 (for 262 yards and 3 TDs) and 3 fumble recoveries in 2017, divisional all-star 2016, CFLPA all-star 2016 and 2017 *(both seasons as a linebacker), team nominee for outstanding defensive player 2014 and 2016 Harold Nash Jr. - 77 games in 5 seasons (1999-2003), 12 Int., 239 yards, 2 TDs, 8 fumble recoveries, 70 yards, 2 TDs, 196 tackles, divisional all-star 2001 and 2002, CFL and CFLPA all-star 2001 Vince Phason - 107 games in 7 seasons (1976-82), 21 Int., 370 yards, 1 TD, 6 fumble recoveries, 23 yards, led club in Int. in 1981 and 1982 (6 each season), divisional and CFL all-star 1982, team nominee for outstanding defensive player in 1978 Ken Ploen - 58 games in 4 seasons* (note that he also played a further 98 games in 1961-67, but only on the offensive side of the ball, those accomplishments not to be considered in this debate, he will re-appear in the “quarterback” poll), 17 Int. 216 yards, 3 fumble recoveries, 33 yards, led CFL with 10 Int. in 1959, 1959 divisional all-star as a defensive halfback, CFL Hall of Fame, 4 time Grey Cup Champion (1958-59, 1961-62) Gord Rowland - 163 games in 11 seasons (1954-64), 31 Int. #3 all-time in club history), 395 yards, 4 TDs, 9 fumble recoveries, 52 yards, 1 TD, 5 time divisional all-star (1957-58, 1960-62), 4 time divisional all-star game (1955-58), 2 time CFL all-star (1958, 1962), West nominee for outstanding Canadian 1958, 4 time Grey Cup champion (1958-59, 1961-62) Darryl Sampson - 161 games in 10 seasons (1986-95), 21 Int., 301 yards, 1 TD, 11 fumble recoveries, 66 yards, 2 TDs, 227 tackles recorded from 1991-95, 5 sacks, divisional and CFL all-star 1993, 2 time Grey Cup Champion (1988, 1990), 4 Grey Cup appearances (1988, 90, 92, 93) D-I-c-k Thornton - 69 games in 6 seasons (1961-66), 13 Int., 358 yards, 4 TDs, 6 fumble recoveries, 98 yards, 1 TD, 3 time divisional all-star (1962, 1963, 1965) and 2 time CFL all-star (1963, 1965), 2 time Grey Cup Champion (1961, 1962)

Voting ends today, and it seems certain that Rod Hill and Less Browne, the solid favorites in this category, will win out. One man's take: Hill is a no-brainer as the best Bomber corner ever. He will be returning in the special teams category as well. Browne was brilliant too, and fully deserving of the other nod. His 1990 season was one for the ages. I must say I was kind of hoping Jovon Johnson, with a solid third place finish, would have made this a closer race. When you compare the numbers, Browne's ceiling was certainly higher, but for the entirety of their Winnipeg careers, Johnson showed amazing consistency over his 6 years here, and some of his stats are eye-popping (370 tackles!). He also had more all-star nods, which shows how well he did compared to his peers over that time period. And when he earns the overall Bomber MOP, offensive or defensive, twice, that is something remarkable and unprecedented for a cornerback. In the end, Browne's overall career (CFL all-time best 87 interceptions, many of those with Hamilton) may have subconsciously played a role, as would have Johnson's decline and departure from Winnipeg (he may be as well known for his trash talk as his play - remember the year after his defensive MOP award and he records a pick against Edmonton in game one and boasts to the camera "that what happens when you throw against #2 - best player in the league" - oh yeah, the team was trailing 35-10 at that time).

I will say this - if CNN wants to shed the "fake news" label, they need to stop booking these gasbag guests like KellyAnne for their "talking panels". Get back to actual news and enough with the circus sideshow confronting known liars for "entertainment" purposes. As deplorable as Trump has been in his media attacks, his foes in the fourth estate sure do nothing to help themselves when they engage in this kind of grandstanding.

