OK, it IS Willy ...

[pigseye]

Nobody expects Nichols to be an MVP but he was 5 -2 as a starter in Edmonton on a good football team. He cab start for a good team and win, that's proven, can he win the playoffs? maybe, maybe not but you have to get there first before you find out and right now he's the best chance of getting them there.

[Arnold_Palmer]

34 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

nichols was on the verge of being pulled. and its the 2nd week in a row he played half a game or less. cant just cherry pick good stuff and ignore the bad when  we win and the bad and ignore the good when we lose.  Its not all qb. Win or lose.

This simply isn't true.

[wbbfan]

10 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

I didn't get the memo about his being close to getting pulled, but I do realize he wasn't performing well. Yet, because it's a team game, we were still in it until his performance picked up, which it did. We're winning, with Nichols only playing average, so isn't that a good thing?

Will Nichols play lights out in the future? - I don't know.

Will the ST keep playing in a very solid manner? - I believe they will.

Will the defence keep getting us those turnovers? - Maybe not to the extent they have been, but yes, I believe they will.

Will Medlock keep his kicking up and above average? - There is little to believe that he won't keep it up.

Its football, and right now we're outperforming other teams...for a variety of different reasons. Yes, it's on every player to pick up when another lets down, and that's what the Bombers are doing.

Its bad enough when we pick on player's poor performances when we lose, but to dwell on them when we win? I don't see the point. We all understand how it works.
 

 

When nichols threw that pick and up to then he was playing every bit as poor as willy at his worst. And that matches his play from the 2nd half of last weeks game. 

I think we will see similar play from nichols moving forward. He's not a guy that will win the game for you, but hes a guy you can win with if you have great play around him.

I really think we will see the same level of sts play going forward. Hopefully less penalties taking back tds though.

No chance we continue to force 5 turn overs a game or more. That would just be utterly crazy. We d have dbs finishing with picks/yards of a wr. Mo legget would have been our 2nd leading wr, by that token lol. Will we lead the league in turn overs? We could. Masoli was really bumbling with the ball, but in TO we put hats n hands on the ball and our dbs showed good hands. Continuing to be a big play defense is possible. 

medlock is doin what he does. This is why we paid him top flight wr money. Worth every penny.

Yeah we are. Gotta take the wins when you get em. What we are seeing a lot of right now is that our depth guys are way better then other teams depth guys. How our no1s play against other teams at 100% no one can tell till we see it. Would ray have missed those 3 early bombs to wrs with a stride or more? Would the top 3 wrs for to have caught them and some other passes? Have to see in maybe the rematch and going forward.

Not a fan of blind optimism. Or pessimism. Im a die hard realist. We should allways cheer for our team. But thats not at all bleeding blue and gold. Its a fan forum not a cheer squad. Idk what you expect? The commonly loathed actions of several fans from other teams (not so much the ones that post on here) is that of constantly hyping how good they are and their prospects are when they are doing terrible. That they view there pieces as superior to ours and to what they really are despite facts. Why encourage the type of fan in your own market that you loathe in other markets? Maybe you dont feel that way personally, but plenty of people do. And a forum is a place for open discussion of the team. If you want to see only people with the same type of view and opinion as your self thats kind of sad, but the ignore feature works. 

[Mr Dee]

Quote

Three plays off the top of my head where it nearly cost us dearly. 

This is hilarious really. 3 plays where it nearly cost us dearly? That probably happens in every friggin' game.

And I'll tell you, there are probably 3 plays every game that we can say it nearly could have won us the game.

[KptKrunch]

Wow wbbfan - really? On the verge of being pulled. Tell you what I saw - I saw Nichols throw an INT - I saw Toronto march it down then I saw the Wpg Defense (which I chose in fantasy football this week ) intercept him. Then I saw Nichols smartly march the ball downfield to get a field goal. After than, after every Argo turnover - I saw Nichols march it in the end zone. 

I've also seen this story before, with the bomber d getting turnovers, and I saw Drew Willy do absolutely NOTHING with the ball except a two and out (if you were lucky) or turn it right back over to them.

Even though he has been hurt a lot, when healthy, Willy has been given every opportunity to prove himself. More than enough. He has been given enough to hang himself with about 5 times already, and he unfortunately he has. 

Nichols being pulled - LMAO - WBBFAN - only way Nichols is going to be pulled from a game is if he carried out on a stretcher. It's not even a discussion, he's the Bomber #1 QB now. And it gets better I'm afraid (for all Willy fans) as next up after a bye is Montreal - bombers most likely win that game (would have won the home opener if Nichols started) then it's very conceivable the bombers sweep the mess that is the Sk Roughriders.

