Alberta Economy & Oil (Split Discussion)

[Tracker]

51 minutes ago, Mark F said:

i'm going to say that collaros is the best quarterback in the league.

 

and Hamilton wins

 

I think Calgary is not as good as people think.

Calgary has a huuuge downtown. looks nice.

sack on a three man rush is ugly might have to change my predicition

predicshun.

Calgary has a big downtown, including a very good blues bar, but it has a lot of empty offices and businesses now. Hard hit by cheap oil.  Drove by a U-haul place yesterday and they had a big sign out that they were offering bargain U-Haul rates on moving trucks going to Alberta.

[Mark F]

yeah, see a fair number of alberta plates around wpg these days.

[Guest J5V]

18 minutes ago, tracker said:

Calgary has a big downtown, including a very good blues bar, but it has a lot of empty offices and businesses now. Hard hit by cheap oil.  Drove by a U-haul place yesterday and they had a big sign out that they were offering bargain U-Haul rates on moving trucks going to Alberta.

It's too bad Albertans thumbed their noses at the rest of Canada whilst they were awash in oil revenues. Hard to feel sorry for them now.

[Tracker]

We got out just in time. The house we sold in 2013 is worth about $20,000 less now. Nice to be home.

[B-F-F-C]

15 minutes ago, J5V said:

It's too bad Albertans thumbed their noses at the rest of Canada whilst they were awash in oil revenues. Hard to feel sorry for them now.

Wow...the rest of Canada wasn't complaining when the the rest of Canada came to Alberta and worked in the energy sector.  There are many many Maritimers that  today have houses and can properly support their families because of Alberta.  Also, the tax revenues generated from Alberta's energy industry have indirectly helped many Canadians and not only Albertans.  

So, think about that before you crap on a very proud province who's going thru a tough time.

[Tracker]

1 minute ago, B-F-F-C said:

Wow...the rest of Canada wasn't complaining when the the rest of Canada came to Alberta and worked in the energy sector.  There are many many Maritimers that  today have houses and can properly support their families because of Alberta.  Also, the tax revenues generated from Alberta's energy industry have indirectly helped many Canadians and not only Albertans.  

So, think about that before you crap on a very proud province who's going thru a tough time.

There was a lot of arrogance in Alberta during the boom years, plus a lot of corruption. That doesn't make them all that special, as there was some of that sort of thinking in Ontario as well in their plush times. Albertans relate a lot to oil-rich Texas and whine about sharing revenues. Most do not want to hear about the rest of Canada bailing Alberta out of bankruptcy several times in the late 30's. We see what we want to see.

[Mark F]

pretty easy to make the some of the mistakes they've made in alberta, not many, including experts of all kinds, thought that oil would bust again... cause of a number of things.

but..... someone told me the provincial royalty on oil was one percent. That is probably they're biggest, dumbest mistake.

go cats!

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Mark F

[B-F-F-C]

19 minutes ago, tracker said:

There was a lot of arrogance in Alberta during the boom years, plus a lot of corruption. That doesn't make them all that special, as there was some of that sort of thinking in Ontario as well in their plush times. Albertans relate a lot to oil-rich Texas and whine about sharing revenues. Most do not want to hear about the rest of Canada bailing Alberta out of bankruptcy several times in the late 30's. We see what we want to see.

Corruption?  I don't say anything unless I can back it up.  But I guess you don't follow that same rule.    Do you ***** about paying high taxes?  I'm sure you do.   Trust me...we don't need your money and we don't expect it. 

 

[B-F-F-C]

13 minutes ago, Mark F said:

pretty easy to make the some of the mistakes they've made in alberta, not many, including experts of all kinds, thought that oil would bust again... cause of a number of things.

but..... someone told me the provincial royalty on oil was one percent. That is probably they're biggest, dumbest mistake.

go cats!

 

The Royalty structure has many facets but I can guarantee you that overall it's more than 1%.  

[Mark F]

5 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

The Royalty structure has many facets but I can guarantee you that overall it's more than 1%.  

I don't know.

would you agree that Alberta  should have done more to diversify the economy? Not sure what they have done in the dept. since the prior bust in the early eighties, but I don't think very much has been done to stop depending so much on oil.

anyway, I don't wish any province any ill will, hope something can be done to turn it around.

[BBlink]

Move this thread to general discussion? 

[B-F-F-C]

10 minutes ago, Mark F said:

I don't know.

would you agree that Alberta  should have done more to diversify the economy? Not sure what they have done in the dept. since the prior bust in the early eighties, but I don't think very much has been done to stop depending so much on oil.

anyway, I don't wish any province any ill will, hope something can be done to turn it around.

Could they have done more?  Sure and they tried but when investors see the returns available in the energy sector it's difficult to entice them to put they're money elsewhere. 

To me the proof of diversification is what we're seeing in the financial sector.  The banks suffered greatly in the 80's when everyday people would walk in to your office and drop their house keys on your desk.   This downturn hasn't seen the same level of defaults nor the same level of writedowns for non performing loans. 

So...yes the alberta economy has diversified but it's easy for outsiders to lay the blame at our feet.    

Peace out 

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by B-F-F-C

[Guest J5V]

50 minutes ago, tracker said:

There was a lot of arrogance in Alberta during the boom years, plus a lot of corruption. That doesn't make them all that special, as there was some of that sort of thinking in Ontario as well in their plush times. Albertans relate a lot to oil-rich Texas and whine about sharing revenues. Most do not want to hear about the rest of Canada bailing Alberta out of bankruptcy several times in the late 30's. We see what we want to see.

[Tracker]

57 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

Corruption?  I don't say anything unless I can back it up.  But I guess you don't follow that same rule.    Do you ***** about paying high taxes?  I'm sure you do.   Trust me...we don't need your money and we don't expect it. 

