Bombers vs Argos Aug 12 Depth Charts ETC

[Atomic]

6 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

what your saying is that every team uses the 2man for ol alone. And thats just not the case. Even in that case we would be sub norm in big bodies especially ol. Those spots go to guys who are questionable after the depth chart is posted much of the time.  Your also saying no what we are doing is the norm, but once keeping is healthy we wont be doing it. If what we are doing is the norm why would we change that?

"Every team must use the 2man for OL alone".  

No.  Only one team has 8 on their roster, as you said.  The rest have 7, or in our case 6.  So the inactive holds one or zero OL.

"Those spots go to guys who are questionable."  

Sometimes, but not always, nor even the majority of the time.  For example Travis Bond was healthy and inactive for the first five weeks.

"Your also saying no what we are doing is the norm, but once keeping is healthy we wont be doing it. If what we are doing is the norm why would we change that?"

You're talking about two different things.  Dressing six is the norm.  Having six on the roster is not the norm.  When Keeping is healthy, we will have seven on the roster, and continue to dress six.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Atomic

[17to85]

by the time you lose enough bodies on the offensive and defensive line that you run out of bodies the game will be nearly over anyway so it's not worth it, which is why no one dresses that many people. And if you've having that many injuries you're probably not winning the game anyway so you just play out the string however you can and bring in bodies during the week before the next game. 

Some people here I swear really try and over think things. 

[mbrg]

19 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

weve done it since then. Its not the league norm by any means to carry 1 back up ol. 

I have no idea where you get this from.

Maybe it's not something you pay attention to, but about 10 minutes prior to kickoff George Huffinpuff (not sure what his real name is) announces to the stadium the scratches for both teams.  That is when 7 becomes 6.

 

19 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

 Going into the week we had given up the most sacks, 5th in the league in rushing (with a couple teams that hardly if ever run) 7th in rushing tds. with the lowest YPC in the league. 

And?  Not sure that any of this means we would be wise to put 7 Olinemen on the field at the same time for the entire game.  Are we granted bonus yards for having an extra Olineman on the sidelines?

Might as well argue that the Bombers' problems earlier this year stemmed from not having 5 QBs on the game day roster.

[wbbfan]

8 minutes ago, mbrg said:

Nope.

I am disagreeing with the amount of importance you are placing on it.

And provided the real world illustration of how rarely (a) the Bombers have dressed 2 backup Olinemen for a game, and (b) how seldom this has come back to bite them in the rump.

The Bombers are not in the minority in doing this either, they are in the majority.

 

As for Couture specifically, he has shown that he is not ready to see regular snaps in the CFL yet.  He's shown some good and some bad.  Is it something worth using a DI spot for?  For that reason, I'd still lean towards no.  However, combined with a different reason - we're already using 3 imports on the Oline, so is that enough to get a proper ROI using a DI there?  Now the needle moves to maybe.  BUT, we still can't use that DI if Chungh or Goossen get injured without making ratio adjustments elsewhere, so I'm back to leaning towards no.

Really? how many other teams have put a DT on the ol this year?

You provided an opinion which your entitled to, but I provided stats. Do you have any facts to your point?

Least in the league with 2 other teams. 1 has a massive amount of injuries the other has 1 win. the best team in the league, has the most. No thats not in the majority. Especially not the majority of teams sitting in play off spots.

Couture hasnt looked great or bad. Id agree hes had some flashes not nothing stellar. He hasnt looked terrible. But his glimpses have been far to few and far between. Do i want him to start? ideally no. Him or neufeld? id take him. Him keeping or goossen would be tough tbh. 

The change would be corney to the majority of reps at DE. Thats not a bad thing at all honestly. he needs snaps to develop. 

There is also a lot of assumption here that an extra ol has no value if no one gets hurt, and that isnt the case. 

The massive amount of lbs we have hurting the depth we carry else where isnt just OL. DT, wr, and rb are thin aswell. We are banged up at wr, but we are one injury at ni wr from having a guy whose caught 3 passes in 18 games from starting. And have been close to putting dbs or fbs out at wr this year.

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, Atomic said:

"Every team must use the 2man for OL alone".  

No.  Only one team has 8 on their roster, as you said.  The rest have 7, or in our case 6.  So the inactive holds one or zero OL.

"Those spots go to guys who are questionable."  

Sometimes, but not always, nor even the majority of the time.  For example Travis Bond was healthy and inactive for the first five weeks.

"Your also saying no what we are doing is the norm, but once keeping is healthy we wont be doing it. If what we are doing is the norm why would we change that?"

