TrueBlue4ever

C'mon guys, i'm trying' here. Just because the Bombers appear to have no heart when they get down, I hope this board has more spine.

Before we write off the season in week 10, remember that even if we lost 38-37 to Calgary yesterday, it still would be a loss and we'd be 3-6, but I suspect the death march would be put on hold. SO, remember that we have: - 2 games against an 0-9 Rider squad left - 2 games against a Jeckyll and Hyde RedBlack team that won't surprise anyone anymore this year - a game against a rather plain looking BC team who we beat already and that has since lost it's best player for the rest of the year - a game against Montreal who we beat already this year and who are still not set at QB - Drew Willy, who is 3-1 when he starts and finishes games this year, will be back for all of those games except for the Riders. I'm not overly optimistic, but we are not dead and buried yet by any means.

The Stamps had wrapped up first place. It was a nothing game to them & they rested a number of key veterans. The focus was the western Final & not the Bombers. To the Stamps it was like an exhibition game & they played a number of backups that game. I don't think BLM or Cornish played the entire game. That's part of it. The bigger reason was that the game was played in a miserable blizzard and Calgary had 5 fumbles, a turnover on downs, had a field goal attempt from 25 yards out hit the upright, and a blocked punt that led to the Bombers only touchdown, and still only lost 18-13. Oh yeah, and that TD drive after the punt block was all of 4 yards and took 2 plays to get it in. Marve threw for 72 yards in one half of football - 42 of which was on one catch and run by Denmark (and Marve wasn't the QB Calgary had prepped for). People here are so fed up with Brohm that they mistakenly turned Marve into some sort of guru saviour without truly judging how unimpressive he was. He has racked up most of his stats in garbage time against prevent defences in blowout losses. Still better than Brohm and his one-skip passes, but fanboys had their blinders on because all we had was unjustified hope that we had a QB who could salvage another lousy season. Perhaps since Toronto didn't have much film on Marve they weren't sure how to defend his game at first. It took one half for them to get a read on his game and adjust, and Marve was essentially ineffective after the half. Calgary had a full game of tape on him and didn't need a half to figure out his weaknesses. These are the same weaknesses many of the doubters have expressed from the beginning (when they weren't being shouted down and labelled as negatrons) - no patience in the pocket, doesn't run through his progressions and looks to make a play with his legs at the first sign of trouble, and now a new weakness has come to light in the fact that he has no touch with the deep ball at all, making his skill set very limited and predictable.

I don't have the numbers to back this up but I think you have to look at the effect of a sack in stopping drives whereas hurries and hits can still result in a positive result for a particular play. It seems to me that the loss of a down (you only get two tries really) and the usual loss of yardage is far more important. Also holding penalties are not near as bad as sacks so they can't be given equal weight. At least in a holding penalty situation the team has a chance to recover from the setback unlike a sack situation where you just might lose the QB altogether as well as down and distance. I have seen that happen a few times. But to summarize this is just musings without statistical backing. Babble on. Here is a stat on that from the CFL: 171 drives where a team gives up a sack. A touchdown was scored on that same drive only 3 times.

