OK, it IS Willy ...

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, WBBFanWest said:

Killing blow?  That happened about three and a half minutes into the 1st quarter when we went up 14 - 0.  They scored 11 points in the whole game, so we actually had a bunch of killing blows because we scored a whole bunch more than 14.  Listen, yes, scoring more points in the 2nd half would have been nice, but here's the thing - we didn't need to.  We held them in check for the whole game and that's not luck.  

Last time I checked, the idea is to score more points than your opponent and it really doesn't matter at what point of the game you get them.  We did that.  If we had ended up winning the game 37-35 or something similar, where they mounted a 2nd half comeback and almost beat us, your argument might have some validity, but that's not how it went down.

And yes, we need to work more on or run game, and maybe get better execution on the deep ball, but I suspect that compared with earlier this year, there are few teams left that see us as the free space on the bingo card.

no. did you see their come back from virtually the same score in edm? In the 2nd half they started driving the ball and def were not out of it. 

31 minutes ago, Goalie said:

Luck? Maybe if you win a game on a 50 yard fg with no time left. That's luck. But winning by a score of 37 to 11? Yeah that's not luck.... that's an ass wooping. 

Bombers were the better team vs Hamilton and have been both times they played them this year. If anything I'd say Hamilton is kind of lucky cuz while 37 11 is an ass wooping.... it could have been way more. We beat them earlier 28 24... luck? Nope. Should have been another ass wooping. 

Wonder if Ottawa fans right now think they were lucky to beat edmonton tonight cuz hey... Reilly threw a pick that lead to the winning Ottawa fg. Probably not tho.... because bottom line... they won. That's all that matters  

Not sure why you'd say this game was luck... I mean we won by 26 points... no luck required. 

Why can't you just be happy we won the game? Cuz man winning by 26 and saying we were lucky makes me think you be trolling people bro 

That doesnt mean luck at all. We have a kicker who has a good ability to hit the deep kick and that can be a close tight hard fought game up to that point with a masterful drive to win. Khari put one together years ago with westy kicking a fg to win and it wasnt luck. It was execution. 

Score doesnt mean a whooping. Look at the scores early this year we lost some one sided games and had a close score. 

a pick. not 6 turn overs, and a return for a td called back to the 10. 

 

[WBBFanWest]

Just now, wbbfan said:

no. did you see their come back from virtually the same score in edm? In the 2nd half they started driving the ball and def were not out of it. 

That doesnt mean luck at all. We have a kicker who has a good ability to hit the deep kick and that can be a close tight hard fought game up to that point with a masterful drive to win. Khari put one together years ago with westy kicking a fg to win and it wasnt luck. It was execution. 

Score doesnt mean a whooping. Look at the scores early this year we lost some one sided games and had a close score. 

a pick. not 6 turn overs, and a return for a td called back to the 10. 

 

Yes I did.  However, that was a different game.  The question is not "what could they have done" but "what did they do".  The Bombers kept a lid on them for the entire 2nd half so yes, the Bombers were quite aware of what the Tiger Cats had done the game before and had a counter for it.  And no, they were most definitely not "in it"  They were able to move the ball some, but they couldn't score.  That's sort of the point, isn't it?  If you don't score then all you're doing by moving the ball is grinding down the clock.   It's almost like the Bombers had film on what the Tiger Cats had done and knew what to expect.  Either that, or they were just really really lucky.

 

[Tracker]

If the team under Nichols continues this level of play, the Bombers are a .500 team. With Willy at the helm, we were/are looking at 4 and 14 or at best, 6 and 12. If Davis or Bennett cannot match that, why are we keeping them?

[Jesse]

25 minutes ago, tracker said:

If the team under Nichols continues this level of play, the Bombers are a .500 team. With Willy at the helm, we were/are looking at 4 and 14 or at best, 6 and 12. If Davis or Bennett cannot match that, why are we keeping them?

I don't understand this comment.

Bombers are 2-0 under Nichols, how do you equate that to a .500 ball club? Not trying to suck back the kool aid and say we're going to be amazing all of a sudden, but where is your projection coming from?

And I really don't get your comment on our back up QBs. Why are we keeping our depth? Should we cut everyone on our roster who isn't a starter) what are you talking about?

[White Out]

There's two clear minority camps who are talking the most about Willy and Nichols and their effects on the game, whether they admit it or not.

