OK, it IS Willy ...

[TBURGESS]

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

I don't understand how you possibly think that's a poor argument.

It's not like there isn't precedent for this kind of decision. Did Buono cut bait with Lulay last year?

Did Lulay lose his job while he was healthy? Was Lulay sucking down a top 5 in the league salary? Nope.

 

2 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

cause you know, starting QB's never get hurt in the CFL. and Nichols has finished every season he's played healthy....

cause you know, you want one of the top paid players in the league to actually play and earn his huge salary and the money should be used to improve the team.

[Bigblue204]

Just now, TBURGESS said:

Did Lulay lose his job while he was healthy? Was Lulay sucking down a top 5 in the league salary? Nope.

 

cause you know, you want one of the top paid players in the league to actually play and earn his huge salary and the money should be used to improve the team.

I agree with that. But the possibility of losing a QB is just too great to discard one that has the experience/skill set Willy does. I know, he's playing like ****. But that doesn't mean he can't turn it around. Watching the team from the bench improve week to week could help with his confidence.

I'd really like to free up the $400,000 to improve other areas...but I don't like taking risks with the QB situation. Especially cause we're pretty much guaranteed to see an injury there some time during the season. Next year, obviously something will need to be done. But for the time being, we need experience behind centre.

[Mike]

11 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Did Lulay lose his job while he was healthy? Was Lulay sucking down a top 5 in the league salary? Nope.

... close to it

[17to85]

******* Winnipeg.... we've been absolutely raped in very recent history because we've had no depth at the quarterback position but now all of you are ready to take away that depth to save a few bucks. Never change Bomber fans, never change. Willy being here at a big salary has no impact on the roster right now and likely won't going forward so why would we willingly sacrifice that depth which chances are we're going to need again before the season is over? Not like Nichols has been clean throughout all these games, he's taken some shots and will take even more. 

[TBURGESS]

27 minutes ago, Mike said:

... close to it

So that would be a no then.

[Mr Dee]

Foolish talk about releasing Willy at this point. It took us forever to get a decent backup QB. And that's who's playing now. Whether you want to admit it or not, we need two capable, experienced QBs. Willy may have lost the starting role for now, but he's more than capable to step in at any time and do well, even as a 'backup'. 

The season is barely into the 2nd third of the year. Do you really think they're going to release "the salary" with all that's going on? They still very much need his presence.

Davis and Bennett are 3rd and 4th for a reason and I just don't see them being ready now, maybe not even in the near future.

The Lulay example fits the situation very well. The top 5 thing isn't worth the paper it isn't written on. 

If there is a problem SMS-wise, it will be handled without the release of Willy....and rightly so.

[Mike]

6 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

So that would be a no then.

I'm glad you think it's more important to save money than it is to have depth on your football team at every position.

... are you SURE you don't live in Winnipeg?

[Jpan85]

This whole Willy argument is baffling to me as why you would not want him here for the rest of the year. 

[TBURGESS]

It seems to me that a lot of Willy fans want to keep him around so he can go back in and prove the Nichols fans wrong, no matter the cost. 

FTR:

1. I don't think it's time to cut Willy yet. It's only been 2 games, but it's certainly time to put a plan in place.
2. Calling Willy a decent backup QB who we have to keep would be great if he was being paid less than half of what he's currently making. He was overpaid as a starter now he's way overpaid. 
3. $400+K for a depth player is a ridiculous waste of SMS.
4. I doubt the Bombers will cut Willy because that would highlight the fact that they made a huge mistake in giving him top QB contract before he became a top QB in the first place. I also suspect they still believe in him despite what's happened this year.
5. The SMS space could be used to increase our depth elsewhere or extend the contracts using this years money or bring in upgrades elsewhere.

[Mike]

4 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

It seems to me that a lot of Willy fans want to keep him around so he can go back in and prove the Nichols fans wrong, no matter the cost. 