What is the issue? In a word, talent. To be more complete: QB: Our starter is 3-1 when he starts and completes a game. He has the 3rd best efficiency rating and 5th best completion percentage among QBs with more than 25 passes, so the offensive schemes seem to work adequately enough for him to succeed. Problem is that we've played 8 games, not 4. We're 0-4 when he gets hurt or doesn't play. Buck Pierce syndrome all over again. With Willy we are competitive, without him, we are woeful (so far). He is tough but may be turning into a glass QB with the repeated pounding, and we do not have a serviceable back-up like Calgary, Toronto, Edmonton possibly (don't like Nicholls but they have kept winning), or even maybe Montreal (Kato has tailed off, but has shown more than anything we've thrown out there). Not enough depth here, therefore a talent problem. O-line: May be twice as good as last year, but as I always said when Zellers had a 2 for 1 sale on clothing, "2 of s#it is still s#it". No consistency, even from our so-called anchors (Bryant and Picard) and injuries here have exposed a lack of depth again. RB: Serviceable, but does anyone look at what we have and think "game-breaker who can put the team on his back" like you would with a Harris, Cornish, Messam, et al? WR/SB: On paper, looks OK, but no one looks at Denmark like he's a Bowman, McDaniel, Owens, Dressler, Grant, Green, Getzlaf, etc. who will get 14 passes and 100+ yards a game automatically and be "the guy", Moore is too injury prone to be considered a threat, and jury's out on Adams, but see Moore, Nick for injury comparable (in a limited sample). No big threat at Canadian receiver yet, just a couple of meal ticket guys (think Stoddard, not Cahoon). D-line: The whole is not greater than the sum of its parts. Turner can get a safety or be manhandled. Westerman can pile up the sacks, but have teams actively game-planned around his threat like an Elimimian, Foley or Odell Willis? LB: Or glorified DB's playing out of position, more accurately. Bass is good, no question, but the unit as a whole is nothing special. Hurl has been the whipping boy here all season, yet not enough depth to be able to replace him. DB: I like Adams, and Leggatt is solid no question, but still some glaring errors out there on coverages, notably from some vets (Washington comes to mind whenever a receiver is open deep and no DB within 10 yards of him on a clear blown coverage). Special teams: Your kicker is below 65% on converts, and yet not a whisper about his job security. Your best kick returner never gets to anymore because he has to play full-time DB due to a lack of depth at that spot to spell him off (Washington for those who didn't figure it out), your next best guy (based on performance this year, anyway) is not solid enough to be a starting receiver yet (Veltung), and your "starter" must have kidnapped the real Troy Stoudamire and is wearing his jersey this year. East/West may be a great tradition for the Grey Cup match-up, but it is a lousy philosophy for returning punts. Maybe someone should tell him - or bench him, if we had the depth to replace him, which I guess we don't.

Certainly there are reasons, some more obvious than others, as to the firing, but what is really strange is the timing. Axing him after a win is counter-intuitive. It would have been different if there was an outside hire who had been secretly courted and was finally ready to be put in place, but because it is Popp stepping into the role, it required no lead time to implement. So it might suggest that something happened after the game that triggered the move - except Popp has directly come out and said the decision was made before the game occurred. So why not bide your time until another loss and avoid the scrutiny of the move being motivated by "internal conflict" rather than the lack of success on the field? Much easier to sell it then.

Well I will answer you based on my imo. What concerns my most about MOS besides his poor game decisions and actions is his ethier lack of being able to discern talent or mere utter stubbornness when it comes to players and coaches. My 2 coaches are Etch last year and Bel this year and last.Both coaches are clearly have costed this team dearly.Leaving Willy in against Ham when it was turnstile time on the QB and Willy wasn't 100 percent to begin with also makes me ? MOS commonsense. Last he still refuses to name Marve our no 1 when Marve has shown more in one game than Brohm in 2 years. LAST we still have Brohm like Wtf for? I'm afraid MOS ain't the answer here but we are gonna wait as usual here till its too late.How many times are you going to make the same point? Hardly anyone agrees with you. Does that make him wrong? No it makes him extremely repetitive! So you agree that he's right, but because he doesn't share your mindset (which you are just as repetitive about) he's required to zip it? Nice mentality for a public forum. How about we all debate the issues rather than telling each other to shut up when our opinions differ?

Careful, that sounds like "Rider fan" talk.

I only call people stupid if they post stupid things and don't provide a proper argument to back it up. You on the other hand seem to be of the opinion that every opinion is valid because everyone is allowed their opinions. That's a quaint notion that I wholeheartedly reject. There are plenty of opinions out there that are devoid or merit and are indeed stupid. You don't like being called out on dumb ideas then maybe apply some critical thinking skills and come up with some opinions that aren't stupid. Or just take your ball and go home, that's what people who can't apply critical thinking tend to do. For what it's worth, you're way off the mark if you think people standing their ground flummox me, I spend all my time here trying to get people to stand their ground so I can have a proper argument. You're not interested in that though, you just want your lunatic ideas given credit but no one gives stupid ideas credit because they're stupid. In summary get over yourself and realize that people are picking apart your dumb ideas because they're dumb not because they're different. You're not as smart as you think you are. Yah. The next thing you know he'll get pissy with the regime at this site, complain that they are overbearing and controlling, and pack up and go start a new Bomber fan site. Ouch....the Rider fan is growing claws...meow!! Meow? So, am I now a Tiger Cats fan or a Lions fan? Geez, make up your mind.