After our first win against Hamilton folks like wbbfan had zero negative things to say about our lackluster 2nd half or, frankly, offensive production all game long. Not a peep about the turnovers and how lucky we were. Yet after this 2nd win against Hamilton, a far more dominant win, he and a couple others are keying in on that. It strikes me as a bit hypocritical but in the context of Willy and Nichols it makes sense. They're so convinced Willy is the man, and of his SSK hype and first 5 games that they're willing to look for flaws in Nichols they ignored in Willy. 

It actually is incredibly frustrating to no end to read.

[Goalie]

I don't think it's like that at all, I actually think theres 1 group who wants to get rid of willy so badly that they really don't have any clue what they are talking about and would be the first to be complaining when Nichols gets hurt or struggles and we are forced to play Davis. Then theres the other group, who tend to see the big picture a bit more, who perhaps aren't fooled by what Nichols is doing because they have seen it before, and realize that despite what a couple people say, Willy will see the field again and we will need Willy eventually. Perhaps sitting right now is best for him, he's obviously got some mental hurdles to figure out, but... gonna need him eventually to come in and when he does, cuz it is a when he does, not an if, it's when cuz Nichols is not this saviour that some people are making him out to be, Then we will see what happens. 

Nobody is pretending that Drew Willy is the man, or some god, everyone to a man or woman, has agreed that he has struggled this year BIG TIME. I see nobody on here saying he hasn't. I actually think, i'll take that line there and change a name up.... They're so convinced that Nichols is the man, and of his 2 games of hype and ignore the rest of his career that they want to get rid of Willy because they ignore the flaws in Nichols. 

This isn't about Drew Willy vs Matt Nichols.. it never has been, never will be, anyone  who thinks it is... they are out to lunch. Stop making it about Nichols vs Willy.. It's not, 

 

Pretty sure most people here are bomber fans, i say most cuz i read comments about wanting to get rid of Willy and think, well, maybe not all people are fans... because the bottom line is in the CFL, you need 2 QB's.... despite what some say, we have 2 good enough QB's right now in Willy and Nichols... Nichols and Willy, whatever.... No freaking way you get rid of Willy cuz Nichols has had 2 good games, just like No way you'd get rid of Nichols if Willy does the same when he's back starting. 

What's frustrating to read? People basically hoping Willy fails...That's frustrating to read. Cuz Bottom line, if you want a player to fail, I'm not sure how much of a fan you are in the first place.... Like i said, I'm pretty sure most people are bomber fans, and as bomber fans, don't we all jsut want the team to win? Does it matter if it's Nichols or Willy who is the QB? It shouldn't, but apparently to some, it does matter. 

 

 

[IC Khari]

We can only go by the present as the past is irrelevant considering the levels of play. The smart coach will go with the player who gives us the best chance to win consistently ultimately, this year it's been Nichols.

[Tracker]

22 hours ago, Jesse said:

I don't understand this comment.

Bombers are 2-0 under Nichols, how do you equate that to a .500 ball club? Not trying to suck back the kool aid and say we're going to be amazing all of a sudden, but where is your projection coming from?

And I really don't get your comment on our back up QBs. Why are we keeping our depth? Should we cut everyone on our roster who isn't a starter) what are you talking about?

The honeymoon with Nichols is great, but we are not going to win every game from here on in and there are weaknesses in the team which will cost us a few games to come. Moreover, as far as every player on the team is concerned, there is a cost/benefit ratio. We have had things go our way for a couple of games under Nichols, but the breaks are not always going to go our way and we have to be realistic.

Willy's salary is a big debit on the books and sooner or later, Walters has to look at Willy and ask whether he is worth $22,222.00 per game to hold the clip board. If Walters and O'Shea can get the same degree of performance out of Davis and/or Bennett as they are getting from Willy, they have to look at that.

Edited August 8, 2016 by tracker

[Eternal optimist]

The Bombers played as a team and handled the lengthy weather delay like professionals. Time will tell if benching Willy will result in his resurgence, but if I'm O'Shea, I'd be starting Nichols until he gave me a reason not to. By no means is Nichols our savior, his history of play indicates he's questionable at best as a starting QB in the CFL, good enough to be a back-up but you're not going far with him as a starting. That said.. if it's Nichols' presence and leadership that helped fire up the Bombers on Thursday I'd say at least it keeps the rest of the season somewhat interesting.