 

I can back it up. And I do not complain about high taxes when the services are there when needed. You may want to talk to folks in High River who received all manner of extravagant promises after the flood and were abandoned by the provincial government as soon as the publicity died down.

Edited August 29, 2016 by tracker

[B-F-F-C]

12 minutes ago, tracker said:

I can back it up. And I do not complain about high taxes when the services are there when needed. You may want to talk to folks in High River who received all manner of extravagant promises after the flood and were abandoned by the provincial government as soon as the publicity died down.

Sorry to burst your bubble but every government on this earth has  not lived  up to a promise made.  

Got anything else?

 

[iso_55]

2 hours ago, J5V said:

It's too bad Albertans thumbed their noses at the rest of Canada whilst they were awash in oil revenues. Hard to feel sorry for them now.

And Toronto is the centre of the universe & Canada does not exist west of the Ontario border, Gosh, what province controls the political system in this country?? Just who thumbs their noses at who??? Ohhhhhh, Ontario. And, why is the monetary policy in this country all about a weak Canadian dollar? To protect all those precious manufacturing jobs in where?? Ohhhhh, Ontario.

Edited August 29, 2016 by iso_55

[Mark H.]

5 minutes ago, iso_55 said:

And Toronto is the centre of the universe & Canada does not exist west of the Ontario border, Gosh, what province controls the political system in this country?? Just who thumbs their noses at who??? Ohhhhhh, Ontario. And, why is the monetary policy in this country all about a weak Canadian dollar? To protect all those precious manufacturing jobs in where?? Ohhhhh, Ontario.

Doesn't a weak dollar help oil exports?

 

[iso_55]

Just now, Mark H. said:

Doesn't a weak dollar help oil exports?

 

Well sure because it protects jobs in the manufacturing sector of Ontario. We all pay more for everything but it's nice to know Harper & Trudeau take care of their voter base.

[FrostyWinnipeg]

You knew peeps in AB were different went their Premier yelled at some homeless guys when he was drunk and the public just shrugged.

In this province you'd have to resign within 24hrs.

[17to85]

13 hours ago, Mark F said:

I don't know.

would you agree that Alberta  should have done more to diversify the economy? Not sure what they have done in the dept. since the prior bust in the early eighties, but I don't think very much has been done to stop depending so much on oil.

anyway, I don't wish any province any ill will, hope something can be done to turn it around.

Alberta is actually fairly diverse, much moreso than a place like Manitoba. The problem is oil was huge. Like humongous big. It dominated and paid more money than most other industries could match. The Alberta economy before this crash was really overheated. An out of control boom. **** the royalty rate that's a poor argument. We paid low taxes and used oil to fund government instead of taxing people up the ass like norway does.

[Mark F]

12 hours ago, iso_55 said:

Well sure because it protects jobs in the manufacturing sector of Ontario. We all pay more for everything but it's nice to know Harper & Trudeau take care of their voter base.

"Doesn't a weak dollar help oil exports?"

 

For the most part, oil is traded on the world market, sales are in US dollars. Sadaam tried to start dealing in other than US dollars for oil sales.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Mark F

[Tracker]

6 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Alberta is actually fairly diverse, much moreso than a place like Manitoba. The problem is oil was huge. Like humongous big. It dominated and paid more money than most other industries could match. The Alberta economy before this crash was really overheated. An out of control boom. **** the royalty rate that's a poor argument. We paid low taxes and used oil to fund government instead of taxing people up the ass like norway does.

Norway at last count had something like $150 billion (US) in diversified investments all around the world, free healthcare, including prescription drugs, free physiotherapy, free eye care, free child care, free psychological care, free elder-care, free post-secondary education (for those who qualify academically) and is consistently in the top three in the world in standards of living and resident satisfaction. And Alberta.....? Well, a really nice penthouse for the previous premier.

[Tracker]

18 hours ago, B-F-F-C said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but every government on this earth has  not lived  up to a promise made.  

Got anything else?

 

Yes. During my time in Alberta, my work brought me in contact with healthcare regional management, school boards, municipal and civic administrations, and so forth. While it was illegal for any organization to donate directly to any political party, if these organizations did not "voluntarily" buy tickets coasting several hundred dollars each to fundraising dinners, their funding and/or grant proposals would be denied or reduced dramatically. 

When the enumerator came around to count the number of eligible voters in our home, as soon as she had that information, she produced a registration book for the ruling provincial party and tried to both sign us up as PC members and enlist us as election workers for the pending election. I called the provincial elections office who took the the information and promised to have someone call back "soon". Still waiting.

And that does not even cover the purchases of materials and equipment.

Edited August 29, 2016 by tracker

[17to85]

10 minutes ago, tracker said:

Norway at last count had something like $150 billion (US) in diversified investments all around the world, free healthcare, including prescription drugs, free physiotherapy, free eye care, free child care, free psychological care, free elder-care, free post-secondary education (for those who qualify academically) and is consistently in the top three in the world in standards of living and resident satisfaction. And Alberta.....? Well, a really nice penthouse for the previous premier.

And a giant tax rate too. Let's not pretend otherwise.

[Tracker]

Just now, 17to85 said:

And a giant tax rate too. Let's not pretend otherwise.

No question. All the Nordic countries as well as Germany and Austria do, yet they consistently have the highest resident satisfaction rates, lowest crime rates, the lowest infant mortality and suicide rates and among the highest adult lifespans in the world.  No system is perfect, but resident satisfaction and economic growth and stability have to be pretty good ways of judging how well societies function. Interestingly, in countries with large income gaps between the very rich and very poor, the rich live and average of 3 1/2 years longer in countries with narrowed income gaps.