Y is it around here when someone has a different opinion good or bad people like you jump on it as trolling? This is a forum no? Or is it a kumbyas let's not breathe a word of criticism your a troll only forum?It's more a case of choosing to believe that no one could possibly be that stupid so it must be trolling for a reaction. It's not about differing opinions, it's about opinions so unbelievably stupid.Ok who gets to decide that you?Noeller? If it is someone trolling just don't react no? Is Doug Brown an idiot too?It's a slippery slope your traveling.It's the stuff of kids in the school yard. The kids that have been there the longest think it's their school yard and they get to decide what is allowed. Read ahead and you'll see the terms laid out. It's basically threats "Ban him" followed by name-calling. "Stupid", "Troll", until the poor fellow conforms or leaves. Sad really. I'm not going to get into the reasons why they are like this but it is interesting to observe how flummoxed they get when the target of their aggression stands his ground and defies them. I wonder what happens next ... I only call people stupid if they post stupid things and don't provide a proper argument to back it up. You on the other hand seem to be of the opinion that every opinion is valid because everyone is allowed their opinions. That's a quaint notion that I wholeheartedly reject. There are plenty of opinions out there that are devoid or merit and are indeed stupid. You don't like being called out on dumb ideas then maybe apply some critical thinking skills and come up with some opinions that aren't stupid. Or just take your ball and go home, that's what people who can't apply critical thinking tend to do. For what it's worth, you're way off the mark if you think people standing their ground flummox me, I spend all my time here trying to get people to stand their ground so I can have a proper argument. You're not interested in that though, you just want your lunatic ideas given credit but no one gives stupid ideas credit because they're stupid. In summary get over yourself and realize that people are picking apart your dumb ideas because they're dumb not because they're different. You're not as smart as you think you are. Yah. The next thing you know he'll get pissy with the regime at this site, complain that they are overbearing and controlling, and pack up and go start a new Bomber fan site.

Shhh! You'll be branded as a Rider fan.

Rider sympathizer....or Rider fan? Hmmm..... Neither. I just find it comical (and pretty hypocritical) that Bomber fans on this site get so bent about how popular the Riders are nationwide and how boisterous their fans are about their allegiances, and feel they have to shout it down and de-cry it as a "myth". Sucks for them to be 0-7 and be so close in every game, certainly given the injury issues they have had, but I don't feel sorry for them. No one would feel sorry for the Bombers in the same situation. But I feel no overt need to throw it in their faces unless a fan fires the first shot directly at me (and to my face, not over a message board). But I find it sillier that people feel the need to be bothered by how supportive the Rider fans are, both at home and on the road, and the fact that the media comments on it, and the massive need to say "that's a lie!", or "it just gets soooo annoying" when the most ardent Bomber fans do EXACTLY the same thing, like it's OK for us to do it, but a crime for another fan base to. The perception of a strong Rider national fan base is not inaccurate - come to any Banjo Bowl and see how well their fans travel. This is just my opinion, but it smacks of sour grapes and a massive inferiority complex, like it takes away from how good Bomber fans are if we don't get the same props, or if another team gets any credit. And it is so predictable around here, when we do well we can revel in their failure, but when we have a struggling team that we can't puff our chests out about, we revert to the "well they suck too" and "they are in your face about it (like we aren't?). Just funny how childish it seems, and to me, this petty attitude and classlessness DOES reflect badly on our fanbase (and I don't expect anyone to adopt that last line of thinking). I am sure I am overreacting to most, but it is a pet peeve of mine. I don't need to tear down other anonymous people to make me feel better about myself - I don't want to give that kind power to others to determine my life happiness, especially fans of a competing sports team. Anyway, just my observation and opinion, no Rider flag waving intended. You've done this same rant enough times for me to conclude you are a Rider fan in disguise. Everyone watch out for this guy. If you're not with us, you're against us.....it really is that simple. I don't trust Bombers "fans" who aren't rabidly anti-Riders... i agree that this mindset is quite simple……but I think we are using that word in different contexts. And just to clear up any misconception as to my rooting interests, this "fan" has had Bomber season tickets for 34 years, so my allegiance is just fine without the need to insult other teams' fans, thank you. I'm sure your just as passionate, just in different manner.

