TrueBlue4ever

I’d say no (based more on who else is out there rather than them being not so bad), but they are the most well-known disliked pair.

RESPECT!

FIFY. The rest TLDR but I got the gist of it. 0% credit, 100% blame. Again. 2016 - 27.6 ppg, 363.7 ypg 2017 - 30.8 ppg, 361.4 ypg 2018 - 30.6 ppg, 369.4 ypg 2019 - 28.2 ppg, 349.0 ypg 2021 - 25.8 ppg, 346.1 ypg 2022 - 28.9 ppg, 360.7 ypg And yeah, Buck is slaying it, deserves a lot of credit for his part in it. Must have also had a good teacher. And a healthy QB. Probably did. And the guy who chugged early probably got too drunk to lift the Cup and passed out too early. The methodical guy made it to the end of the evening and was able to walk out the door with the Cup in his hands at the end of the night.

End of discussion.

Very aware of what Hull meant to hockey here and agree with his impact overall, but his (alleged) wife-beating and Nazi comments make a statue a non-starter.

‘K

Putting aside Durant’s ‘09 season, and Matt Nichols career in Winnipeg, I’ll just ask you how are the injuries to the Bomber playmakers in 2002 and 2003 the fault of the OC?

Does Khari’s best season ever under him count? Or Darian Durant’s development into a starter? Buck Pierce when healthy had possibly his best season ever under LaPo. Matt Nichols had his best success under LaPolice’s offence. As for Streveler, I would argue in part his “regression” as a thrower was in part due to teams getting tape on him and figuring out how to defend him (don’t let him run and force him to beat you with his arm). He had the same offence that Nichols and Collaros had but with poorer results, more INTs, and a losing record. LaPo was able to tweak his game around his option play running scheme, and it garnered him an NFL look. Where he continues to struggle as a pure passer in his first few years (see Bomber Esiason’s scathing commentary in game after a bad Streveler pick). I get the perception since other than Durant he has not taken a raw rookie and made him a solid starter. And he isn’t the QB guru like the Stamps coaches. But words like “no one” and “terrible” is the kind of exaggeration that leads to push back from the “apologists”. But don’t equate that defence with “he is blameless” because he isn’t. He is a micromanager which killed him as a head coach, because he couldn’t decide if he wanted to manage the game or draw up the offence, and he was incapable of doing both effectively. He is not head coach material, no debate there.

As long as we can agree that nothing was as gimmicky as Mike Kelly’s Jet formation or as arrogant as his call In show comments then everything else is Kool and the Gang.

Straddling the line between optimistic and delusional.

@Noeller I was legitimately asking what you disagreed about in my post or felt was off-base and wanted to comment on, but if you just want to throw stones at me we can move on from it and not derail the discussion, or you can PM me if you want to get something personal off your chest without the mods having to step in.

Wondering out loud, how many of the Ten Commandments has the anointed one broken? And how many of the seven deadly sins is he guilty of?

Feel free to elaborate on your eye roll, Noeller.

We could go back and forth for hours on this and never agree, so I will try to answer your question this way. I believe that his apologists do not believe he is blameless, and can acknowledge his flaws. But they see the opposite extreme in his critics, that he is the ONLY one to blame, and any success is never credited to him but outside factors. So they offer excuses (or examples) where they see that his detractors have exaggerated his mistakes and ignored his contributions, and it comes off as “you can’t see how lousy he is and make excuses for him” to those detractors. Just like the excuses for any success he had being totally not his doing (he had nothing to do with Milt or Khari’s success in 2002, Streveler succeeded and got an NFL shot in spite of what LaPo did to stagnate him, rather than how he changed the offence to suit Streveler’s strengths) creates push back. For whatever reason, he is a more polarizing figure than most. Some get very offended it seems if he is referred to as an “offensive guru” and use it as a derisive term when the reality is that he has had more success than not (statistically and in team wins and losses as a co-ordinator) with his schemes but is not re-inventing the wheel, others get equally offended when he is called “the most overrated” or “loser” when he has won more than he has lost as a co-ordinator, but has a poor head coaching record, and has been better in an established program than building it up from the bottom himself. Each side criticizing or praising in moderation could give a fair picture of what he brings and lacks as a coach, but the fight goes past him and to the stances of the posters themselves, so it becomes personal and the reactions to countering opinions becomes more defiant and immovable. Fair?

