Is Drew Willy finished here?

[NotEZBeingGreen]

For whatever reason, Willy is in his own head right now.  He needed to be benched for his own good, not just the teams.  It is either going to light a fire under his ass or fold him like a cheap tent. He is in control of the outcome now.  What he does with it is going to definatively determine whether he is "done" with the Bombers or not.

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

8 hours ago, iso_55 said:

Showing my age here but I remember Don Jonas. he was the same way as you describe KJ. He was fearless & had a strong arm & the internal belief that he could complete every pass he made. So, he was a high risk, high reward qb. He'd throw into double coverage because he felt he could complete that darned pass no matter if he had bracket coverage. He won the 1971 CFL MOP Award & had something like 32 touchdowns & 30 interceptions. A stat that would be criticized today.  But the fans loved the guy because he was fearless & he played that way. I remember him throwing ints in the end zone or losing the odd game on a pick 6 but fans were okay with that because next game he would throw a 65 yd td pass & two more from close in. He was fun to watch.  

Ron Lancaster (same era, longer career) still holds the interception record. His career numbers are 333 TD and a whopping 396 Int.  Different times.

 

[BlueGoldBozo]

I sure hope not. We need to let this play out not throw him away until we have a better option, he may still be our best option.

I would have started him this week to see how me reacts to being benched last week and pull him at the the half if things weren't going well. I think pulling his starter role from him this week is too quick  and paints us in a corner if Nichols does OK but not great, what then do you pull Nichols ? I don't think Nichols is the full time answer. I might have considered going to a 2 QB system Give Willy 60 % of the 1st team reps Nichols 40% start Willy and pull him if it's not working. Like a poor mans Clements/Huffnagel duo.

Willy would do well I think on very good defensive team he does not cough up the ball a lot. I think back to some of those great Bomber teams like when we had Burgess, he would have done well on that team. But he is not a big play QB never will be so without a good team around him he can't drive the bus. 

Having said all that I can see why they did it I just not sure it's the right thing we'll see in the coming weeks.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2016 by BlueGoldBozo

[M.O.A.B.]

What if Toronto offer... say a 2017 1st Rounder and a national starter (Coombs or Miles or an OL)  for Willy, should the Bombers give in ?

Not to say it will happen. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by M.O.A.B.

[gcdrought]

6 hours ago, NotEZBeingGreen said:

For whatever reason, Willy is in his own head right now.  He needed to be benched for his own good, not just the teams.  It is either going to light a fire under his ass or fold him like a cheap tent. He is in control of the outcome now.  What he does with it is going to definatively determine whether he is "done" with the Bombers or not.

Respectfully, I don't know about this being "in his own head".  Maybe, just maybe, he is not all that good a QB to begin with.  We signed him when he only had something like 3 or 4 starts and a sub-.500 record.  He went 2-10 after a bit of a fluky and lucky start to his first season in Winnipeg (2014).  He went 3-3 last year before being hurt and he's 1-4 this year while healthy.  And if we're being honest, much of his yardage/TD success this year has been in garbage time of losses.

It's a team game so not everything should fall on the QB's shoulders when a team is struggling.  But the reality is Drew Willy is well-below a .500 QB during his CFL career.  Yes, the Bombers rewarded him a $400,000+ contract, but that wasn't based on successful results.  Willy will regain the starting role down the road if Nichols, pretty much a professional career back-up, stumbles as he likely will.   But personally I think the Bombers' view of Willy's talent level is much greater than the on-the-field reality.  I haven't given up on Drew, but there really doesn't seem to be any advancement in his play other than when the other team goes into a prevent defence mode.  Maybe it's a "head/mental" issue as you suggest and the talent will surface.  I hope you are right.  Or maybe the guy is just not all that good and his well-below .500 record is the real deal.

[TBURGESS]

53 minutes ago, M.O.A.B. said:

What if Toronto offer... say a 2017 1st Rounder and a national starter (Coombs or Miles or an OL)  for Willy, should the Bombers give in ?

Not to say it will happen. 

Yes, but it won't happen. No team wants Willy @ $411K.

[bearpants]

9 hours ago, wbbfan said:

He did, but he didnt do that alone. He did it with the best OL this team has fielded in some 25 years, the best rb and wr in history.  29 pics isnt ok. Thats pretty much guaranteeing you average 2 turn overs a game. During his prime years he averaged over 2 pics per 3 tds. For his career almost 3/4 of a pick per td. Henry burris has a considerably better td/int ratio. You only win with a great team around you when your tossin that many balls to the D. 