[Tracker]

13 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

The Bombers played as a team and handled the lengthy weather delay like professionals. Time will tell if benching Willy will result in his resurgence, but if I'm O'Shea, I'd be starting Nichols until he gave me a reason not to. By no means is Nichols our savior, his history of play indicates he's questionable at best as a starting QB in the CFL, good enough to be a back-up but you're not going far with him as a starting. That said.. if it's Nichols' presence and leadership that helped fire up the Bombers on Thursday I'd say at least it keeps the rest of the season somewhat interesting.

We are probably going to see Willy on the field again before the end of the season, and we ought to pray it will not be as a starter. Nichols has earned the right to be the starter but he is going to have a bad game or two.

[IC Khari]

39 minutes ago, tracker said:

We are probably going to see Willy on the field again before the end of the season, and we ought to pray it will not be as a starter. Nichols has earned the right to be the starter but he is going to have a bad game or two.

... as opposed to every game for Willy this year ;).

Edited August 7, 2016 by IC Khari

[Eternal optimist]

1 hour ago, tracker said:

We are probably going to see Willy on the field again before the end of the season, and we ought to pray it will not be as a starter. Nichols has earned the right to be the starter but he is going to have a bad game or two.

Agreed, it doesn't make sense to have Willy on the bench considering how much we're paying him. Hopefully Willy is just in a slump and is the real deal, although he hasn't really shown it this year.

[White Out]

2 hours ago, Goalie said:

This isn't about Drew Willy vs Matt Nichols.. it never has been, never will be, anyone  who thinks it is... they are out to lunch. Stop making it about Nichols vs Willy.. It's not, 

I don't know how it is you can pretend like this isn't a huge issue right now. Just look at the 2 game threads post Hamilton games. It's literally a 180 for one group of posters on how they reacted to the game. First win with Willy and it was all sunshine and rainbows. Second win with Nichols, a far more dominant win, and it's all talk about the turnovers and D winning it for us and discussion of woe for the 2nd half offense.

I also disagree with your assertion we will eventually need Willy. Why? What has he ever accomplished? He had a stretch of 5 good games 2 years ago and has been inconsistent and a losing quarterback since. And he's older than Nichols. 

I feel like people clamoring for Willy need to watch Frozen and learn to just let it go.

edit: my 2nd paragraph is predicated on the likelihood we release Willy this off season. No one, even Walters, is going to pay him 400k a year for his performance. Barring Nichols falling off and us losing again (and who wants that?) and Willy coming back and regaining a form he never actually had and playing like an elite QB... he isn't a 400k QB. We need to start moving on.

Edited August 7, 2016 by White Out

[IC Khari]

If you keep backing a loser, you're gonna lose ...

[Fatty Liver]

14 hours ago, IC Khari said:

If you keep backing a loser, you're gonna lose ...

Walters can sit, watch and wait for now but because of the size of Willy's game day pay-cheque I think he has to have a plan of action ready to roll and a countdown date in mind for dealing with Willy.  Unfortunately for Willy his contract has potentially sealed his fate, much as it did for Clarence and many of the vets. cut loose in the off-season.  Performance has to be measured against price and hard numbers may disguise the real story but ultimately tell no lies.  Accounting 101: Fish or cut bait.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[BlueGoldBozo]

What are the exact rules for releasing Willy ?

Would it be worth it ?

Could you release and resign ?

 

 

[17to85]

You know what, I honestly think that there wasn't much difference between the actual offense in both Hamilton games, the reason one was a close game and one was a blow out to me comes down to a couple things. Firstly the defense was better in this second one. They got themselves off the field quicker and obviously didn't give up as many yards or points and the other factor is that the special teams won their battle by even more and the field position in that game was heavily tilted. Field position in the CFL is such a big thing and the Bombers had great field position all night this past week. 

[Rich]

I find it highly unlikely that Willy will be released mid-season.  

I don't see how it makes sense.  What player would you sign at this point that cutting his salary would allow you to bring someone else in?    Muamba is someone that comes to mind, but he has already signed on with an NFL team, and I think I'd still rather keep Willy around this season for depth.  Most other players brought in at this point won't be commanding a large salary.

But if we did want to cut him:

4 year veterans get their full salary after the 11th regular season game. 

5 year veterans get their full salary after the 10th regular season game.

