OK, it IS Willy ...

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I was in that boat as well. Finding that line when you need to pull the QB versus let him work it out is where Coaches earn their salary. I still think bringing the starter to the sidelines for a couple of series to reset himself and watch the game from a different view isn't done enough imo.

Going out for an extended period is really hard on the qb. The arm cooling off is a big deal. Takes them out of the proper mind set too, even if they are struggling. Similar to in baseball when the offense has a bat around inning and the pitcher is on the bench for an extended period. Thats why you dont see it often.

[17to85]

Ahh it was always too early to pull Nichols last night. Yeah he was off but gotta give guys a chance to work it out.

[The Unknown Poster]

Nichols is obviously just talented enough and smart enough to be effective. Spectacular? No. Can he win a game by himself? Probably not. But he isn't losing games. Should ride him til a change is needed. But Willy will get another shot to show he's the guy we all thought he was. 

[HardCoreBlue]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Going out for an extended period is really hard on the qb. The arm cooling off is a big deal. Takes them out of the proper mind set too, even if they are struggling. Similar to in baseball when the offense has a bat around inning and the pitcher is on the bench for an extended period. Thats why you dont see it often.

Fair enough though could keep arm warm while watching, Sometimes I think they don't actually have the proper mind set when their on the field and needs to be reset by coming off for a few series. But do understand the risks you highlighted in doing so. That's why the great coaches get the big bucks.

[HardCoreBlue]

5 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Ahh it was always too early to pull Nichols last night. Yeah he was off but gotta give guys a chance to work it out.

Totally agree, got to give him a chance to work it out, it's more of figuring out when that chance to work it out is taking too long. For example, looking back at the tape of last nights game, in hindsight would SM say he should have pulled Kilgore maybe end of 3rd quarter?

[do or die]

Nice to have a team that can pick up the QB, if he gets off to slow start.................

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Fair enough though could keep arm warm while watching, Sometimes I think they don't actually have the proper mind set when their on the field and needs to be reset by coming off for a few series. But do understand the risks you highlighted in doing so. That's why the great coaches get the big bucks.

Its an easier said then done kind a thing. Different coaches and teams have different ideas and ways of going about it at half time but then you have enough time to generally reset. The start of the 2nd half can almost be like a 2nd game for the qb. 

Its a tough thing no one really seems to have mastered. But we have gotten close to the point twice now where we needed to do some thing to shake things up. 

1 minute ago, HardCoreBlue said:

Totally agree, got to give him a chance to work it out, it's more of figuring out when that chance to work it out is taking too long. For example, looking back at the tape of last nights game, in hindsight would SM say he should have pulled Kilgore maybe end of 3rd quarter?

Cody fajardo is a huge change of pace at qb. Going to him would have been such a drastic shift for the argos offense or defense it could have snapped some life into them. For the short time, it probably would have been best. Long term however,  young qbs especially need the chance to work through trouble and see as many snaps as possible. There is a very limited amount you can improve sitting on the bench. I would have changed qbs in that situation, but SM likes to put his qbs in the hardest situations possible. The end of that game is exactly the type of thing he wants his young guys in. 

Fajardo, 4 year starter at nevada. Which alone is considered a big deal. But his stats. 

9659 passing yards 65% completion 57 tds 29 ints 3482 rushing yards (2 1k seasons) 44 rushing tds. 

SM digs up stud prospects, and turns coal into diamonds with pressure. Hard to argue with his results. 

[Mr Dee]

Nichols was 17-28 for 246 yards..not player of the week stats, but what isn't shown in the stats, that was emphasized especially on one drive, is when Nichols stood in the pocket and delivered a strike, without happy feet, when blocking was breaking down. That drive led to a TD and broke Toronto's will. I thought right there that it wasn't a play that Willy would have completed...result? ...end drive...no TD...closer game.

It's the little things that Nichols has done, (quick releases, quick reads, good fakes ie. the long Denmark TD, and the nice touch passes on th long throws) that has taken his 'average play' and pushed it enough to guide the Bombers to wins.

