Our QB of the Future

[Rich]

17 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

No, i didnt. young qbs starting isnt a bad thing at all. We have a ton of young qbs now where as a few years ago when half the teams in the league lacked good qbs we had tons of old qbs. 

I've already showed you most of the starters in the league spent a couple of years as backups in the CFL.  This is really the main point that I'm arguing with you. 

18 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Your still missing the point. Thats those guys were close to two years younger and further ahead. Thats massive. 

I think you are missing the point.  For the guys I showed you, all their ages are about the same for their first year in the CFL and the stats I showed.  That is why I included their ages.  

 

As for the rest of it, I've already said I don't think Davis isn't going to amount to much.  Just don't agree with your argument that a QB doesn't need time to develop.  You know, this quote here:

3 hours ago, wbbfan said:

Thats not really true. It takes the right coaching staff and pieces. But mostly the right qb. Ricky ray and jason maas didnt have that. Khari jones didnt have that. The current crop of good young qbs in the cfl have been thrown to the wolfs and become king of the jungle. 

The majority of the QBs in the CFL have had time to develop and learn the game.  You can argue that they didn't need the time that they were just "stuck" behind  a good QB, but that is just getting into a chicken and egg argument.

I anxiously await your reply to twist my words and tell me how I am wrong again.

[iso_55]

30 minutes ago, Nash00 said:

Not to nitpick but didn't Davis start the last game of the Year for us vs Toronto last season? 

He played the whole game or at least the majority.

[Dr. Blue]

It looks like the guys who have studied behind Ray have done pretty well. I believe playing behind and learning from Ray on the field and in the film room has helped these guys a lot. 

I'd be after Ray to be on my coaching staff as soon as he retires.

[wbbfan]

23 minutes ago, Dr. Blue said:

It looks like the guys who have studied behind Ray have done pretty well. I believe playing behind and learning from Ray on the field and in the film room has helped these guys a lot. 

I'd be after Ray to be on my coaching staff as soon as he retires.

Can never really tell if a vet qb like ray takes any part of stuff like this from the fans position. One wonder when you see edm, bc, calgary in the past with qb puppy mills. But there are several qbs in various levels that refuse to train underlings or do much of any thing with them. Famously rich gannon with the raiders refused to do any thing with the stringers below him even being coached by their HC directly and not the oc/qb coach. Similar with brett favre. *The biggest cfl version that was some what public was AC. 

 A star qb is allways worth a look as a qb coach imop especially if you run a system similar to what they did at their best.

Edited August 3, 2016 by wbbfan

[Doublezero]

3 hours ago, Nash00 said:

Not to nitpick but didn't Davis start the last game of the Year for us vs Toronto last season? 

Yes he did http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/11/06/qb-dominique-davis-performs-well-in-first-cfl-start-but-bombers-lose-season-finale-to-argos

 

[Dr. Blue]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

Can never really tell if a vet qb like ray takes any part of stuff like this from the fans position. One wonder when you see edm, bc, calgary in the past with qb puppy mills. But there are several qbs in various levels that refuse to train underlings or do much of any thing with them. Famously rich gannon with the raiders refused to do any thing with the stringers below him even being coached by their HC directly and not the oc/qb coach. Similar with brett favre. *The biggest cfl version that was some what public was AC. 

 A star qb is allways worth a look as a qb coach imop especially if you run a system similar to what they did at their best.

I never said that I thought all great players were great mentors. No I can't say for certain that Ray is a great mentor, but given the success of those who have played behind him I do believe he is a big part of it. 

I agree with your assessment that AC was not great with those who have played behind him. He had incredible success for years, and plenty of time to develop someone behind him, but is there one QB who played behind him that had any success in the CFL? You'd figure that Popp, who many believe is one of the best CFL GMs (not me personally), should have been able to find a QB who is just ready to step in.

Guys like Maas, Collaros and Harris have all had success in the CFL and have a common denominator of playing behind Ray. At the same time I don't believe that everyone who plays behind him will be a great QB. I just think he has a possitive influence on their success. I am interested to see what comes of guys like Gale and Kilgore as teams get more film on them.

