OK, it IS Willy ...

[Adrenaline_x]

23 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Who have done even less than Willy. Come on man, He was obviously gun shy about the pressure he was facing but it's not like Willy was seen as a poor backup when he was behind Durant, in fact he was seen as a pretty solid back up and has show good play as a starter, and some questionable play, but let's not pretend that all of a sudden he's a worthless player, especially considering all the issues this bomber team has had. 

 

19 minutes ago, Mike said:

I can't understand beyond emotion why anyone would suggest Drew Willy is a useless football player. Too much "what have you done for me lately" clouting logic right now.

Willy is not useless, as he has shown flashes that he can be good, but that is now over a season ago isn't it? Using that logic, printers would still be in the league as a few seasons ago he looked outstanding in BC.  :/

Don't cut willy unless we can't lower his price tag after the season is over. If at that time he is not the starter and hasn't been for a while then you have to reconsider all our options for backup QBs. 

Trying to cut willy in the middle of the season is pretty dumb. I think anyone suggesting that isn't thinking it through.  If nichols is out or sucks, then we go to willy.  If he continues to play like he did earlier in the season then you have cause to go to davis and bennet. 

But we all can not ignore that with Nichols, the team looks completely different and he is a large part of that turn around

 

[Arnold_Palmer]

With the poor Quarterback play we've had over the past two decades I thought we as fans would understand how important the QB position is and how having stability at the position is important to compete in this league. Nichols has been a nice surprise. I like Nichols. Can he stay healthy for 18 games? Can he keep up his play? The jury is still out. I also don't think Willy is done in this league, how ever he may not be that franchise quarterback we envisioned. I wouldn't make any decisions on Willy until the off season. Too many unknown's going forward, quite frankly it would be foolish to let Willy go at this point and time.

[17to85]

53 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Come on man... Willy was 1-4 this year and was replaced by Nichols for good reasons, yet you want to go back to when he was Durant's backup to make your point. I'm not pretending that he's a worthless player. I'm saying outright that he's an overpaid backup with very limited successes.

and yet you say we could bring in people with even more limited success to replace him, so your only argument is that he makes too much money.... which is just stupidity. There isn't a cap crunch on the team for the year so why in gods name do we cut the guy? This has gone beyond football decisions for you and it appears you are simply looking to make an example of a guy. how DARE he lose some games for this team. 

[Tracker]

38 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

I think most will agree that the biggest issue with Willy is confidence, whether that's his own confidence or the teams confidence in him. Either way, despite what's been suggested, that is something that can be turned around.

Its hard to distinguish between loss of confidence and outright fear. I presume that the Bombers would have sent him to chat with a sports psychologist, but that only works for about a third of people.

[TBURGESS]

The same folks who snort derisively and laugh at Taman for his SMS mistakes, have no problem with Walters using 400K+ of our SMS on a backup QB. SMH!

For the same money, I'd take Willy over the other 2, but the other 2 would be around 175K and Willy's over 400K and yes... That means a lot.

[Mike]

3 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

The same folks who snort derisively and laugh at Taman for his SMS mistakes, have no problem with Walters using 400K+ of our SMS on a backup QB. SMH!

For the same money, I'd take Willy over the other 2, but the other 2 would be around 175K and Willy's over 400K and yes... That means a lot.

Not this year it doesn't. Next year, yes. This year, no.

[Jpan85]

Yeah it would be crazy if they paid Willy 400k in the offseason to be the back up. It was a mid season change a way bigger difference.

[Adrenaline_x]

7 minutes ago, Mike said:

Not this year it doesn't. Next year, yes. This year, no.

How so? How does it not matter? We aren't at the mid mark of the season yet, which means we could effectively cut him and spend 200 000 on better imports(whether we can find them is another matter)? 

I don't want to cut willy regardless, but you aren't stating why.

 

[bearpants]

I think Willy's salary is completely a moot point... even if you can free up 200k, where are you going to spend that kind money?... unless an elite Canadian becomes available (Muamba)... but even still there are contingencies in place for free agents... IMO the discussion about cutting Willy or restructuring his contract starts in the off-season... and not a second sooner...