Real nice to witness that our backup QB can come in when needed and get the job done. That hasn't happened in a long time.

[Doublezero]

23 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Nichols is obviously just talented enough and smart enough to be effective. Spectacular? No. Can he win a game by himself? Probably not. But he isn't losing games. Should ride him til a change is needed. But Willy will get another shot to show he's the guy we all thought he was. 

FWIW, not everyone thought Willy was the guy. Some might have thought he never, ever showed enough to be a starter.

[White Out]

13 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Nichols was 17-28 for 246 yards..not player of the week stats, but what isn't shown in the stats, that was emphasized especially on one drive, is when Nichols stood in the pocket and delivered a strike, without happy feet, when blocking was breaking down. That drive led to a TD and broke Toronto's will. I thought right there that it wasn't a play that Willy would have completed...result? ...end drive...no TD...closer game.

It's the little things that Nichols has done, (quick releases, quick reads, good fakes ie. the long Denmark TD, and the nice touch passes on th long throws) that has taken his 'average play' and pushed it enough to guide the Bombers to wins.

Real nice to witness that our backup QB can come in when needed and get the job done. That hasn't happened in a long time.

Ill agree with this part of your post, and disagree with the bottom part. Nichols confidence in  the pocket and ability to throw medium to deep passes is clearly the difference between our two qbs

As far as you saying that he's our backup and coming in and doing the job,  I think it's pretty clear at this point there is no 'clear #1' for our club. Nichols has done too good a job as the starter.

[wbbfan]

23 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Nichols was 17-28 for 246 yards..not player of the week stats, but what isn't shown in the stats, that was emphasized especially on one drive, is when Nichols stood in the pocket and delivered a strike, without happy feet, when blocking was breaking down. That drive led to a TD and broke Toronto's will. I thought right there that it wasn't a play that Willy would have completed...result? ...end drive...no TD...closer game.

It's the little things that Nichols has done, (quick releases, quick reads, good fakes ie. the long Denmark TD, and the nice touch passes on th long throws) that has taken his 'average play' and pushed it enough to guide the Bombers to wins.

Real nice to witness that our backup QB can come in when needed and get the job done. That hasn't happened in a long time.

Nichols got happy feet under pressure 3 pivotal times last night, 2 dropped picks one should have been a pick 6 and a throw behind. Take away the big plays that denmark made and you have scary stuff. The same stuff we saw in the first half, and last half of last game.

nichols doesnt have a particularly quick release. And in fact in the first half of last nights game he reverted to a drop windmill in his delivery that has plagued him in college, edmonton, and here last year. Its what you see when a qb is forcing things typically. He has been doing a good job of going down the check list, but has made some really poor decisions forcing the ball into small windows with a surplus of defenders around 1/2 wrs. he doesnt have the kind of arm that can make up for those decisions either. Hes been taking a lot more deep shots then willy, but he misses a lot. His strength is similar to willy. Short to medium passing routes.

Its not any of his plays that has taken us and guided us to wins. Its the utterly ridiculous amount of turn overs we have forced, and maybe the best sts in the league over all.

[pigseye]

The long TD drive after the fumble recovery was the game changer. 70 - 80 yard drive? eating up the clock and grinding on the TO defence, that was impressive and very timely, those are the drives you need your qb to put together when it counts.

[Mr Dee]

10 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Nichols got happy feet under pressure 3 pivotal times last night, 2 dropped picks one should have been a pick 6 and a throw behind. Take away the big plays that denmark made and you have scary stuff. The same stuff we saw in the first half, and last half of last game.

nichols doesnt have a particularly quick release. And in fact in the first half of last nights game he reverted to a drop windmill in his delivery that has plagued him in college, edmonton, and here last year. Its what you see when a qb is forcing things typically. He has been doing a good job of going down the check list, but has made some really poor decisions forcing the ball into small windows with a surplus of defenders around 1/2 wrs. he doesnt have the kind of arm that can make up for those decisions either. Hes been taking a lot more deep shots then willy, but he misses a lot. His strength is similar to willy. Short to medium passing routes.