The info I gathered was slightly different. Only one CFL all-star nod (1976) and 2 divisional all-star nods (1975, 1976). 2 time team nominee for defensive MOP (1975, 1977), but never a Schenley finalist or winner. Never nominated as team MOP. Anyway, he will be listed next week.

Herosian will be placed in the safety category. Thanks all.

I actually have Herosian listed in with the group of halfbacks for this week's nominations, but I can put him in with the safeties for next week if that is more proper. Let me know the group's preference, but he will be included one way or another.

I honestly don't know, but I always thought "rover" best described what the safety position was meant to be.

That's just it. He has caused more harm to himself by trying to bury it than he ever would have had the story leaked when it did. Given what people in his base have forgiven him for or overlooked as it pertains to his moral character, I believe this story would have been a drop in the bucket. But now he can actually be charged with a crime (in theory).

Google "idiot" and see the images that pop up there. HINT: Looks like a Cheeto.

The weird thing to me is that Trump would even bury this story in the first place. I mean I get that he pays people off all the time, just look at his lawsuit history. But was he really that worried about a porn star leaking info about an affair that would derail his presidential campaign? If he was a normal politician, of course I could see it, but here’s a guy who, among many other things - called Mexicans rapists - mocked a reporter’s physical disability on camera - insulted a sitting US senator/war hero because he was a POW - mocked a Gold Star family - engaged in a racist smear campaign against a sitting President - ran a fraudulent “University” and charitable organization that were both fronts for personal financial gain - rather openly implied he’d like to date/sleep with his own daughter - admitted that he used his status as head of the Miss America pageant to walk into the dressing room to check out the naked contestants - bragged about grabbing women by their genitals “because when you are rich, you can get away with anything” all of this before he became President, and all very publicly and in most cases right out of his own mouth. So why fear the porn star coming forward? This is right in his wheel house to brag about, if anything. Would this revelation really be any more damaging than all of that other stuff?

Don't necessarily lump Willard in with his kids when it comes to not covering oneself in glory, and Ryan only plays on a rival team and talks smack like many pro athletes, so nothing too controversial there. I make no further comment.

When did Reaves become a heel in Winnipeg?

This is a fantastic history lesson, and highlights some of the intricacies and difficulties in doing a position by position poll over eras, which is hopefully part of the fun of this exercise. I cannot like this post enough - brilliant job!

Is that a lament, or a suggestion to remove him from the list? I have done up his bio, but he’s a weak candidate in the big picture IMO.

I think that could replace "MAGA" as the 2020 campaign slogan.

I plan to put Thompson in the safety category.

I intend to put Leggett in with the halfbacks, unless there is a strong objection (3 of his 5 seasons were at DB, although his 2 all-star nods were as a linebacker). I agree that he really was a defensive back playing in the linebacker spot to cover the 5th receiver rather than a true linebacker. Right now, I have 14 nominees in play from people's suggestions (and although I could eliminate 3 or 4 immediately whose numbers are in line with my scorned TJ Heath suggestion - and none of whom are 2 time CFL all-stars either) I will put in the entire list up for consideration Friday. Looking at the debate so far, I can say that this will prove much more difficult than the cornerback vote, with 7 different candidates that could be people's favorites based on the comments so far. I myself have got it down to 3 strong candidates in my mind, and likely not at all who others are thinking of. Hopefully people think outside the "if I didn't see them play, I won't consider them" box and consider the numbers and the all-star nods. Three things for sure - the debate will not end once voting is closed, a few posters are going to feel like "their guy" was completely and unfairly overlooked, and someone very good will not make the cut when it is all said and done.

That’s why this is the “all time” team and not “the last 10 years” team. Fullback will be voted on. I think we can agree that the #2 running back in this club will be a better player than the #1 fullback, but such is the nature of positional voting.

Sorry, all-time means all-time. One running back and one fullback.

He would be in tough to make the top 5.

Great thanks.

And Ty Jones, Aaron Brown, Tony Norman, Elfrid Payton, Buddy Tinsley, etc.......but I digress. Linebackers are still a couple of weeks away.