[Mike]

10 minutes ago, Adrenaline_x said:

How so? How does it not matter? We aren't at the mid mark of the season yet, which means we could effectively cut him and spend 200 000 on better imports(whether we can find them is another matter)? 

I don't want to cut willy regardless, but you aren't stating why.

 

Do you think we can find 200k (I'll dispute that number, by the way, because I doubt that's even close to what's left on his contract) in players that are going to improve our football team?

I'm imagining Willy would likely have about 150k owing to him by the halfway point of the season.

Then you gotta promote Bennett to the active roster, which means you're giving him 50k for the rest of the season, since CFL QB backups don't play for league minimum. So all of sudden, you're in the neighborhood of 100k left to spend. Even 120k if you're being generous.

That's gonna get you what? 1 really good player? Is there a hole on our team that could be solved by signing ONE player for the rest of the year that makes us a better team as opposed to keeping Drew?

[Bigblue204]

yeah I'm not sure what we would spend the money on. Getting some guys to sign on for another year or two? Hello Chungh? but again I'm assuming he wants to resign. Either way I'm not sure there'd be a use. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[Adrenaline_x]

4 minutes ago, Mike said:

Do you think we can find 200k (I'll dispute that number, by the way, because I doubt that's even close to what's left on his contract) in players that are going to improve our football team?

I'm imagining Willy would likely have about 150k owing to him by the halfway point of the season.

Then you gotta promote Bennett to the active roster, which means you're giving him 50k for the rest of the season, since CFL QB backups don't play for league minimum. So all of sudden, you're in the neighborhood of 100k left to spend. Even 120k if you're being generous.

That's gonna get you what? 1 really good player? Is there a hole on our team that could be solved by signing ONE player for the rest of the year that makes us a better team as opposed to keeping Drew?

Thanks.

I guess you can make the argument that you could spend the 120K on and import American olinemen to solidify that which makes the team as a whole better.   If you can get a game breaker olinemen for 120K you need to sign him don't you?

but i guess Willy could have a 6 game injury if it got to that point and take his salary off the SMS

 

 

[JuranBoldenRules]

22 minutes ago, Adrenaline_x said:

Thanks.

I guess you can make the argument that you could spend the 120K on and import American olinemen to solidify that which makes the team as a whole better.   If you can get a game breaker olinemen for 120K you need to sign him don't you?

but i guess Willy could have a 6 game injury if it got to that point and take his salary off the SMS

 

 

Who exactly are you thinking of as being around to sign mid-season?

[Adrenaline_x]

12 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Who exactly are you thinking of as being around to sign mid-season?

No one. I'm happy with willy still being on the team. I don't want him cut at all.

just wondering what the justification is for most people to cut him vs those that want to keep him

[TBURGESS]

The longer we wait, the more money Willy gets and the less SMS relief we get.

If you sign someone for 150K mid-season (Using Mikes numbers rather than debating what neither of us knows for sure), you're paying out 75K for half a season. You'd have to sign someone at 300K to use the whole 150K on half a seasons salary.

[Adrenaline_x]

Hmm.. I didn't think about that. you would be signing someone at 300k which equals less over the remainder or the year.

But I still think it would be prudent to IR willy vs cutting him incase  Nicholos gets hurt/sucks/whaterve.r

 

[White Out]

At this point, even I wouldn't suggest cutting Willy this year. Why? Unless you think Davis will out perform  or equal him. Then sure. But I don't know if Davis is there.

[Mike]

5 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

The longer we wait, the more money Willy gets and the less SMS relief we get.

If you sign someone for 150K mid-season (Using Mikes numbers rather than debating what neither of us knows for sure), you're paying out 75K for half a season. You'd have to sign someone at 300K to use the whole 150K on half a seasons salary.

and like I said, if you have 150k in space after cutting Willy, you STILL have to pay a third string quarterback, which means a third of that 150k is gone right away.

You're also forgetting the fact that there aren't just game cheques to be paid. You can sign someone to half a year's salary, but chances are anyone worth signing is still going to want a signing bonus for showing up.