Its not any of his plays that has taken us and guided us to wins. Its the utterly ridiculous amount of turn overs we have forced, and maybe the best sts in the league over all.

Hey, it's easy to pick out the bad points in any one person's performance, as each and every player out there commits errors and makes poor decisions. We could have a field day picking apart Nichol's performances, but I chose to highlight some good points that led to a Bomber victory. 

You, on the other hand...

 

[Mike]

The thing about Nichols that I should say to give him credit: he hasn't been playing his best football. Three game winning streak and he can play better.

Lots to get excited about!

[Doublezero]

13 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Nichols got happy feet under pressure 3 pivotal times last night, 2 dropped picks one should have been a pick 6 and a throw behind. Take away the big plays that denmark made and you have scary stuff. The same stuff we saw in the first half, and last half of last game.

nichols doesnt have a particularly quick release. And in fact in the first half of last nights game he reverted to a drop windmill in his delivery that has plagued him in college, edmonton, and here last year. Its what you see when a qb is forcing things typically. He has been doing a good job of going down the check list, but has made some really poor decisions forcing the ball into small windows with a surplus of defenders around 1/2 wrs. he doesnt have the kind of arm that can make up for those decisions either. Hes been taking a lot more deep shots then willy, but he misses a lot. His strength is similar to willy. Short to medium passing routes.

Its not any of his plays that has taken us and guided us to wins. Its the utterly ridiculous amount of turn overs we have forced, and maybe the best sts in the league over all.

So we won the last 3 games despite Nichols? Give your head a shake man. He was forcing things and a bit reckless with the ball last night. But he still threw for 2 TDs, fed the ball to Harris and managed the O decently well. The fact you now have a functioning QB has given the entire team a lift, whereas players previously had given up on Drew Willy.

[wbbfan]

Just now, Mr Dee said:

Hey, it's easy to pick out the bad points in any one person's performance, as each and every player out there commits errors and makes poor decisions. We could have a field day picking apart Nichol's performances, but I chose to highlight some good points that led to a Bomber victory. 

You, on the other hand...

 

nichols was on the verge of being pulled. and its the 2nd week in a row he played half a game or less. cant just cherry pick good stuff and ignore the bad when  we win and the bad and ignore the good when we lose.  Its not all qb. Win or lose.

[Doublezero]

3 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

nichols was on the verge of being pulled. and its the 2nd week in a row he played half a game or less. cant just cherry pick good stuff and ignore the bad when  we win and the bad and ignore the good when we lose.  Its not all qb. Win or lose.

In the CFL you need a decent QB to win. Otherwise, you lose. Bombers are an excellent illustration of this. Poor play by the QB drags the whole team down as players lose confidence that the O can muster anything. Decent play by the QB lifts the entire team.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Doublezero

[White Out]

2 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

nichols was on the verge of being pulled. and its the 2nd week in a row he played half a game or less. cant just cherry pick good stuff and ignore the bad when  we win and the bad and ignore the good when we lose.  Its not all qb. Win or lose.

This criticism didn't occur from you when Willy was our Qb. That's just a fact.

[Dirty30]

I've lost all hope in Willys ability to make the quick decisions needed to be a productive starting QB in this league. His confidence has been shattered and I can't help but think that he is suffering some effects related to concussions. He just reminds me of Pierce near the end of his career. Dazed and confused. When he has the ball he just seems to either not be processing quick enough or he is second guessing way too often.