You're talking about two different things.  Dressing six is the norm.  Having six on the roster is not the norm.  When Keeping is healthy, we will have seven on the roster, and continue to dress six.

bond was banged up out of tc. but cant say when he got healthy. After a couple weeks into the year thats atleast 1 spot for most of the season. After bond we had mcduffie in the same spot. 

6 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

by the time you lose enough bodies on the offensive and defensive line that you run out of bodies the game will be nearly over anyway so it's not worth it, which is why no one dresses that many people. And if you've having that many injuries you're probably not winning the game anyway so you just play out the string however you can and bring in bodies during the week before the next game. 

Some people here I swear really try and over think things. 

weve had a dt take snaps on the ol this year. We were lucky a couple times OL have gone down and missed only a series. we are 1 injury thats more then minor away from having no back up ol. 

6 minutes ago, mbrg said:

I have no idea where you get this from.

Maybe it's not something you pay attention to, but about 10 minutes prior to kickoff George Huffinpuff (not sure what his real name is) announces to the stadium the scratches for both teams.  That is when 7 becomes 6.

 

And?  Not sure that any of this means we would be wise to put 7 Olinemen on the field at the same time for the entire game.  Are we granted bonus yards for having an extra Olineman on the sidelines?

Might as well argue that the Bombers' problems earlier this year stemmed from not having 5 QBs on the game day roster.

every team is not scratching 2 ol every game though.

 

Point is, we are under achieving in the trenches as is. On top of that we have the least depth. In terms of quality and quantity except for maybe the riders. Dis arent on the field the whole time they play situational and on teams. where we have had lbers at TE spot on goal line / short yardage package we would have an ol. Same with blocking on kicks and punts. Have you seen mcduffie on the field the entire game?

[Atomic]

7 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

every team is not scratching 2 ol every game though.

For the third time: no one said they were.  Only one team has 8 OL on the roster.  The rest have 6 or 7, meaning one or zero OL scratched.

Please read posts before responding or this debate will go nowhere.

[rebusrankin]

I'd like to see wbbfan show some evidence of other teams using 7 OL on their 44? Is this like his incorrect argument about Flanders being a returner?

[wbbfan]

Some perspective, other lbs weve dressed this year.

Briggs 8 games 1 tackle. 0 st tackles. 18 games the last 2 years on teams, 11 tackles on sts each year. 4 and 2 tackles on d. 

tony burnett 8 games 1 defensive tackle 5 teams tackles. 

shane gauthier 2 games 0 defensive tackles 1 st tackle.

hurl 5 games 0 defensive tackles 3 sts tackles. 

kyle knox 2 games 0 defensive tackles 2 st tackles. 

knox and burnett have been DIs obviously hurl and gauthier ni. None of these guys are getting Lber reps unless some one goes down. And thats for 2 spots. Mo is backed up by waggoner and a DB would go into that spot not one of these guys. 

The rotating ends weve had with greene and formerly hubbard have spent time at DI as well. To great, game changing production as well.

[mbrg]

2 minutes ago, Atomic said:

For the third time: no one said they were.  Only one team has 8 OL on the roster.  The rest have 6 or 7, meaning one or zero OL scratched.

Please read posts before responding or this debate will go nowhere.

It's all yours....enjoy!

[wbbfan]

4 minutes ago, Atomic said:

For the third time: no one said they were.  Only one team has 8 OL on the roster.  The rest have 6 or 7, meaning one or zero OL scratched.

Please read posts before responding or this debate will go nowhere.

The point your missing is that several teams have a ton of guys on the IR. 

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Some perspective, other lbs weve dressed this year.

Briggs 8 games 1 tackle. 0 st tackles. 18 games the last 2 years on teams, 11 tackles on sts each year. 4 and 2 tackles on d. 

tony burnett 8 games 1 defensive tackle 5 teams tackles. 

shane gauthier 2 games 0 defensive tackles 1 st tackle.

hurl 5 games 0 defensive tackles 3 sts tackles. 

kyle knox 2 games 0 defensive tackles 2 st tackles. 

knox and burnett have been DIs obviously hurl and gauthier ni. None of these guys are getting Lber reps unless some one goes down. And thats for 2 spots. Mo is backed up by waggoner and a DB would go into that spot not one of these guys. 

The rotating ends weve had with greene and formerly hubbard have spent time at DI as well. To great, game changing production as well.

And what stats will a backup OL record?  None, of course.  Because the impact of an OL isn't measured in stats.  Same as the impact of a special teams player.  Not necessarily there only to provide tackles.