[Doublezero]

Dual-threat QBs are exciting to watch and best suited for the CFL. Experienced coaching helps: and a few ex QBs at coach or GM - Huffer, Dickenson, Austin, Milanovich, Maas

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Dr. Blue said:

I never said that I thought all great players were great mentors. No I can't say for certain that Ray is a great mentor, but given the success of those who have played behind him I do believe he is a big part of it. 

I agree with your assessment that AC was not great with those who have played behind him. He had incredible success for years, and plenty of time to develop someone behind him, but is there one QB who played behind him that had any success in the CFL? You'd figure that Popp, who many believe is one of the best CFL GMs (not me personally), should have been able to find a QB who is just ready to step in.

Guys like Maas, Collaros and Harris have all had success in the CFL and have a common denominator of playing behind Ray. At the same time I don't believe that everyone who plays behind him will be a great QB. I just think he has a possitive influence on their success. I am interested to see what comes of guys like Gale and Kilgore as teams get more film on them.

Cant say how RR is with the young qbs. More then likely thats some thing we will hear about one way or another after his career.

Ac was notoriously cold toward young qbs behind him, danny mac to a lesser extent too. I cant blame a guy like ac who struggled and stayed in the league by the skin of his teeth for several years for not wanting to train his successor. Especially in a situation like his in mtl. 

Certainly dont think you can give any credit for maas to RR. They fought for a job for a long time. 

Allways interesting to see new qbs who show potential. Mtl has a couple guys waiting in the wings I think could be good after glenn is gone. 

Keith price in bc too. Wally knows how to scout qbs. You dont see him dig through other teams QB pile too often. And price was a machine in college. 

[Jpan85]

Keith Price started with the Riders. 

[iso_55]

10 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Cant say how RR is with the young qbs. More then likely thats some thing we will hear about one way or another after his career.

Ac was notoriously cold toward young qbs behind him, danny mac to a lesser extent too. I cant blame a guy like ac who struggled and stayed in the league by the skin of his teeth for several years for not wanting to train his successor. Especially in a situation like his in mtl. 

Certainly dont think you can give any credit for maas to RR. They fought for a job for a long time. 

Allways interesting to see new qbs who show potential. Mtl has a couple guys waiting in the wings I think could be good after glenn is gone. 

Keith price in bc too. Wally knows how to scout qbs. You dont see him dig through other teams QB pile too often. And price was a machine in college. 

Where did you hear or read that AC didn't help qbs behind him? Or Danny Mac?

[Dr. Blue]

I'm not giving Ray all the credit for Maas' success. I just think he benefited from having played with Ray. They actually probably both benefited from playing together.

[wbbfan]

15 minutes ago, Jpan85 said:

Keith Price started with the Riders. 

yep. thats part of why its interesting. Like i said you dont see him dig through other teams qbs very often. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by wbbfan

[JuranBoldenRules]

Milanovich/Brady probably more to do with it than Ray.

[Mike]

7 hours ago, Doublezero said:

Dual-threat QBs are exciting to watch and best suited for the CFL. Experienced coaching helps: and a few ex QBs at coach or GM - Huffer, Dickenson, Austin, Milanovich, Maas

This is an opinion you've long held, but I don't think it's entirely accurate.

Who are the successful dual-threat quarterbacks in this league right now? One QB rushed for over 400 yards last year and he has no job right now.

[DanoT]

7 minutes ago, Mike said:

This is an opinion you've long held, but I don't think it's entirely accurate.

Who are the successful dual-threat quarterbacks in this league right now? One QB rushed for over 400 yards last year and he has no job right now.

Mike Reilly, Jon Jennings, Darian Durant, Travis Lulay (he can run but will his shoulder hold up if he takes a hard hit?), and possibly Masoli.

Edited August 3, 2016 by DanoT

[Jaxon]

Most backup QB's get their shot, some take advantage, some don't.    Sometimes it's just plain luck, good or bad.    I've rarely seen a QB in this league go all 18 games.   Usually, they get an injury somewhere down the line that allows the #2 guy to get some playing time.   It's those situations where a #2 guy can get his chance to show what he can do.   

