Lawless says there is trade market for Willy

[LimJahey]

5 hours ago, Noeller said:

Have a peek at Scott Milanovich's QB history. If SM wants a guy as his QB, that's saying something........

He started Kilgore for 3 games, the guy is worse than Alex Brink smh

[Blueandgold]

I'm thinking a team like Toronto might be willing to give up more for Willy in the off season. I would personally hold onto him through the season unless we get assets plus a solid back up(Glenn) in whatever deal we make. I've been as disgusted by his play as anyone here, but I'd like to see him play again before we give him away.

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, LimJahey said:

He started Kilgore for 3 games, the guy is worse than Alex Brink smh

If only he had your knowledge to fall back on

[LimJahey]

5 minutes ago, Atomic said:

If only he had your knowledge to fall back on

 

Post of the year right here. 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

5 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Toronto's willing to pay Willy $400K, but they weren't willing to pay Harris anywhere near that kind of money? 

Because Kilgore is a bust now?

[wbbfan]

14 minutes ago, LimJahey said:

"everything around was the problem, nothing was on WIlly". Give me a break, Willy had open receivers, time in the pocket and the same defense we have now and did absolutely nothing.

Willy was completing passes at a very similar rate to nichols. he was missing guys but had drops too. We went from giving up the most sacks and hits on the qb to what one sack in 2 games? No hits at all in the game before last. It wasnt all willy, just like it isnt all nichols. The team over all was playing much poorer at that point, and its not all because of the qb either way. 

[Atomic]

5 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

Toronto's willing to pay Willy $400K, but they weren't willing to pay Harris anywhere near that kind of money? 

Keep in mind they wouldn't be paying him 410k this year.  It would be 410k minus the 70k Willy got up front, minus half the season's worth of salary (340k/2=170k).  So they would only be adding 170k on the books for this season.  Next season, who knows what they would do?  Certainly they're not obligated to keep Willy at 410k.

[LimJahey]

2 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Willy was completing passes at a very similar rate to nichols. he was missing guys but had drops too. We went from giving up the most sacks and hits on the qb to what one sack in 2 games? No hits at all in the game before last. It wasnt all willy, just like it isnt all nichols. The team over all was playing much poorer at that point, and its not all because of the qb either way. 

i agree its too early to give up on Willy i'm just saying all things equal Nichols has made the best of his opportunity and Willy did not.

Getting rid of Willy at this point would be foolish because if your theory is correct or now that Willy has had a few weeks to watch from the sidelines and a few weeks to watch film things could be much different for him.  

[wbbfan]

15 minutes ago, LimJahey said:

He started Kilgore for 3 games, the guy is worse than Alex Brink smh

how many starts did marcus crandell get for wally buono? You have any idea how many turds he turned over to find his diamonds? Kilgore had some nice flashes early. But fyi early khari jones ,ricky ray, damon allen, jeff garcia, ac etc werent world beaters either. How long did it take for ricky ray to take the starter job from maas? 

But no his no1 qb was hurt and the guy he developed left in the previous off season so he was running out a  young guy and had to see what he had. He had flashes, and struggles, especially against our ridiculous turn over forcing D. He totally should have dominated. fire SM

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Instead of trying to poke holes in my argument, you should try strengthening yours because it's full of holes at this point in time.

Drew Willy, in the past, has shown that he is capable of playing at a high level that is good enough to win football games. Drew Willy, in the recent past, has shown that he is also capable of struggling and playing poorly to the point that it is clearly not good enough to win football games.

He's done both. So why are you so hung up on the most recent body of work? Because it's a "what have you done for me lately" business? That's fine. And that's your prerogative. But it's not a solid argument.

Here's my argument: comparing Nichols and Willy right now is an apples-to-oranges comparison, because Willy has never had the one thing that Nichols has been handed that has been so beneficial to his success - a high performing offensive line. You can blame the offensive line struggles on Willy and it's certainly true that you'd be able to argue that at times, he has not helped their situation by clinging onto the ball too long. Was it a regular enough occurrence that it's worth considering as a major factor? Not in my opinion.

Compare Nichols 2016 to Nichols 2015 instead. Look how bad Nichols looked last year with the same personnel Willy was operating with. It was a clear cut case that Willy was the superior quarterback. Now here's the thing: you have to pick a side at this point. Either Nichols 2016 is looking a whole lot better because of the sudden reshuffling of the offensive line OR Nichols 2016 improved from Nichols 2015. Here's the tricky part for you as a Willy detractor: either one of those choices really shoots some holes in your argument.

If Nichols 2016 can be better than Nichols 2015, why can't Willy 2016 be better than Willy early 2016? It obviously can happen. Situations change. Circumstances change. Players can slump. Players can regain form. It's not a "one-and-done" business. And obviously the professionals believe that. So why don't you?

If that's not the side you choose to be on and you think Nichols is so much better this year because of the personnel surrounding him, then obviously it's difficult to write Willy off because he has yet to be given a chance to work with that very same personnel. The offensive line changes were the catalyst to our season. Nichols has not lit the world on fire, but the offensive line sure as heck has. So it stands to reason that Drew Willy, shellshocked nature and all, could very easily come back in and turn his opportunity with a revamped line into something that leads to him shaking that vacant look off and regaining the form that he's shown in the past.