The question I have is will Willy even be on the team? If I were O'Shea, and if for whatever reason Nichols has to be 'pulled' from the game - I'm putting Davis in. No way no how I'm paying 400 grand to a 'backup' and at that salary Willy is untradeable. You can't give him away at that salary. He will be released if things stay the same. Willy is a terrible starting QB - he's a backup at best and should be paid as one. If he has any decency, he'll re-sign in Wpg at a backup rate - if not - he'll move on to the east (maybe Toronto or Montreal). I can't see him back in Sk either - Jones would have no interest in him.

Edited August 13, 2016 by KptKrunch

[do or die]

We nearly had 3 more picks on D.....

[wbbfan]

28 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

This simply isn't true.

Believe what you like, but willy had his helmet on. And if we hadnt gotten that pick right back i fully believe that would have been it for nichols. 

His stats to that point 5-11 44 yards 1 pic 1 time count 2 2 and outs.

His stats for that game to that point and the last half of last week 11-23 128 yards 1 pick 2 time counts, 5 2 and outs and 3 passes that should have been picked flat out dropped. 

His over all stats for the last half and first half 14-28 167 1td 1 pick 6 2 and outs 2 time counts. Thats worse then any game from willy. nichols doesnt have the leash willy did to start the year. you can believe that. 

[wbbfan]

4 minutes ago, KptKrunch said:

Wow wbbfan - really? On the verge of being pulled. Tell you what I saw - I saw Nichols throw an INT - I saw Toronto march it down then I saw the Wpg Defense (which I chose in fantasy football this week ) intercept him. Then I saw Nichols smartly march the ball downfield to get a field goal. After than, after every Argo turnover - I saw Nichols march it in the end zone. 

I've also seen this story before, with the bomber d getting turnovers, and I saw Drew Willy do absolutely NOTHING with the ball except a two and out (if you were lucky) or turn it right back over to them.

Even though he has been hurt a lot, when healthy, Willy has been given every opportunity to prove himself. More than enough. He has been given enough to hang himself with about 5 times already, and he unfortunately he has. 

Nichols being pulled - LMAO - WBBFAN - only way Nichols is going to be pulled from a game is if he carried out on a stretcher. It's not even a discussion, he's the Bomber #1 QB now. And it gets better I'm afraid (for all Willy fans) as next up after a bye is Montreal - bombers most likely win that game (would have won the home opener if Nichols started) then it's very conceivable the bombers sweep the mess that is the Sk Roughriders.

The question I have is will Willy even be on the team? If I were O'Shea, and if for whatever reason Nichols has to be 'pulled' from the game - I'm putting Davis in. No way no how I'm paying 400 grand to a 'backup' and at that salary Willy is untradeable. You can't give him away at that salary. He will be released if things stay the same. Willy is a terrible starting QB - he's a backup at best and should be paid as one. If he has any decency, he'll re-sign in Wpg at a backup rate - if not - he'll move on to the east (maybe Toronto or Montreal). I can't see him back in Sk either - Jones would have no interest in him.

His 4 quarters in that stretch were the worst we have seen from a qb this year. If all you saw was the pic you must have 20-200000000000000 vision lol.

[TBURGESS]

The best thing that Nichols did last night IMO was not letting the pick affect the way he was playing. It might be because the defense gave it right back, but Willy has a tendency to go into a funk after he makes a big mistake.

We're winning right now mostly due to turnovers (14 in the last 3 games). Nichols has made the other teams pay for their mistakes which we were unable to do a just few short weeks ago. I agree with ISO. He reminds me a bit of Tom Burgess in that he won't win the game for you by himself, but he won't lose it either.

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

The best thing that Nichols did last night IMO was not letting the pick affect the way he was playing. It might be because the defense gave it right back, but Willy has a tendency to go into a funk after he makes a big mistake.

We're winning right now mostly due to turnovers (14 in the last 3 games). Nichols has made the other teams pay for their mistakes which we were unable to do a just few short weeks ago. I agree with ISO. He reminds me a bit of Tom Burgess in that he won't win the game for you by himself, but he won't lose it either.

Thats the truth, he bounced back un phased. If any thing he played much better after that pick. Thats some thing willy has never shown. There a lot of things you can attribute that to but never know which one it is. Mental toughness? Confidence? Leader ship? What ever it is he has it, and willy doesnt. Its kind of like a buck pierce trait. Though I think nichols is a better passer then buck was. 

 

[kelownabomberfan]

Doesn't Willy always wear his helmet on the sidelines?  

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, Dirty30 said:

I agree but Davis is a much cheaper back up and dare I say reliable. Willys $400k could be used elsewhere. I think I'd be just as comfortable with Nichols, Davis and Bennett. 

I guess where I'm ultimately coming from is I still haven't thrown in the towel with Drew Willy.

[Dirty30]

24 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I guess where I'm ultimately coming from is I still haven't thrown in the towel with Drew Willy.