Rider sympathizer....or Rider fan? Hmmm..... Neither. I just find it comical (and pretty hypocritical) that Bomber fans on this site get so bent about how popular the Riders are nationwide and how boisterous their fans are about their allegiances, and feel they have to shout it down and de-cry it as a "myth". Sucks for them to be 0-7 and be so close in every game, certainly given the injury issues they have had, but I don't feel sorry for them. No one would feel sorry for the Bombers in the same situation. But I feel no overt need to throw it in their faces unless a fan fires the first shot directly at me (and to my face, not over a message board). But I find it sillier that people feel the need to be bothered by how supportive the Rider fans are, both at home and on the road, and the fact that the media comments on it, and the massive need to say "that's a lie!", or "it just gets soooo annoying" when the most ardent Bomber fans do EXACTLY the same thing, like it's OK for us to do it, but a crime for another fan base to. The perception of a strong Rider national fan base is not inaccurate - come to any Banjo Bowl and see how well their fans travel. This is just my opinion, but it smacks of sour grapes and a massive inferiority complex, like it takes away from how good Bomber fans are if we don't get the same props, or if another team gets any credit. And it is so predictable around here, when we do well we can revel in their failure, but when we have a struggling team that we can't puff our chests out about, we revert to the "well they suck too" and "they are in your face about it (like we aren't?). Just funny how childish it seems, and to me, this petty attitude and classlessness DOES reflect badly on our fanbase (and I don't expect anyone to adopt that last line of thinking). I am sure I am overreacting to most, but it is a pet peeve of mine. I don't need to tear down other anonymous people to make me feel better about myself - I don't want to give that kind power to others to determine my life happiness, especially fans of a competing sports team. Anyway, just my observation and opinion, no Rider flag waving intended.

I see that this thread has gone from the shcadenfreude of MBBers reveling in the troubles of an 0-7 Rider squad that lost it's #1 and #2 QBs back to the insecure sour grapes of trying to convince everyone about the "myth" that is the national reach of Rider nation. Bombers must be on a losing streak with QB troubles of their own.

I'm thinking the foul language self-censor on this site is a bit hit and miss.

Well, that's cleared up my voting option nicely. ;-)

Not to mention Washington's great recovery in the endzone in knocking the ball away from the receiver. Reminded me of how school yard football was played. Still unclear why Dunigan thought that was pass interference . . . Not sure if the replays truly showed how good that recovery was. He stumbled badly when the receiver made the cut in the end zone and the ball was already in the air. From the stands I said "6 points right there". His closing speed after he got his feet under him was pretty spectacular.

Lulay calls a lot of audibles and with the crowd noise that just wasn't going to work very well. Which makes the hurry up more confusing to me. Seemed like they wanted to not let the crowd reset, but it didn't work, and was obvious it wasn't working from the beginning. I got the sense it was more to keep the Bombers from changing personnel than to combat the noise. They went back to it when Hurl was out with equipment issues and Bass was hurt for that short spell. They found a way to keep them both off the field. But Lulay's passing accuracy took a hit after that first drive, and the secondary tightened up. that as much as anything changed the tempo of the game.

I am sure Jimi was back stage thinking "man how am I going to follow that?" Totally. He was like "Man, can't top that. Might as well just pack it in and burn my guitar"

Missed last night's game. Am I barred from making the other 3 picks? Seems so. If not, and it's just a glitch, I'll take Edmonton, Calgary and Hamilton.

Forgot about this until after the Bomber game started. if I can still pick from another game, I'll take Adarius Bowman. If not, I'm at 4 strikes already, so not like my stay of execution would have lasted long anyway.