Edited August 29, 2016 by wanna-b-fanboy

[Nash00]

4 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Willy was completing passes at a very similar rate to nichols. he was missing guys but had drops too. We went from giving up the most sacks and hits on the qb to what one sack in 2 games? No hits at all in the game before last. It wasnt all willy, just like it isnt all nichols. The team over all was playing much poorer at that point, and its not all because of the qb either way. 

Doesn't hurt that the o-line Nichols has is playing light years ahead of what Willy was working with either. I think if/when Drew comes back in we will see more of the successful version.* He started with Goossen getting his first real reps as starting C and going through growing pains there but he seems to have gotten better, Chungh has improved every game, no one will argue Bond has been a stud in the interior and now Foketi is showing out as well.

*provided the o-line is the same if/when he returns

[wbbfan]

Just now, LimJahey said:

i agree its too early to give up on Willy i'm just saying all things equal Nichols has made the best of his opportunity and Willy did not.

Getting rid of Willy at this point would be foolish because if your theory is correct or now that Willy has had a few weeks to watch from the sidelines and a few weeks to watch film things could be much different for him.  

Willy didnt. But nichols hasnt exactly lit things up with great field position either. He has gotten dramatically better field position and tons more turn overs from the D plus a drastically improved OL. 

Willy is a gamble at this point. Cant have any idea how he is really going to re act when put back in. If we can get talent that helps now and some futures thats not bad at all. Our system isnt overly demanding of the qb, its a ton of high percentage passes and taking what the D gives you. A guy like him probably does best with a change of scenery and reduction in pressure. 

[LimJahey]

1 minute ago, wbbfan said:

Willy didnt. But nichols hasnt exactly lit things up with great field position either. He has gotten dramatically better field position and tons more turn overs from the D plus a drastically improved OL. 

Willy is a gamble at this point. Cant have any idea how he is really going to re act when put back in. If we can get talent that helps now and some futures thats not bad at all. Our system isnt overly demanding of the qb, its a ton of high percentage passes and taking what the D gives you. A guy like him probably does best with a change of scenery and reduction in pressure. 

Nichols hasnt lost a game yet and youre complaining about what? I swear all of you are some weird Bombers Illuminati hired by the club. 

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, Nash00 said:

Doesn't hurt that the o-line Nichols has is playing light years ahead of what Willy was working with either. I think if/when Drew comes back in we will see more of the successful version.* He started with Goossen getting his first real reps as starting C and going through growing pains there but he seems to have gotten better, Chungh has improved every game, no one will argue Bond has been a stud in the interior and now Foketi is showing out as well.

*provided the o-line is the same if/when he returns

No doubt. It seems like we are finally getting the bob wylie effect. Doesnt hurt we have the best talent on the field and healthy for the most part either.

All depends on his mind set imop. If he comes back playing his best ball with a fire lit under his butt, or even the ball he played early last year and prior I wouldnt be surprised to see him take the starters spot back. But if he sees time again, or if he is repairing his confidence and mental ability is a big question. 

[Nash00]

7 minutes ago, Nash00 said:

Doesn't hurt that the o-line Nichols has is playing light years ahead of what Willy was working with either. I think if/when Drew comes back in we will see more of the successful version.* He started with Goossen getting his first real reps as starting C and going through growing pains there but he seems to have gotten better, Chungh has improved every game, no one will argue Bond has been a stud in the interior and now Foketi is showing out as well.

*provided the o-line is the same if/when he returns

Apparently I also need to make the caveat to this post that while I am stating that I think Willy will come back and play well, that doesn't mean I endorse him over Nichols or that I don't think Nichols has done enough since being named starter.

Didn't think I needed to add that but 5 pages later, here we are.

[JuranBoldenRules]

12 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Willy was completing passes at a very similar rate to nichols. he was missing guys but had drops too. We went from giving up the most sacks and hits on the qb to what one sack in 2 games? No hits at all in the game before last. It wasnt all willy, just like it isnt all nichols. The team over all was playing much poorer at that point, and its not all because of the qb either way. 

Exactly.  The absolute best thing I can say about Nichols is that he hasn't turned the ball over.  Other than that he's been bad to average, especially in the past two games.  There have been long stretches in 3 of his 4 starts where getting a first down was a challenge, even with a decent running game and a lot of time to make reads.  Lapo's play calling has a hand in that too.

 

If Willy was afforded the assets Nichols has had in his 4 starts I don't believe he'd be any less productive and there's a good chance he'd be more productive.  To me it's just a matter of time until this is Willy's team again, ride the hot hand and keep them both as a tandem.

[Nash00]

3 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

No doubt. It seems like we are finally getting the bob wylie effect. Doesnt hurt we have the best talent on the field and healthy for the most part either.

All depends on his mind set imop. If he comes back playing his best ball with a fire lit under his butt, or even the ball he played early last year and prior I wouldnt be surprised to see him take the starters spot back. But if he sees time again, or if he is repairing his confidence and mental ability is a big question. 