[WBBFanWest]

19 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Nichols got happy feet under pressure 3 pivotal times last night, 2 dropped picks one should have been a pick 6 and a throw behind. Take away the big plays that denmark made and you have scary stuff. The same stuff we saw in the first half, and last half of last game.

nichols doesnt have a particularly quick release. And in fact in the first half of last nights game he reverted to a drop windmill in his delivery that has plagued him in college, edmonton, and here last year. Its what you see when a qb is forcing things typically. He has been doing a good job of going down the check list, but has made some really poor decisions forcing the ball into small windows with a surplus of defenders around 1/2 wrs. he doesnt have the kind of arm that can make up for those decisions either. Hes been taking a lot more deep shots then willy, but he misses a lot. His strength is similar to willy. Short to medium passing routes.

Its not any of his plays that has taken us and guided us to wins. Its the utterly ridiculous amount of turn overs we have forced, and maybe the best sts in the league over all.

You know, when I read your opinions, it's like you are trying way too hard to show us just how much you know and how you see the minutiae of each play.  Here's what I see:  we won, and everyone had a hand in it.  Ultimately, if Nichols had "happy feet" on three plays, I could care less.  We won.  That's the only stat that actually matters in the end.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 minute ago, Dirty30 said:

I've lost all hope in Willys ability to make the quick decisions needed to be a productive starting QB in this league. His confidence has been shattered and I can't help but think that he is suffering some effects related to concussions. He just reminds me of Pierce near the end of his career. Dazed and confused. When he has the ball he just seems to either not be processing quick enough or he is second guessing way too often.

The however part for me it sure does feel good that we have Willy to come in if necessary. Depth, Depth, Depth. 

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, WBBFanWest said:

You know, when I read your opinions, it's like you are trying way too hard to show us just how much you know and how you see the minutiae of each play.  Here's what I see:  we won, and everyone had a hand in it.  Ultimately, if Nichols had "happy feet" on three plays, I could care less.  We won.  That's the only stat that actually matters in the end.

You never have to read my comments if you dont like them. How you perceive them really isnt of any matter to me.

This is a forum for talk and opinion. Not a blind cheerleader squad. We won, and it feels great especially to be on a win streak. But that doesnt mean you blind your self with rose colored goggles. Thats how you end up with the incredibly toxic nature we see in losses and rough stretches. 

Three plays off the top of my head where it nearly cost us dearly. 

 

[White Out]

Just now, wbbfan said:

You never have to read my comments if you dont like them. How you perceive them really isnt of any matter to me.

This is a forum for talk and opinion. Not a blind cheerleader squad. We won, and it feels great especially to be on a win streak. But that doesnt mean you blind your self with rose colored goggles. Thats how you end up with the incredibly toxic nature we see in losses and rough stretches. 

Three plays off the top of my head where it nearly cost us dearly. 

 

The irony of this post is so far off the charts its ridiculous. When people were critical of Willy earlier in the year it was the total opposite. It's not 1 player, etc etc. 

[Dirty30]

7 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

The however part for me it sure does feel good that we have Willy to come in if necessary. Depth, Depth, Depth. 

I agree but Davis is a much cheaper back up and dare I say reliable. Willys $400k could be used elsewhere. I think I'd be just as comfortable with Nichols, Davis and Bennett. 

[Mr Dee]

20 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

nichols was on the verge of being pulled. and its the 2nd week in a row he played half a game or less. cant just cherry pick good stuff and ignore the bad when  we win and the bad and ignore the good when we lose.  Its not all qb. Win or lose.

I didn't get the memo about his being close to getting pulled, but I do realize he wasn't performing well. Yet, because it's a team game, we were still in it until his performance picked up, which it did. We're winning, with Nichols only playing average, so isn't that a good thing?

Will Nichols play lights out in the future? - I don't know.

Will the ST keep playing in a very solid manner? - I believe they will.

Will the defence keep getting us those turnovers? - Maybe not to the extent they have been, but yes, I believe they will.

Will Medlock keep his kicking up and above average? - There is little to believe that he won't keep it up.

Its football, and right now we're outperforming other teams...for a variety of different reasons. Yes, it's on every player to pick up when another lets down, and that's what the Bombers are doing.

Its bad enough when we pick on player's poor performances when we lose, but to dwell on them when we win? I don't see the point. We all understand how it works.