Replace Cato with Troy Smith... Let's give it some time before we annoint Cato. Lots of guys have looked good initially but not been able to sustain it. I'll throw Casey Printers Joey Elliott in as another guy who had early success and wasn't able to keep it going. FIFY

That's my point. "Better than Brink" did not equal "good QB", just like "Marve is better than Brohm" does not mean "Marve should be starting because he's so good". Many who want rid of Brohm think that Marve will come in and light it up, but like Elliot he could quite easily stink it up, and the coaches must believe that is the case based on not playing him and explaining how he is deficient in the areas they need him to be stronger in. Elliot's riskiness was not just riverboat gambler mentality, it was a fundamental inability to read the defence and exploit it. That was proven by the lack of success on any other team that took a chance on him afterwards. He was not a good QB, and "better than Brink" was such a low bar that people falsely elevated his ability to play because of it and pinned unrealistic expectations on him. I fear the same scenario with Marve now.

Two very good back-to-back posts gcn. I think you are bang on on both. This smacks of the Alex Brink/Joey Elliot situation three years ago (how soon we forget). Everyone hated Brink (with reason - he couldn't perform) and clamored for Elliot, then all the fan boys got their wish and Elliot started - and was competent for one game, sub-par by 2 once defences had tape on him, and had us begging for option #4 (or Buck's return) shortly thereafter. The Brohm situation needs to be separated from the Marve equation. Brohm is struggling mightily on the most basic stuff, namely getting the ball to the receiver on less than one hop. Mechanics? Confidence? The simple inability to throw a pass? I find it impossible to believe that he never had the skill in the first place, he's been around pro football for a decade, including the NFL. I saw him between plays in Edmonton actually pantomime the drop back and release motion before getting into the huddle, which I've never seen in a game before by a QB. Something is off in his head, and it was like he was trying to re-gain his muscle memory, much like a golfer after an errant swing or in his pre-shot routine. Got to think a lot of this is mental, and the constant chirping about Marve being better from the media and the chattering masses on this board, as well as being booed after one series at home has got to get to him, no matter how thick-skinned he is. Not sure he can re-gain that confidence again, or if the fan base will even give him that chance. Anyone want to give me odds on a bet that he will get booed in the first offensive drive BEFORE the first down pass - that is when he takes the field to start the first drive? 3:1? 2:1? Even money? I won't disagree that right now Marve couldn't be worse, but those who are waiting for a savior in him are most likely in for a rude awakening a la Elliot. The message from the team has been consistent (no need for conspiracy theories) - he doesn't follow the system (spare me the "it's because the system sucks" line - Willy seems to be doing more than well enough in it when he's not getting knocked out of games), and free lances way too much, doesn't go through progressions, and is so run-first mentality that he will be too easy to defend once teams figure that out and spy him with a linebacker and force him to beat them with his arm. The coaches clearly believe he is not ready yet, and Elliot is a great example on this very team how rushing a player into action because he "looks" better than option number 2 to the fans can be a recipe for disaster. I can hear people saying "Who is to say that Marve is bound to fail anyway? He's shown more and just needs that chance." OK, but clearly the coaches don't see it that way (and I'll still trust their judgment over a bunch of internet armchair QBs who have seen nothing but scrub-time action against prevent defences in Marve's case), and history has seen more examples of one-game wonders who flame out when pushed too quickly than those who instantly rise up and become stars out of nowhere. Patience among the fans has been exhausted by the 25 years of losing, and we are all praying for the next Ricky Ray/Rakeem Cato/Bo Levi Mitchell diamond in the rough, but sorry folks more patience is required. If you are out of patience right now, then you might as well turn in your tickets and stop visiting this board until the team is a solid contender again. See you in a couple of years if that is the case. I suspect the coaches are hoping that Brohm can get his head back into it and find that confidence again, at least enough to tread water, and that Marve and his skill set of stronger arm and better feet can pick up the mental stuff sooner than later. Actually I'm sure they are praying that Willy can play, and then the other stuff can be put off until it fixes itself over time, or adequate replacements can be made.

Garza. Sammy ******* Garza. Was that the son in law? You guys aren't even scratching the surface. Mark Jackson (back-up to Deiter Brock) Troy Kopp (minus 30 minutes vs Saskatchewan) Stefan LeFors Keithan McCant and the two biggies: T J Rubley Tee Martin