I believe you're (to quote Roger Clemons) mis-remembering a bit... Khari's quick release, combined with the excellence of Roberts, Milt and the rest of the WR core.... made up for an average O-line...

and I disagree with you about the turnovers... if Willy threw 2 picks for every 3 TDs and won 2 out of every three games... I would have zero issues with his turnover problems...

[bearpants]

1 hour ago, M.O.A.B. said:

What if Toronto offer... say a 2017 1st Rounder and a national starter (Coombs or Miles or an OL)  for Willy, should the Bombers give in ?

Not to say it will happen. 

sure... but this would never happen... Barker is not going to trade away a good chunk of the future for a band-aid (band-aid to Ricky Ray, not an injury related comment) QB...

[Tracker]

At the end of the game, we usually remember the outcome before the "how".

[JohnnyOnTheSpot]

27 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Yes, but it won't happen. No team wants Willy @ $411K.

A team might if their own starter is done for the year as that salary won't count toward the cap.  A trade, if it happens, will be after Labour Day when most of the 411 is already paid out by us. It would take the perfect storm though, a contending team needing a starter and willing to give enough futures to make it worth our while.

[Tracker]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyOnTheSpot said:

A team most of the 411 is already paid out by us. It would take the perfect storm though, a contending team needing a starter and willing to give enough futures to make it worth our while.

The Argos may be there soon. If their backup struggles and Hajrullahu does not improve dramatically, I could see Willy and Medlock going to Toronto but I'm not sure who we would want back- a first rounder plus Coombs?

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, gcdrought said:

Respectfully, I don't know about this being "in his own head".  Maybe, just maybe, he is not all that good a QB to begin with.  We signed him when he only had something like 3 or 4 starts and a sub-.500 record.  He went 2-10 after a bit of a fluky and lucky start to his first season in Winnipeg (2014).  He went 3-3 last year before being hurt and he's 1-4 this year while healthy.  And if we're being honest, much of his yardage/TD success this year has been in garbage time of losses.

It's a team game so not everything should fall on the QB's shoulders when a team is struggling.  But the reality is Drew Willy is well-below a .500 QB during his CFL career.  Yes, the Bombers rewarded him a $400,000+ contract, but that wasn't based on successful results.  Willy will regain the starting role down the road if Nichols, pretty much a professional career back-up, stumbles as he likely will.   But personally I think the Bombers' view of Willy's talent level is much greater than the on-the-field reality.  I haven't given up on Drew, but there really doesn't seem to be any advancement in his play other than when the other team goes into a prevent defence mode.  Maybe it's a "head/mental" issue as you suggest and the talent will surface.  I hope you are right.  Or maybe the guy is just not all that good and his well-below .500 record is the real deal.

I think they will give Willy until the end of the season to jump start his career and if he is unable to do so they will deal with him in the off-season. If you go back and watch the game after Willy was pulled they briefly show Buck meeting with the QB's and receivers on the sidelines.  Fair to say from his body language that Willy was not contributing to the discussion at that point.

[Fatty Liver]

2 hours ago, JohnnyOnTheSpot said:

Ron Lancaster (same era, longer career) still holds the interception record. His career numbers are 333 TD and a whopping 396 Int.  Different times.

 

I recall TD's and interceptions were often around a 1:1 ratio.  When you think of it an interception is one of the most exciting plays in football, no one likes to see them but they definitely add to the entertainment value.

[17to85]

3 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I recall TD's and interceptions were often around a 1:1 ratio.  When you think of it an interception is one of the most exciting plays in football, no one likes to see them but they definitely add to the entertainment value.

There has definitely been a shift in more recent years, offenses take less risks and avoid turn overs at all costs, but back in the early 2000s you saw players throw more interceptions. I mean Burris is a great example to use because he has played for such a long time. His interception numbers have dropped a lot in recent times and it's not because he got smarter (just listen to him speak and you'll realize he's the same dumb **** he's always been) just that what offenses do these days is different than what they used to do. 

[do or die]

Nobody likes to be benched.   Willy will be here, the rest of the year, and we will see him in there again.    The deal is what he can or will do about it.

[Adrenaline_x]

14 minutes ago, do or die said:

Nobody likes to be benched.   Willy will be here, the rest of the year, and we will see him in there again.    The deal is what he can or will do about it.

I'm hoping and thinking that with Nichols starting, it should take alot of pressure off Willy and if willy  enters the game due to injury or poor play from Nichols that he will go in with a nothing to lose mentality which may settle him down and let him throw deep and let his body do the thinking instead of his head. 

 

 

[rebusrankin]

Jones always threw more TDs than Ints and averaged over 12 wins a year from 01 to 03. There is a reason fans remember him fondly.