[Nash00]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Some perspective, other lbs weve dressed this year.

Briggs 8 games 1 tackle. 0 st tackles. 18 games the last 2 years on teams, 11 tackles on sts each year. 4 and 2 tackles on d. 

tony burnett 8 games 1 defensive tackle 5 teams tackles. 

shane gauthier 2 games 0 defensive tackles 1 st tackle.

hurl 5 games 0 defensive tackles 3 sts tackles. 

kyle knox 2 games 0 defensive tackles 2 st tackles. 

knox and burnett have been DIs obviously hurl and gauthier ni. None of these guys are getting Lber reps unless some one goes down. And thats for 2 spots. Mo is backed up by waggoner and a DB would go into that spot not one of these guys. 

The rotating ends weve had with greene and formerly hubbard have spent time at DI as well. To great, game changing production as well.

Hard to quantify the value of rotating ends when part of the equation is keeping guys like Westerman and Cole fresh. That impact won't show up directly on the stat line but it's something to consider. Also, Green has been playing better in the last 2 weeks so his value to the roster has gone up.

[Atomic]

Just now, wbbfan said:

The point your missing is that several teams have a ton of guys on the IR. 

Not sure what that has to do with anything.  We're talking about dressing six vs. seven OL, not how many OL can be crammed on the IR.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Atomic said:

Not sure what that has to do with anything.  We're talking about dressing six vs. seven OL, not how many OL can be crammed on the IR.

They would be carrying more linemen if they had more healthy. Mtl has less banged up ol then us. Every one has the same or more. Some teams 4-6 ol. 

 

4 minutes ago, Nash00 said:

Hard to quantify the value of rotating ends when part of the equation is keeping guys like Westerman and Cole fresh. That impact won't show up directly on the stat line but it's something to consider. Also, Green has been playing better in the last 2 weeks so his value to the roster has gone up.

I didnt mean rotating with westerman. I mean they were rotating and backing each other up while we tried to flesh out a starter. Coles only been here for 3 games iirc 1 start. Maybe 2. Im all for rotating DEs, and corney in general gives us a great deal of ability to do that with out hurting the ratio. 

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

They would be carrying more linemen if they had more healthy. Mtl has less banged up ol then us. Every one has the same or more. Some teams 4-6 ol. 

That's speculation not backed up by facts or any recent history.  No one carries more than 8 on the roster, no one dresses more than 6.  In fact you may find that several OL are on the injured lists but are not injured at all... they're only there because it doesn't make sense to carry them on the roster.

[wbbfan]

Just now, Atomic said:

That's speculation not backed up by facts or any recent history.  No one carries more than 8 on the roster, no one dresses more than 6.  In fact you may find that several OL are on the injured lists but are not injured at all... they're only there because it doesn't make sense to carry them on the roster.

You say that but offer nothing to back it up. No facts or history. Do you have any roster listings that show ol constantly on every teams 2 man res? Or any thing else that expresses the point? Or just cus you say so?

[Mike]

 

Just now, wbbfan said:

You say that but offer nothing to back it up. No facts or history. Do you have any roster listings that show ol constantly on every teams 2 man res? Or any thing else that expresses the point? Or just cus you say so?

If I provide you with this, will you apologize for being incredibly wrong and stop arguing a point that I know for fact is 100% wrong?

Because I'll go through the work to do it if you will.

[wbbfan]

http://www.cfl.ca/transactions/

NON-ACTIVE                            11-Aug-16

TOR REM SGD  NAT Kevin BRADFIELD  (WR)    Toronto

TOR REM SGD  INT Jerald BROWN (DB)    Glenville State College

 

NON-ACTIVE                            10-Aug-16

MTL REM SGD  INT Raymon TAYLOR (DB)    Michigan

 

SSK REM UNS  INT Anthony CRISWELL (DL)    Missouri

NON-ACTIVE                            09-Aug-16

MTL ADD  NAT James BODANIS (OL)    Michigan State

MTL ADD  INT Greg MCGHEE (QB)    Howard

MTL REM UNS  INT Nate ISLES (OL)    North Carolina A&T State

. 8	NON-ACTIVE                            08-Aug-16 TOR ADD  INT Dan LEFEVOUR (QB)    Central Michigan   BC REM UNS  INT Damaris JOHNSON (WR)    Tulsa

NON-ACTIVE                            07-Aug-16

TOR ADD  NAT Kevin BRADFIELD  (WR)    Toronto

TOR ADD  INT Jerald BROWN (DB)    Glenville State College

TOR REM UNS  INT Markeith AMBLES (WR)    Houston

NON-ACTIVE                            03-Aug-16

MTL REM UNS  INT Merrill NOEL (CB)    Wake Forest

 