Don't get me wrong....it would be great if he could find his groove again. He's got the tools. Hopefully it's just a confidence thing and he can find it again. 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, White Out said:

This criticism didn't occur from you when Willy was our Qb. That's just a fact.

And if Willy had gone out and had the start that Nichols did last night the story would be entirely different for some people. There would be lots of "D won the game for him" like there was in that first Hamilton game. There is right now a double standard between the two quarterbacks. Some people see Willy as being unable to do anything bad and gloss over the good he does and some people gloss over the bad Nichols does. 

There was more than just a qb change for this team and it is unfair to put it all on the qbs. Nichols had a rough game last night that's undeniable, but they made enough plays on offense to overcome the bad and the D and special teams won the battle big time so it was a good win for the team. These are things that weren't happening with regularity early in the season and confidence was down across the board for all players and it showed in the results. Now some good things have happened and the teams confidence is sky high. This team for the past several years has been driven by momentum. When they have it things are great but when they don't have it they can't get it back and things snowball on them. 

[TBURGESS]

It certainly has been more than just the QB change, but WPG/HAM with Willy and 6 turnovers ended up 28-24. Nichols under the same circumstances ended up 37-11 because he took advantage of the turnovers. 

[KptKrunch]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

His 4 quarters in that stretch were the worst we have seen from a qb this year. If all you saw was the pic you must have 20-200000000000000 vision lol.  Believe what you like, but willy had his helmet on. And if we hadnt gotten that pick right back i fully believe that would have been it for nichols. 

 

Not sure what you mean about that '4 quarter' stretch. And I've seen Willy with his helmet on on the sidelines all the time. In Edmonton he never had it off. Not sure what you are talking about there either unless you think he was moments away from filling in for Nichols here in Edmonton. 

22 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

And if Willy had gone out and had the start that Nichols did last night the story would be entirely different for some people. There would be lots of "D won the game for him" like there was in that first Hamilton game. There is right now a double standard between the two quarterbacks. Some people see Willy as being unable to do anything bad and gloss over the good he does and some people gloss over the bad Nichols does. 

There was more than just a qb change for this team and it is unfair to put it all on the qbs. Nichols had a rough game last night that's undeniable, but they made enough plays on offense to overcome the bad and the D and special teams won the battle big time so it was a good win for the team. These are things that weren't happening with regularity early in the season and confidence was down across the board for all players and it showed in the results. Now some good things have happened and the teams confidence is sky high. This team for the past several years has been driven by momentum. When they have it things are great but when they don't have it they can't get it back and things snowball on them. 

 

But that's what a true 'starter' does. Everyone has bad games and bad stretches. You think John Elway was lights out the whole game in that classic AFC Final against the Browns? There was a reason why he had to make 'the drive' at the end of the game to win it. I haven't seen Willy do that - at least not since his first year in Wpg. He's been getting progressively worse the longer he's been there. This year Willy has nice numbers but about 70% of them have come after the game was well out of reach. If you look at Willy's last start prior to the switch to Nichols (against Calgary) the Wpg D and special teams were keeping the bombers so the Calgary defense stayed tough and Willy couldn't do anything. I was actually hoping Willy was going to do well. He seems like a good kid. But right now it doesn't look like he's cut out to be a starter.

IMO - the dumbest thing the bombers ever did was sign him and immediately proclaim him as their starter. The Eskimos signed Reilly to give competition to Nichols (and vice versa) when they traded Ray. They did not want to annoit either as 'the' starter and Nichols was looking like he was going to win the job (though the media had given it to Reilly prior to camp opening) but he blew his knee in the home preseason game and the rest is/was history. 

The bombers should never have tied their wagon to guy with what - four starts (did he even have that much)? Things might of even turned out different (in a good way) for Willy if he was forced to compete. The good news is he is now. He's no longer the #1 guy in Wpg that's pretty obvious. The bad news - no CFL team can afford a 400k a year backup QB. For this year he may stay on but he'll be released at season's end if things remain the same (Nichols stays healthy and stays as a starter). Willy's only hope is if Nichols either gets hurt or becomes extremely innaffective (Willy like) and Willy steps in and plays like he did in his first three games as the bomber starter. I still think he ends up in Montreal. 

[White Out]

28 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

And if Willy had gone out and had the start that Nichols did last night the story would be entirely different for some people. There would be lots of "D won the game for him" like there was in that first Hamilton game. There is right now a double standard between the two quarterbacks. Some people see Willy as being unable to do anything bad and gloss over the good he does and some people gloss over the bad Nichols does. 

There was more than just a qb change for this team and it is unfair to put it all on the qbs. Nichols had a rough game last night that's undeniable, but they made enough plays on offense to overcome the bad and the D and special teams won the battle big time so it was a good win for the team. These are things that weren't happening with regularity early in the season and confidence was down across the board for all players and it showed in the results. Now some good things have happened and the teams confidence is sky high. This team for the past several years has been driven by momentum. When they have it things are great but when they don't have it they can't get it back and things snowball on them. 