FTR:

1. I don't think it's time to cut Willy yet. It's only been 2 games, but it's certainly time to put a plan in place.
2. Calling Willy a decent backup QB who we have to keep would be great if he was being paid less than half of what he's currently making. He was overpaid as a starter now he's way overpaid. 
3. $400+K for a depth player is a ridiculous waste of SMS.
4. I doubt the Bombers will cut Willy because that would highlight the fact that they made a huge mistake in giving him top QB contract before he became a top QB in the first place. I also suspect they still believe in him despite what's happened this year.
5. The SMS space could be used to increase our depth elsewhere or extend the contracts using this years money or bring in upgrades elsewhere.

#5 makes sense if we weren't in the thick of things THIS year.

[17to85]

5 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

It seems to me that a lot of Willy fans want to keep him around so he can go back in and prove the Nichols fans wrong, no matter the cost. 

No, this has nothing to do with any kind of attachment to a player, this is all about knowing how lack of qb depth has screwed this team over before. Seriously we've had "great youngsters" before who failed when thrown into the fire why take that risk? Things are close in the CFL this year why in gods name would we willingly remove the depth at a position just because of salary? That's a conversation for the offseason. In the mean time let's not fall into the trap of thinking we only need one quarterback. 

It's not your money why are you so concerned about saving a bit of it? 

[Bigblue204]

12 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

It seems to me that a lot of Willy fans want to keep him around so he can go back in and prove the Nichols fans wrong, no matter the cost. 

FTR:

1. I don't think it's time to cut Willy yet. It's only been 2 games, but it's certainly time to put a plan in place.
2. Calling Willy a decent backup QB who we have to keep would be great if he was being paid less than half of what he's currently making. He was overpaid as a starter now he's way overpaid. 
3. $400+K for a depth player is a ridiculous waste of SMS.
4. I doubt the Bombers will cut Willy because that would highlight the fact that they made a huge mistake in giving him top QB contract before he became a top QB in the first place. I also suspect they still believe in him despite what's happened this year.
5. The SMS space could be used to increase our depth elsewhere or extend the contracts using this years money or bring in upgrades elsewhere.

I know this might blow your mind a bit. But guess what. I'm a fan of Nichols AND Willy. I know, I know it's hard to fathom how a person can like two players on the team they cheer for. But let me tell you it's certainly possible.

I could honestly care less who leads this team, as long as that person is playing well enough for the team to win. I could careless about a superstar, or a high paid player playing up to there potential, or a career backup proving he's got what it takes to be a starter. I want one thing. WINS. end of story. So please stop with the "Willy fans want to prove Nichols fans" blah blah blah. I'm a blue bomber fan, if they're wearing the right colours I'm a fan.

I'll tell you what, if you can name 3 teams that haven't had to use a back up qb due to Injury and injury alone in the last 2 years. I'll change my mind. end of story. ready? GO......

Ok I already know you can't, Because every team has used a back up due to injury. Last year alone 8 out of 9 teams have. And yes Willy needed to be benched this year. It's not an impossibility that his time on the bench will actually help him. It's also no an impossibility that he's started his last game in the CFL. But how can anyone say we should go with inexperience at the most important position on the field at this point of the season? How can you honestly say we would be better off or even better with Davis/Bennett. You can't, we don't have enough of a sample size. Hell we could be better off, that's totally possible. But now is not that time to take a risk on that. Next year, sure. almost mid way through the season when you're fighting for a playoff spot is the absolute wrong time to start taking chances. 

[TBURGESS]

12 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

No, this has nothing to do with any kind of attachment to a player, this is all about knowing how lack of qb depth has screwed this team over before. Seriously we've had "great youngsters" before who failed when thrown into the fire why take that risk? Things are close in the CFL this year why in gods name would we willingly remove the depth at a position just because of salary? That's a conversation for the offseason. In the mean time let's not fall into the trap of thinking we only need one quarterback. 