I remember being more sore about the holdout he pulled with two weeks to go in the regular season, upset that he had to share the workload with Blount and Mills. Got suspended by the team for the game in Toronto which they lost, ending their 12 game win streak. Team lost the following week against Calgary and never really got its mojo back in the playoffs. Also recall that Rick Worman got away from the spread-the-ball-around offence to give Roberts more touches to placate him after the walk out, and the offensive rhythm got out of synch. I stand to be corrected in the details as I can’t find any stories on Google to corroborate, but that is how my hazy memory recalls it.

Unless you say the name “Stegall” and perhaps “Cameron” I would likely not be surprised.

I’ll apply the leeches now and await the angry pitchfork mob for the stoning. Dammit, should have gone with the old reliable “I was hacked” argument to avoid this corporal punishment.

Simple answer #1 - can sell more tickets to the pre-season game that follows and make more money than wait for the already sold-out home opener. Simple answer #2 - no one.

Quite possibly. Did not intentionally make this up, but I was mistaken on the identity. I was wrong, and concede the point.

That and his quick, unceremonious departure from the club via trade. If half of the stories are half true, then he was the opposite of a FIFO guy. Not sure what regard the club holds him in despite his on-field accomplishments. Stegall was honoured by the club multiple times for his achievements, and every 10-15 minute ceremony was “here’s a custom framed jersey, here’s a custom chair with your number on it, key to the city, Order of the Buffalo Hunt, city street named after you, new stadium gate in your honour, come christen the new stadium with Ken Ploen and Matt Dunigan in uniform, now say a few words”, and with Roberts after he set the club rushing record was a quick two minute “hey you broke the record, here’s a TV for you” announcement. But from an on-field production standpoint, he was one of the biggest stars to ever play for the team.

I agree with this analysis of ROH suitability. It is very subjective as to what the criteria should be. It has to be much bigger than HOF for me. These are the guys whose numbers would be retired if the club did that. You say #85, no question who we are talking about. Or #6, #63, #11. These are players who when you say their names, it is synonymous with Blue Bombers and nothing else. The face of the franchise, who if you (and I say “you” as the average fan, not the die hards) saw out of uniform in a crowd at the mall you would instantly know who they were. And on top of that, I think you need to accomplish something no other player before you even did, that makes you the best ever, not just best at the time. This is key for me in considering the honour. Longevity will play a role in that as the stats pile up. That’s just my take, others will have their own, and that’s fine. But for me, RIGHT NOW (not assuming where we end up at the conclusion of 2022) Bryant is the only one I say is a lock. He’s the only 3 time MOOL in history. But I would honestly have trouble picking him out of a crowd of players (such is the nature of the position) and I don’t think casual fans around the league would automatically know his number. O’Shea Is definitely tracking there, but for TODAY is doing what Grant and Murphy did before him in terms of wins and Grey Cup rings. Collaros is on par now with Clements, Jones, and Jonas with MOP awards, and even with Ploen with consecutive rings. Now, a third straight Grey Cup and second consecutive MOP changes the narrative totally for them both and fast tracks them into lock status. Bighill and Jefferson are electric players but we’ve seen that dominance and awards before from Ty Jones and Greg Battle, so until they go up I don’t consider the current guys. Hardrick is HOF but not ring to me. Demski is not in the conversation for the Ring at this point, and would be even less considered if he were not a Winnipegger. Not dumping on him by saying this, but I ask “What has he done that no other Bomber before at his position has ever done that makes him the best of the best?” And I don’t see anything objectively to answer that. Just my two cents.

It absolutely does. Maybe it shouldn’t but it does. Walby was chosen as the first member ever of the ROH over Ploen, and the club even acknowledged at his ceremony how fitting it was that a native-born Winnipegger was the first one up there. When Harris goes up there, a large part of the narrative will be how the home town guy came back specifically to end the drought and restore glory to Winnipeg.