Giving MOS an out

[IC Khari]

Okey Dokey ...

[Noeller]

Not surprising he'd go to bat for him. MOS and Milanovich have been close friends for a long time.

[17to85]

It's also ******* true. 

[Tracker]

The 'lack of talent" argument goes only do far. O'Shea has made a lot of mistakes in assessing and using talent, choosing subordinates and managing the team on-field that his future should be far from certain here.

[HardCoreBlue]

14 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

It's also ******* true. 

Okay, fair enough, so let's say it's true. I'm assuming that came up in his job interview with Walters and company (because another assumption is O'Shea researched the existing roster to prepare for the interview) and for him to do his job well, there was an upgrade needed and that hasn't happened till now. I'm assuming.

I get the argument but it's always a tricky thing to prove as a black and white argument. It's called shared accountability, blame I think for the last several years would be nicely distributed.

[Goalie]

Our cdn depth has dramatically improved and you can't do that in 1 season. It takes time. I also think that when a new regime comes in and puts together a new neg list of players it also takes time for these guys to agree to come up here. I actually wonder if people realize the damage that Joe mack really did to the team in terms of cdn depth. 

I think you are seeing what a lack of Canadian talent and depth does when you look at this year's riders 

[Jpan85]

the neg list things is a big thing

[Atomic]

What does he mean by win?  Win the Grey Cup?  2014 was one game out of the playoffs, if we had anyone other than Etcheverry as DC, I'm sure that team had the talent to make the playoffs.

[17to85]

Here is a big one... This is the first year the bombers have had any kind of depth at qb. Not the only position with much better depth either

[do or die]

Hell, our Canadian depth sucked, before Kelly and Mack got here.   It's a process, alright.....

[Nash00]

Lack of Canadian depth, QB depth etc.. They always laboured the 3 year process mantra, but it's hard to preach patience to a fanbase that hasn't won in 20+ years.

No one can blame Walters for not trying to supplement the roster and the scouting staff has finally bore fruit in regards to rookie imports in both starter and depth roles. This is O`Shea`s most complete roster to work with and now the onus is on him to keep winning with it. We have proven to be able to weather the storm when injuries occur this year so that`s not a crutch for him anymore.

[wbbfan]

Dont agree with that. Its easily his best team, but this team should be better then its record. Mos has been underwhelming and not gotten the most out of any one. Not to mention MB at OC then going to plop. Both sides play too conservative. If he makes the play offs, he goes into next year as our HC. If not hes done. Same situation it was going into the season. 

[Noeller]

1 hour ago, wbbfan said:

Dont agree with that. Its easily his best team, but this team should be better then its record. Mos has been underwhelming and not gotten the most out of any one. Not to mention MB at OC then going to plop. Both sides play too conservative. If he makes the play offs, he goes into next year as our HC. If not hes done. Same situation it was going into the season. 

that's quite a statement...

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, Noeller said:

that's quite a statement...

Perhaps a better way to put it would be I dont think at any point under mos including now has the team played as the sum of its parts. Some individuals will perform no matter who coaches them or if no one does. Some will perform better with a coach like mos, some with a strict coach etc.

A good coach gets a team to play as the sum of its part and a great coach has a team playing as more then the sum of its parts. The talent we have at wr and rb, and ol, the DL talent, etc.

My point is however, it doesnt matter what excuses or reasons come up. The only out, is making the play offs. Short of a big run in the play offs, it buys him into early next season. 

[Noeller]

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Perhaps a better way to put it would be I dont think at any point under mos including now has the team played as the sum of its parts. Some individuals will perform no matter who coaches them or if no one does. Some will perform better with a coach like mos, some with a strict coach etc.

A good coach gets a team to play as the sum of its part and a great coach has a team playing as more then the sum of its parts. The talent we have at wr and rb, and ol, the DL talent, etc.

My point is however, it doesnt matter what excuses or reasons come up. The only out, is making the play offs. Short of a big run in the play offs, it buys him into early next season. 

that's more fair....I can live with that......tho I'd say last week's first half would disprove the statement.