Yep. We really don't know how he will respond to this as he hasn't been benched for performance since being named the starter. We should know by season's end how he decides to run with it.

[Mark F]

22 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

Because Kilgore is a bust now?

he's had three games. career..... over!

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Mark F

[TBURGESS]

11 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Keep in mind they wouldn't be paying him 410k this year.  It would be 410k minus the 70k Willy got up front, minus half the season's worth of salary (340k/2=170k).  So they would only be adding 170k on the books for this season.  Next season, who knows what they would do?  Certainly they're not obligated to keep Willy at 410k.

Fair assessment. I read about the $70K up front this morning. $170K for half a season still seems like a high price to pay for Willy, however considering how bad Kilgore's looked...

[tacklewasher]

I would not want Glen at this point in the season. It's getting colder and that is when he starts to turtle.

I'm in the keep Willy camp. He doesn't get to start unless something goes sideways with Nichols, but I also think he could step in and do a decent job given the other changes in our teams play. Especially the o-line play.

We're winning now with an okay QB. I think we can continue to win with another okay QB.

[kelownabomberfan]

1 hour ago, tacklewasher said:

If your argument is based on not understanding when an appeal to authority is a logical fallacy, you've lost. Hint. If the authority being appealed to as an actual authority on the subject, it is not a logical fallacy.

Pet peeve of mine where people think any reference to an authority is a logical fallacy.

 

Craig Button and Bob McKenzie say that Auston Matthews is a good player on the Toronto team.  Therefore we should trade Drew Willy for Auston Matthews.

[wbbfan]

5 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Exactly.  The absolute best thing I can say about Nichols is that he hasn't turned the ball over.  Other than that he's been bad to average, especially in the past two games.  There have been long stretches in 3 of his 4 starts where getting a first down was a challenge, even with a decent running game and a lot of time to make reads.  Lapo's play calling has a hand in that too.

 

If Willy was afforded the assets Nichols has had in his 4 starts I don't believe he'd be any less productive and there's a good chance he'd be more productive.  To me it's just a matter of time until this is Willy's team again, ride the hot hand and keep them both as a tandem.

yeah weve had some dismal offensive halfs of football with him. Weve seen a couple pick 6s dropped by the d, and wrs break up would be picks. Its funny how some people think nichols is responsible for the turn around of the OL, and D but isnt the reason why we struggle when we do. The prejudice of winning. Nichols may be able to evolve into a very good manage the game, dont lose the game kind of qb. hes been part of why weve won for certain. But the main stay of the credit goes to D and ol. 

7 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Fair assessment. I read about the $70K up front this morning. $170K for half a season still seems like a high price to pay for Willy, however considering how bad Kilgore's looked...

Thats a good point too. If your qb is struggling that much, no $ price is too much to fix it. How much did mtl dish out last year for a half a season from henoc? Wasnt it some thing crazy like 200-250k?

[Tracker]

54 minutes ago, Noeller said:

For me, it's both. The dude CLEARLY knows what he's doing when it comes to managing an offense in the CFL, and grooming QBs. If he tells me that he thinks Drew Willy is a guy he wants, there is just no way you can argue it sanely.

Sanity is for people who can't handle drugs, and is highly over rated.

[Blueandgold]

19 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

Exactly.  The absolute best thing I can say about Nichols is that he hasn't turned the ball over.  Other than that he's been bad to average, especially in the past two games.  There have been long stretches in 3 of his 4 starts where getting a first down was a challenge, even with a decent running game and a lot of time to make reads.  Lapo's play calling has a hand in that too.

 

If Willy was afforded the assets Nichols has had in his 4 starts I don't believe he'd be any less productive and there's a good chance he'd be more productive.  To me it's just a matter of time until this is Willy's team again, ride the hot hand and keep them both as a tandem.

Willy had a subpar O-line, but had great receivers. Nichols has a pretty good O-line, but horrific receivers. These things tend to balance themselves out.

How would Nichols do if he was ''afforded assets'' like Weston Dressler, Darvin Adams and Ryan Smith?

[wbbfan]

2 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

Willy had a subpar O-line, but had great receivers. Nichols has a pretty good O-line, but horrific receivers. These things tend to balance themselves out.

How would Nichols do if he was ''afforded assets'' like Weston Dressler, Darvin Adams and Ryan Smith?

Mmm idk, dressler has been banged up a lot this year and smith hadnt found a chemistry. I wouldnt say this group of WRs is horrific by any stretch. neither willy or nichols could find kohlert this year to save their lives. Nichols hadnt looked at harris at all going into last game. Where he finally got decent use as a pass catcher. Denmark in his stretch has been our best wr this year. Mayo has been good too. Willy certainly had more star power at wr. 

Plops offensive play call has also been improving with the season. Last game and the first hammy win really stand out to me. 

id love to know how either guy would perform with 100% healthy and best talent on the field. Im hoping more for the rest of the team to be healthy and on the field more then which qb starts. And for plop to continue to refine his offense.