It is not illogical to think that Davis will get his shot either this year or next.   Willy carries a big salary and has not won many games.  The thought of him being traded or released is certainly within the realm of possibility.  That makes Nichols the starter and Davis the #2.   The odds are, in that scenario, that Davis would get a couple of starts before next year is done.  

I don't wish ill on anyone, but I would like to see more from Davis.  I thought he played well in the preseason, albeit not with or against starters. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by Jaxon

[Logan007]

10 hours ago, Dr. Blue said:

It looks like the guys who have studied behind Ray have done pretty well. I believe playing behind and learning from Ray on the field and in the film room has helped these guys a lot. 

I'd be after Ray to be on my coaching staff as soon as he retires.

^ THIS!  I would take him as our QB coach in an instant.

[Mike]

10 minutes ago, DanoT said:

Mike Reilly, Jon Jennings, Darian Durant, Travis Lulay (he can run but will his shoulder hold up if he takes a hard hit?), and possibly Masoli.

I consider those guys to be mobile, not "dual-threat"

Are any of them a threat to run it in from further than the red zone?

[Noeller]

Lol @ how much "Dual Threat" has changed since the days of Tracy Ham.... 

[17to85]

2 hours ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Milanovich/Brady probably more to do with it than Ray.

This is I think the real key here. Milanovich has seen good performances from his quarterbacks his whole coaching career. I suspect that he is as good an offensive coach as the reputation suggests. Maas arguably helped Ray more than Ray helped Maas cause Maas was playing in Edmonton before Ray showed up and when Ray did have some downs in Edmonton they threw Maas in to settle things down. 

[ddanger]

15 hours ago, tracker said:

If the #3 and #4 quarterbacks have shown little in practices, then yes, they do have to be replaced.  Pretty much every QB starting in the CFL had to work his way up. Some were fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time to advance rapidly, but those are few.

It's a combination of both......developing and learning the game as a #3 or #4, and then getting a chance. Luck ( injuries ahead on the depth chart ) definitely plays a role. Regardless of the sport actually. Every time I watch Davis in warm-ups I wonder why he doesn't get a chance. Give him a razzle-dazzle play on short yardage to boost his confidence.

[Doublezero]

43 minutes ago, Mike said:

This is an opinion you've long held, but I don't think it's entirely accurate.

Who are the successful dual-threat quarterbacks in this league right now? One QB rushed for over 400 yards last year and he has no job right now.

I'm thinking of players in the tradition of Flutie, Ham, Moon - guy doesn't have to be a bruiser but D has to respect the threat that the QB might run and actually win a successful foot race for a first down. So to me dual threat equals mobility and escapability - but not that the QB is always going to run first. If the O can scheme around a QBs athleticism, so much the better. Who is a dual threat right now? Collaros (assuming he comes back OK) Reilly, Lulay, Jennings, Cato. Burris and Durant could and would run successfully earlier in their careers - and defences learned to expect and respect that threat. You've got guys like Lynch, Franklin, Davis and Bennett who are athletic. Those are the kinds of QBs that Defences have to think might run.

[rebusrankin]

Who is the current QB for Eastern Washington? That's our QB of the future.

[Slingin Sammy]

I think learning from established starters is an important component; but our recent history with Goltz, Boltus, Elliot, Brohm etc is that they either didn't have the physical/mental abilities to play as a starter in this league or were really lacking in their mechanics/fundamentals...we just haven't recruited guys that if given the opportunity to learn, would be able to start in this league because of their deficiencies...

[17to85]

8 minutes ago, Slingin Sammy said:

I think learning from established starters is an important component; but our recent history with Goltz, Boltus, Elliot, Brohm etc is that they either didn't have the physical/mental abilities to play as a starter in this league or were really lacking in their mechanics/fundamentals...we just haven't recruited guys that if given the opportunity to learn, would be able to start in this league because of their deficiencies...

Or do we throw young qbs into a situation with bad teams and expect them to work miracles and throw them on the scrap heap when they don't? Cause we haven't exactly had great teams here lately.