It's not your money why are you so concerned about saving a bit of it? 

I don't think Willy is a great depth QB at the moment. I seriously doubt that time on the pine will result in him being able to turn it around if he's called upon. His contract makes him untradeable, which means other teams wouldn't want him at his current salary. You're happy to pay it because Davis might not be able to get the job done and Bennett might not be a good enough 3rd string QB.

Most don't agree with asking Willy to take a pay cut, which limits the options to cut him or keep him. Cut him allows you to use the money for other things. Keep him allows you to have a backup QB who is experienced in losing.

[Mr Dee]

Quote

It seems to me that a lot of Willy fans want to keep him around so he can go back in and prove the Nichols fans wrong, no matter the cost. 

You're argument is immediately flawed when you start it with this statement. There is no one versus the other. It is strictly about having 2 capable QBs.

Good gawd, you'd be the first one yammering about the depth at the QB position if Nichols went down and we had to rely on Davis and Bennett. 

Willy can still get it done...

[Brandon]

[TBURGESS]

18 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

You're argument is immediately flawed when you start it with this statement. There is no one versus the other. It is strictly about having 2 capable QBs.

Good gawd, you'd be the first one yammering about the depth at the QB position if Nichols went down and we had to rely on Davis and Bennett. 

Willy can still get it done...

That's where you lose me. Willy hasn't proven to be a capable QB except for 5 games back in 2014. For his level of play we could get Brandon Bridge or Dan LeFevour for less than half what we are paying Willy.

[17to85]

Just now, TBURGESS said:

That's where you lose me. Willy hasn't proven to be a capable QB except for 5 games back in 2014. For his level of play we could get Brandon Bridge or Dan LeFevour for less than half what we are paying Willy.

Who have done even less than Willy. Come on man, He was obviously gun shy about the pressure he was facing but it's not like Willy was seen as a poor backup when he was behind Durant, in fact he was seen as a pretty solid back up and has show good play as a starter, and some questionable play, but let's not pretend that all of a sudden he's a worthless player, especially considering all the issues this bomber team has had. 

[Mike]

I can't understand beyond emotion why anyone would suggest Drew Willy is a useless football player. Too much "what have you done for me lately" clouting logic right now.

[TBURGESS]

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Who have done even less than Willy. Come on man, He was obviously gun shy about the pressure he was facing but it's not like Willy was seen as a poor backup when he was behind Durant, in fact he was seen as a pretty solid back up and has show good play as a starter, and some questionable play, but let's not pretend that all of a sudden he's a worthless player, especially considering all the issues this bomber team has had. 

Come on man... Willy was 1-4 this year and was replaced by Nichols for good reasons, yet you want to go back to when he was Durant's backup to make your point. I'm not pretending that he's a worthless player. I'm saying outright that he's an overpaid backup with very limited successes.

Edited August 8, 2016 by TBURGESS
and t an

[Tracker]

3 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Who have done even less than Willy. Come on man, He was obviously gun shy about the pressure he was facing but it's not like Willy was seen as a poor backup when he was behind Durant, in fact he was seen as a pretty solid back up and has show good play as a starter, and some questionable play, but let's not pretend that all of a sudden he's a worthless player, especially considering all the issues this bomber team has had. 

Not many are saying Willy is worthless, at least not yet, but he is dramatically overpaid for a backup, and his on-field performance is not the only issue. The team sure as heck seems to have quit on him. Nichols played well, yes, but when he came in, suddenly the whole team was galvanized. With Willy behind center, the team played as if they expected to lose. We can complain all we like, but it really means nothing. If the team has lost confidence in Willy, he is done for.

[Adrenaline_x]

2 hours ago, 17to85 said:

You know what, I honestly think that there wasn't much difference between the actual offense in both Hamilton games, the reason one was a close game and one was a blow out to me comes down to a couple things. Firstly the defense was better in this second one. They got themselves off the field quicker and obviously didn't give up as many yards or points and the other factor is that the special teams won their battle by even more and the field position in that game was heavily tilted. Field position in the CFL is such a big thing and the Bombers had great field position all night this past week. 