See, this is where you're incorrect. Go back to the first Hamilton win. WBB fan makes ZERO mention of Willy or the D winning it for us. Not a one. We don't have to try and imagine scenarios here, or, really, do much guess work. It's all there in plain view.

Nichols has a rough start to the game but he recovered and made some really nice passes and threw some great touchdown passes last night. Not his best game but we won.

[wbbfan]

23 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

It certainly has been more than just the QB change, but WPG/HAM with Willy and 6 turnovers ended up 28-24. Nichols under the same circumstances ended up 37-11 because he took advantage of the turnovers. 

with an OL that gave up 0 sacks and 3 or less hurries.  And denmark busting almost 200 yards. We cant know for sure how nichols would have done in that game or willy in this one. But the difference between them is not kerwin bell / khari jones. Or ricky ray / jason maas even. Willy has the potential to be the guy that wins the game. Nichols doesnt. (consistently) Willy may be too damaged to make it work here now though. Cant tell with out seeing willy in again, and if we do that and it fails we are in a horrible spot. 

[Tracker]

If Nichols goes down and the fate of the season falls onto Willy, I have little confidence that he will be any better than his .250 previous record, which will be disastrous. I hope to heck that the coaching staff is grooming the heck out of Davis and Bennett. They might be the future- Willy has proven he is not.

[WBBFanWest]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Doesn't Willy always wear his helmet on the sidelines?  

Every time I see him he he has it on.  I guess that means the Nichols is always on the verge of coming out of the game.  Darned good thing the Bombers keep winning, even with a QB that almost costs us dearly, except when he doesn't, which is most of the time.  But then again, what do I know.  I don't spend a lot of time watching his feet.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, White Out said:

See, this is where you're incorrect. Go back to the first Hamilton win. WBB fan makes ZERO mention of Willy or the D winning it for us. Not a one. We don't have to try and imagine scenarios here, or, really, do much guess work. It's all there in plain view.

Nichols has a rough start to the game but he recovered and made some really nice passes and threw some great touchdown passes last night. Not his best game but we won.

Probably because there were already enough people shitting all over Willy.

[17to85]

2 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

It certainly has been more than just the QB change, but WPG/HAM with Willy and 6 turnovers ended up 28-24. Nichols under the same circumstances ended up 37-11 because he took advantage of the turnovers. 

OK but the D is a lot better since then. Not in terms of turnovers but in terms of giving up less yards and getting themselves off the field faster. We can't overlook that. The coverage has tightened up a lot from the start of the year and the line is taking control more often too.

[Bubba Zanetti]

I swear, Nichols could go 39/40 for 450 Yards and 5 TD's and there would still be the usual 2 or 3 posters here that would say "he was ok but he did miss that 1 pass and the defence made it easy for him". Did he have his best game last night? Nope but we still won by a mile and his 2 TD passes to Denmark were more decisive and accurate than anything ive seen from Willy all year. The guy doesnt panic, exudes confidence, plays fast, goes through his reads, has the players believing in him, throws a nice deep ball, and most importantly does what it takes to WIN football games. Ive seen NONE of the above from Willy this year yet the usual suspects will pick pepper out of fly s**t when it comes to Nichols.

[do or die]

Right NOW....the TEAM is playing well, period.  

This revisionist obsessing with who might of done what, whenever in place of another is getting pretty old, and is a utter waste of time.

Willy for whatever reasons.....not adjusting to new O, beat down, lost confidence, or bad grooming....was not getting it done - so he simply had to sit.

Nichols is not putting on a passing circus with big numbers....but is limiting turnovers and finding ways to put some more points on the board.  So we just run with him....

If/when Willy gets back in there.....we will see.   His deal would be to prove he still has it.   Think the Bombers will deal with that situation, at the end of the year.    We have already seen the value of having a veteran backup....instead of tossing some young guy to the wolves.

 

 

[Mark F]

4 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

The best thing that Nichols did last night IMO was not letting the pick affect the way he was playing. It might be because the defense gave it right back, but Willy has a tendency to go into a funk after he makes a big mistake.

We're winning right now mostly due to turnovers (14 in the last 3 games). Nichols has made the other teams pay for their mistakes which we were unable to do a just few short weeks ago. I agree with ISO. He reminds me a bit of Tom Burgess in that he won't win the game for you by himself, but he won't lose it either.

agree, these would have been field goals, first few games. 

Willy had the stats, Nichols has the wins.

 

I imagine Nichols, with the injuries he's had... knows quite well what Drew is going through.

Nichols deserves a lot of credit for fighting back from that. Drew should watch and learn.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Mark F