OTT ADD  INT Serderius BRYANT (LB)    Mississippi

OTT REM SGD  INT Nicholas TAYLOR (DB)    Florida International

 

SSK ADD  INT Johnnie DIXON (DB)    Pearl River CC

SSK ADD  NAT Raye HARTMANN (DB)    St. Francis Xavier

SSK ADD  NAT Aaron PICTON (OL)    Regina

SSK REM SGD  NAT Kristopher BASTIEN (WR)    Concordia

SSK REM SGD  NAT Ivan BROWN (DL)    Saskatchewan

SSK REM UNS  INT Kacy RODGERS (DB)    Miami

 

CAL ADD  INT Demonte BOLDEN (DL)    Tennessee

CAL ADD  NAT Matt BUCKNOR (DB)    Windsor

CAL REM SGD  INT Osagie ODIASE (DB)    Sacramento State

 

BC REM SGD  INT Anthony GAITOR (DB)    Florida International

BC REM SGD  INT Andrew HUDSON (DE)    Washington

BC REM SGD  NAT Nehemie KANKOLONGO  (LB)    Wyoming

 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

54 minutes ago, White Out said:

I'm very curious to see how Nichols holds up, and if the D can continue to turn the ball over. 

I hope we see Drew back in behind center soon- I feel Nichols is going to peter out soon.

Me thinks Drew will be all fired up and come out gun ablazin' and we will see an amazing comeback. 

[wbbfan]

7 minutes ago, Atomic said:

That's speculation not backed up by facts or any recent history.  No one carries more than 8 on the roster, no one dresses more than 6.  In fact you may find that several OL are on the injured lists but are not injured at all... they're only there because it doesn't make sense to carry them on the roster.

There i searched it and found the transaction listing. 1 ol changing spots with another, and one other ol. All theres are not ol. You can dig through more then i showed if you care to and post the results if you like. But glancing down a few weeks, ol do not appear there more then any other position. Wr seems to be the most common. But thats at a glance.

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

If I provide you with this, will you apologize for being incredibly wrong and stop arguing a point that I know for fact is 100% wrong?

Because I'll go through the work to do it if you will.

allready posted the none active roster transactions page. If i go through and give you a tally showing other wise will you?

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

6 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

If I provide you with this, will you apologize for being incredibly wrong and stop arguing a point that I know for fact is 100% wrong?

Because I'll go through the work to do it if you will.

This fair wbbfan, in the pursuit of sanity- please take up the challenge.

[Mike]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

allready posted the none active roster transactions page. If i go through and give you a tally showing other wise will you?

The transaction page has nothing to do with anything, the 2-man reserve doesn't move from the active roster to a different area so your futile attempt to provide evidence to backup your claims means nothing.

Week 1:

Ottawa, BC, Toronto, Hamilton dressed 7 OL, everyone else dressed 6.

Week 2:

BC, Toronto, Hamilton dressed 7 OL, everyone else except Saskatchewan dressed 6, Saskatchewan dressed 5.

The pattern remains consistent for the rest of the season to date, with variations here and there for injuries. The other thing to keep in mind is that Hamilton and BC both have a backup OL doing their long-snapping as opposed to Chad Rempel, who is not classified as an OL so while they're on the roster as backup OL, they're essentially only filling that role in name only.

Nobody has dressed 8 OL this year. Nobody has dressed 7 OL AND a designated long-snapper either. You want to know where I got that information from? The official roster sheets that list game day rosters AND the 2-man reserve.

Thanks.

[Atomic]

3 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

There i searched it and found the transaction listing. 1 ol changing spots with another, and one other ol. All theres are not ol. You can dig through more then i showed if you care to and post the results if you like. But glancing down a few weeks, ol do not appear there more then any other position. Wr seems to be the most common. But thats at a glance.

Gameday inactives are not listed in the CFL transactions.  For example the first entry is Jerald Brown and Kevin Bradfield moving from the PR to the active roster.  Nothing to do with gameday inactives.

[Mike]

Oh and just to clarify the point I was trying to make: 1 team out of 9 is consistently dressing 2 backup offensive linemen that serve no purpose other than to serve as a backup offensive lineman. 2 teams out of 9 regularly dress 2 backups, but 1 of them is a designated long snapper. 6 out of 9 teams have consistently been dressing 1 backup lineman.

And if you want to validate my claims, you can go look up the official scoring sheets at cflmedia.ca