For me personally, the biggest difference between the games was that in the second game we were stretching the field and placing the ball in the recievers hand and hitting them in stride.  There was a confidence with the team that it could do what it wanted and they did just that. The defence played well in both games but had alot les time to rest on the bench between playing.

The field position is another factor i admit, but in the second game we scored almost at will. We didn't do that in the first game as our long throws connected vs the first game where they didn't.

 

 

[Adrenaline_x]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

******* Winnipeg.... we've been absolutely raped in very recent history because we've had no depth at the quarterback position but now all of you are ready to take away that depth to save a few bucks. Never change Bomber fans, never change. Willy being here at a big salary has no impact on the roster right now and likely won't going forward so why would we willingly sacrifice that depth which chances are we're going to need again before the season is over? Not like Nichols has been clean throughout all these games, he's taken some shots and will take even more. 

Well i agree we need depth at the QB position and we may have been screwed if Nichols was not here. We would most likely still be using Willy vs Davis and Bennet.  

That being said, in his current State is Willy better then Brohm? I'm not so sure. I think Willy has it in him to me much better then Brohm or perhaps even nichols, but something is wrong and if he can't fix it, it don't believe he provides much depth. Experience yes,  thats worth something, but the inability to effectively move the ball wipes that out. 

 

I don't think we cut willy. Things being the same at the end of the year, i think we need to try and renegotiate willy's contract into a backup acceptable salary with bonuses for playing time/wins (like i preferred initially).   Things may be complete different then and willy could have regained form, nichols could suck or Bennet or Davis may have been given a chance and are running with it.  

For now, I have optimism for each upcoming game, which i haven't felt in a while. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

25 minutes ago, Brandon said:

We need video:

 

 

[Adrenaline_x]

53 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I don't think Willy is a great depth QB at the moment. I seriously doubt that time on the pine will result in him being able to turn it around if he's called upon. His contract makes him untradeable, which means other teams wouldn't want him at his current salary. You're happy to pay it because Davis might not be able to get the job done and Bennett might not be a good enough 3rd string QB.

Most don't agree with asking Willy to take a pay cut, which limits the options to cut him or keep him. Cut him allows you to use the money for other things. Keep him allows you to have a backup QB who is experienced in losing.

Right. And IF(big if) Nichols makes the most of this opportunity and becomes the starter we have been looking for, then him out playing willy is the sole reason he has taken the Job.  And this ist he way it should be.  Khari outplayed bell and replaced him and glenn replaced Khari when glenn was better. Its the only thing you can hope for and currently things are looking up for us.. That may change this week, but i'm happy we are winning and demolished the tiger cats last week. 

[Bigblue204]

3 minutes ago, Adrenaline_x said:

Well i agree we need depth at the QB position and we may have been screwed if Nichols was not here. We would most likely still be using Willy vs Davis and Bennet.  

That being said, in his current State is Willy better then Brohm? I'm not so sure. I think Willy has it in him to me much better then Brohm or perhaps even nichols, but something is wrong and if he can't fix it, it don't believe he provides much depth. Experience yes,  thats worth something, but the inability to effectively move the ball wipes that out. 

 

I don't think we cut willy. Things being the same at the end of the year, i think we need to try and renegotiate willy's contract into a backup acceptable salary with bonuses for playing time/wins (like i preferred initially).   Things may be complete different then and willy could have regained form, nichols could suck or Bennet or Davis may have been given a chance and are running with it.  

For now, I have optimism for each upcoming game, which i haven't felt in a while. 

I think most will agree that the biggest issue with Willy is confidence, whether that's his own confidence or the teams confidence in him. Either way, despite what's been suggested, that is something that can be turned around.