[Adrenaline_x]

8 minutes ago, rebusrankin said:

Jones always threw more TDs than Ints and averaged over 12 wins a year from 01 to 03. There is a reason fans remember him fondly.

I thought it was because her was so sexy.

 

[Tracker]

When I was watching the Toronto-Montreal game and not that emotionally invested in it, I had time to be more detached and objective. I watched both Ray and Glenn after each play and the difference was remarkable. As the players were gathering themselves after the plays, Ray was ordering them into position and urging them to hustle, whereas Glenn let everyone sort of wander back to where they should be. I don't recall seeing much of that generalship from Willy of late, if he ever did. That sure looked like the difference between being competitive and just being there.

[Guest J5V]

14 hours ago, Rod Black said:

The point I'm making, tracker, is that iso is quick to throw people on a garbage heap if they fail. My comment was a reminder to him of his lack of peace mercy and faith in people. It goes back to feudin' days. It was a shot, to which he replied in a satisfactorily diffused manner. 

I C Kahari' view of a life not being over after football, should be noted. A commendable post illustrating hope.

Oh. I thought you were referring to the Mac Herron thing.

[KptKrunch]

Lots of good stuff here. I liked the comment about Nichols being his last shot. That's true - he wants to be a #1 - probably why he re-signed in Wpg. Don't forget, when the Esks first signed Reilly, he wasn't signed as the #1 - they signed him to battle Nichols for the #1 job. Esks didn't want to 'hand' anything to Nichols, they wanted him to 'earn' it (there's a novel concept). 

Unfortunately, Nichols had his knee blown up in the home preseason game (which he had started and looked very good though again only pre-season) and Reilly got the job defacto and the rest, as they say, is history.

Nichols is motivated and should do well here tomorrow night. I'm really looking forward to the game and hoping for a good one. I really don't want to see a blowout. 

Assuming Nichols does well though - it's not Thursday's game that will define it IMO. It will be the next few games. If Nichols maintains a high level of play and moves the ball consistently, then I think Willy will be released (as mentioned earlier he is untradeable - his contract is far too big just like Glenn's was). They'd have to release him before Labour Day I believe though - otherwise they're on the hook for the whole thing so you may as well hang on to him at that point. 

 

[gcdrought]

2 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I think they will give Willy until the end of the season to jump start his career and if he is unable to do so they will deal with him in the off-season. If you go back and watch the game after Willy was pulled they briefly show Buck meeting with the QB's and receivers on the sidelines.  Fair to say from his body language that Willy was not contributing to the discussion at that point.

I tend to agree with you, and seemingly Paul Wiecek as well based on his most recent column.  There does seem to be an accountability issue with Willy. He felt he had nothing to prove this year when asked in an early season presser, despite a 10-14 career record with the Bombers and a $410,000 salary. And he could have been more invested on the sidelines as you suggest.  It may not be in his nature, but a greater sense of urgency and passion would definitely serve him well.

Edited July 27, 2016 by gcdrought

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, bearpants said:

I believe you're (to quote Roger Clemons) mis-remembering a bit... Khari's quick release, combined with the excellence of Roberts, Milt and the rest of the WR core.... made up for an average O-line...

and I disagree with you about the turnovers... if Willy threw 2 picks for every 3 TDs and won 2 out of every three games... I would have zero issues with his turnover problems...

later in the years it was average or worse. But not in the first hand full of his best years. When dave mudge was the best ol in the league the ol was a strength of the team. 

 Your missing the point. If willy threw 3 tds and 2 picks every game we'd only win with a much better team around him. 

2 hours ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

I recall TD's and interceptions were often around a 1:1 ratio.  When you think of it an interception is one of the most exciting plays in football, no one likes to see them but they definitely add to the entertainment value.

2:1 was the gold standard 1:1 has never been a good way to keep your job. 

[Mr Dee]

The Bombers, (Paul LaPolice) are doing everything in their power to provide the kind of offence Willy needs to 'survive'. But I don't know if they're doing him any favours, or just playing into his safe mode. There is only one person who can get Willy out of this, of course, and that is Willy himself.

He should be pissed. He should be itching to get back on the field and throw some gawd-damn TD passes. Not for "Coach Lapo" or for "his very nice Head Coach", but for his own sanity. But he can't QB 'safe' or 'scared', that just won't work. He's got to face that injury demon and force him back in the box. Otherwise, he's finished here.

Willy can QB, but in may be in another uniform.

[Tracker]

The Feep today was pretty critical of Willy's attitude as well.