You're getting ONE player for the cap relief we'd get from Drew Willy. I was never not factoring in the concept of paying a guy for half the year.

[sweep the leg]

Just to clarify, we've had two good games out of Nichols and the argument is that we should now hitch our wagon to him and back him up with a combined one start of experience, just to save approx. 3% of our cap space?

[sweep the leg]

Short of Heenan or Jones deciding to play in the CFL this season, I can't think of anybody who would be more important than having an experienced backup around.

[iso_55]

If Nicholls went down & we were in the playoffs would I want Drew Willy or Dominique Davis to start? Actually the way Willy has played it may not be the end of the world for Davis to play considering  just how poorly Willy has been for us. I just can't see that scenario as being as an apocalyptic moment as some might think. Let's put it this way, playing Drew Willy wouldn't be that huge of an advantage for the Bombers because of the way he has played. Or put another way, chances are in the playoffs we'd lose with Willy, so I'd rather have Davis playing getting the experience than the chronically underperforming veteran Willy. So no, I wouldn't favour keeping Drew Willy here anymore just as an injury insurance as there's no guarantee he'd play well even with another opportunity. With the salary cap as tight as it is, if we can free up a substantial amount of money to get rid of  Willy then it should be done.

[Mr Dee]

Quote

The longer we wait, the more money Willy gets and the less SMS relief we get.

So, the faster we make this mistake..the better?

[Adrenaline_x]

15 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

If Nicholls went down & we were in the playoffs would I want Drew Willy or Dominique Davis to start? Actually the way Willy has played it may not be the end of the world for Davis to play considering  just how poorly Willy has been for us. I just can't see that scenario as being as an apocalyptic moment as some might think. Let's put it this way, playing Drew Willy wouldn't be that huge of an advantage for the Bombers because of the way he has played. Or put another way, chances are in the playoffs we'd lose with Willy, so I'd rather have Davis playing getting the experience than the chronically underperforming veteran Willy. So no, I wouldn't favour keeping Drew Willy here anymore just as an injury insurance as there's no guarantee he'd play well even with another opportunity. With the salary cap as tight as it is, if we can free up a substantial amount of money to get rid of  Willy then it should be done.

Well he could possibly regain some of the flashes we saw before. But riding the pine might also make him worse.

 

best cause scenario we run willy for a quate in said playoff game and if he sucks you go to davis/bennet

[TBURGESS]

24 minutes ago, Mike said:

and like I said, if you have 150k in space after cutting Willy, you STILL have to pay a third string quarterback, which means a third of that 150k is gone right away.

You're also forgetting the fact that there aren't just game cheques to be paid. You can sign someone to half a year's salary, but chances are anyone worth signing is still going to want a signing bonus for showing up.

You're getting ONE player for the cap relief we'd get from Drew Willy. I was never not factoring in the concept of paying a guy for half the year.

On the radio the other day they were talking about a 22K game day cheque for Willy (I'm not vouching for the accuracy of this statement). That's 396K in game day checks leaving 15K for bonuses.

I'll assume a 10K TC bonus that we've already paid out and 5K in performance bonuses that won't be paid out cuz that's how I roll.

Willy's a vet. Gotta cut him by week 10 or pay the whole salary IIRC which leaves 10 game day cheques or $220,000 plus the 5K in bonuses he didn't earn for $225K. Take 50K off to promote our PR QB to 3rd string and we're down to 175K of SMS room to do whatever we need to with this year and more than 400K next year

[Adrenaline_x]

11 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

On the radio the other day they were talking about a 22K game day cheque for Willy (I'm not vouching for the accuracy of this statement). That's 396K in game day checks leaving 15K for bonuses.

I'll assume a 10K TC bonus that we've already paid out and 5K in performance bonuses that won't be paid out cuz that's how I roll.

Willy's a vet. Gotta cut him by week 10 or pay the whole salary IIRC which leaves 10 game day cheques or $220,000 plus the 5K in bonuses he didn't earn for $225K. Take 50K off to promote our PR QB to 3rd string and we're down to 175K of SMS room to do whatever we need to with this year and more than 400K next year

You and your logic.