[wbbfan]

1 minute ago, Noeller said:

that's more fair....I can live with that......tho I'd say last week's first half would disprove the statement.

Last two weeks hasnt been this team playing at par with its talent level. Harris, jace davis, our Dline, etc. Its better, certainly. But still not on par with the talent. 

[17to85]

You know until this year the thing that crippled the team was having to go to the depth and the depth not being able to play, this year we actually have guys coming off the bench into the game doing well. THAT is what people talk about when they say the roster is better. We now have some depth to get through injuries and actually push starters (possibly even out of the lineup) this is the first time since Walters has been here we can actually say that. 

[wbbfan]

38 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

You know until this year the thing that crippled the team was having to go to the depth and the depth not being able to play, this year we actually have guys coming off the bench into the game doing well. THAT is what people talk about when they say the roster is better. We now have some depth to get through injuries and actually push starters (possibly even out of the lineup) this is the first time since Walters has been here we can actually say that. 

Depth is certainly better this year then any year since maybe pre mack. Atleast, where we have been hurt. We cant afford another injury on the OL. Or to harris (if flanders produced like he showed in pre season we'd still lose a starting IMP which would have to come from the OL) Or to NI wr, or interior DL.

Very few teams would play there best ball through soo many injuries. The depth is exceptional right now, if it was average we'd be in trouble. I think our depth is among the best in the league, if not the best. I credit that to our front office. The fact we kept running out macho with loffler on the bench, neufeld with bond on the bench, JFG, etc i worry about Mos ability to put the best players on the field from the roster he has. 

[HardCoreBlue]

43 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Depth is certainly better this year then any year since maybe pre mack. Atleast, where we have been hurt. We cant afford another injury on the OL. Or to harris (if flanders produced like he showed in pre season we'd still lose a starting IMP which would have to come from the OL) Or to NI wr, or interior DL.

Very few teams would play there best ball through soo many injuries. The depth is exceptional right now, if it was average we'd be in trouble. I think our depth is among the best in the league, if not the best. I credit that to our front office. The fact we kept running out macho with loffler on the bench, neufeld with bond on the bench, JFG, etc i worry about Mos ability to put the best players on the field from the roster he has. 

That is a really interesting debate to have. Thanks for raising.

[17to85]

Every coach will play experience ahead of rookies until they have no choice. After the rookie gets a chance and proves himself you might see a change.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

Every coach will play experience ahead of rookies until they have no choice. After the rookie gets a chance and proves himself you might see a change.

This statement is way to general. My observation is this, sometimes, is not as black and white in they way you presented it.

Inserting a rookie doesn't just happen when there is no other choice, at least that's been my experience.

[wbbfan]

10 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Every coach will play experience ahead of rookies until they have no choice. After the rookie gets a chance and proves himself you might see a change.

ehh idk some teams do a much better job of getting better young players in early then others. That type of dave ritchie mentality very often leads to an old team that becomes long in the tooth and comes up short on the field.

 

4 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

This statement is way to general. My observation is this, sometimes, is not as black and white in they way you presented it.

Inserting a rookie doesn't just happen when there is no other choice, at least that's been my experience.

agree when you have under performing vets plenty of coaches will go for a shake up move. 

 

[mbrg]

Very few CIS rookies are ready to assume a starting role in the CFL in year 1.  Next to none are ready in week 1.

[wbbfan]

12 minutes ago, mbrg said:

Very few CIS rookies are ready to assume a starting role in the CFL in year 1.  Next to none are ready in week 1.

The draft isnt just cis guys.

How many rookie dbs like frederick are ready to step in and contribute at that level? It doesnt matter at all what the norm is. What matters is the talent on the roster. You have to evaluate the players you have and make decisions based on them. Not pre conceived notions. 

Josiah st john, phillippe gagnon, alex singleton, trent corney, loffler, lots of guys drafted this year have been starting or had a huge impact thats just off the top of my head. 

[17to85]

GMs are much more likely to give a chance to rookies than coaches and let's be honest here, some of those guys you've listed as starting aren't even starting and some of them only got the chance because of injuries. Rookies are an unknown, coaches hate unknowns.