This is Willy's 5th year in the league (not sure if that makes him a 4 or 5 year veteran), so you'd have to cut him before one of those games if you wanted to re-coop the remaining salary.  Also to take into account is how much of his salary was paid in pre-season bonus.

Of course, in the off season, the QB situation will have to be reconsidered and addressed.

[Fatty Liver]

13 minutes ago, Rich said:

I find it highly unlikely that Willy will be released mid-season.  

I don't see how it makes sense.  What player would you sign at this point that cutting his salary would allow you to bring someone else in?    Muamba is someone that comes to mind, but he has already signed on with an NFL team, and I think I'd still rather keep Willy around this season for depth.  Most other players brought in at this point won't be commanding a large salary.

But if we did want to cut him:

4 year veterans get their full salary after the 11th regular season game. 

5 year veterans get their full salary after the 10th regular season game.

This is Willy's 5th year in the league (not sure if that makes him a 4 or 5 year veteran), so you'd have to cut him before one of those games if you wanted to re-coop the remaining salary.  Also to take into account is how much of his salary was paid in pre-season bonus.

Of course, in the off season, the QB situation will have to be reconsidered and addressed.

So it looks like game #10 is Walters deadline to come to a decision on Willy's future.  I don't think he would use any money saved to bring in new players but could use it to re-up some of his current players he wants to hold through next year.  He has a handful of very good new players that are probably playing for close to the league minimum.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Throw Long Bannatyne

[Mike]

This thread scares me.

First of all, there's no such thing as the "CFL red zone", that's just flat out wrong. Unless you want to suggest that you have it right and the league has it wrong, because for the purpose of their official statistics, they classify the red zone as the 20 yard line.

Second of all, it's really not surprising to me that a particular poster keeps preaching on and on about a Nichols vs. Willy argument that nobody is making. You can put me in the "Willy is a better QB" camp and I'm still happy that Nichols won, I thought he played great, I don't think the second half was an issue at all - it was pretty obvious they were just playing to get the game over with healthy at that point - and I'm very in favor of the decision to allow Nichols to continue starting. What I see is someone who is putting so much stock into the emotion of the decision - "Willy has scorned us and he must go!" - and thinking everyone else saying it makes sense to keep Drew is saying that because they're as emotionally invested as he is.

Keeping Drew Willy for this season is the intelligent football decision. Even if he doesn't play another snap this year. We still need a #1 and a #2 quarterback and Nichols is still a QB that has battled injuries, much like Drew Willy has, throughout his career. If Nichols gets us back into the playoff hunt and then goes down in October, do you want Dominique Davis starting meaningful football games for us? No? That's why you keep Drew Willy. And there's another very real possibility that people around here have been discounting as well - the benching of Drew Willy seems to have lit a fire under the ass of our entire roster. It's very, very possible that if Drew gets another opportunity through injury or through another QB benching that we'll learn he wasn't exempt from that. He very well could come back as a different QB - it's happened before him, it'll happen after him.

[Mike]

5 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

So it looks like game #10 is Walters deadline to come to a decision on Willy's future.  I don't think he would use any money saved to bring in new players but could use it to re-up some of his current players he wants to hold through next year.  He has a handful of very good new players that are probably playing for close to the league minimum.

There's no decision to be made here. Trust me.

[TBURGESS]

The 5th highest paid player in the league is our backup QB because his job has been taken by Nichols, but we need to keep him on the roster until the end of the year just in case he turns he game around on the bench or in case our cheaper starter goes down? That's the argument?

[Fatty Liver]

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

There's no decision to be made here. Trust me.

Of course there is a decision to be made, even if Walters takes no action before game #10 that constitutes a decision he has made to continue on with Willy.

[Mike]

10 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

The 5th highest paid player in the league is our backup QB because his job has been taken by Nichols, but we need to keep him on the roster until the end of the year just in case he turns he game around on the bench or in case our cheaper starter goes down? That's the argument?

I don't understand how you possibly think that's a poor argument.

It's not like there isn't precedent for this kind of decision. Did Buono cut bait with Lulay last year?

[Bigblue204]

17 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

The 5th highest paid player in the league is our backup QB because his job has been taken by Nichols, but we need to keep him on the roster until the end of the year just in case he turns he game around on the bench or in case our cheaper starter goes down? That's the argument?

cause you know, starting QB's never get hurt in the CFL. and Nichols has finished every season he's played healthy....