Lawless says there is trade market for Willy

[Mark H.]

3 minutes ago, White Out said:

The fact that you do want to go back to  a qb who's 1-4 on a 7-4 team doesnt make you wrong but it does call into question your decision making. 

I'm pretty sure he's #2 on depth chart 

[17to85]

10 minutes ago, White Out said:

The fact that you do want to go back to  a qb who's 1-4 on a 7-4 team doesnt make you wrong but it does call into question your decision making. 

The team has changed as a whole since that 1-4 start. The D alone is immensely better than it was to start the season. From the DL to the LBs to the DBs they have all improved from what they were at the start of the season. That's not even getting into the ways in which the offense has improved. To try and pin this all on the qbs as I've said all along is just stupidity. Not like Nichols is currently setting the world on fire at qb. If Willy had played that game yesterday and done the exact same things you would be leading the charge to run him out of town. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

The defence is winning games, with a helping hand from special teams.  The only thing Nichols is doing well is not turning it over and there's an element of luck to that as the Riders dropped at least 3 INTs yesterday, a couple by DL who basically took the ball right out of Nichols hand.

Lost the time of possession by 5 minutes, too many two and outs, basically lost the field position battle for the first half until the middle of the 2nd, couldn't get a first down.  Our defense saved the game time and again.

The difference between us and the teams we have to beat to get to the Grey Cup is a quarterback.

[White Out]

1 minute ago, 17to85 said:

The team has changed as a whole since that 1-4 start. The D alone is immensely better than it was to start the season. From the DL to the LBs to the DBs they have all improved from what they were at the start of the season. That's not even getting into the ways in which the offense has improved. To try and pin this all on the qbs as I've said all along is just stupidity. Not like Nichols is currently setting the world on fire at qb. If Willy had played that game yesterday and done the exact same things you would be leading the charge to run him out of town. 

Who's doing that?

"  Willy did himself no favours and is absolutely as much to blame for him getting knocked around as our line.  "

Go ahead. Read what I wrote for yourself. I realize that you have your dander up but take it down a notch. If you put Willy in the Bombers scheme right now there's no reason to think he'd suddenly start reading D's better. Does improved O line play mean he won't lock on to his 1st read for way too long? Get caught like a deer in headlights under pressure?

As far as your assertion that if it was Willy in yesterday I'd be calling for him to get out of town, I don't know how I can win that argument. You're attacking a  position that not only I haven't taken,  but, also suggesting that I'd want to run a QB out of town who's winning. I think you have to try and divorce what you think I feel about Willy and what I actually feel about him. Look at MOS. I hated the guy and was sick of his stupid smirking and his relentless Willy starting. At this point I'd be in complete support of extending him. Why? My opinions are malleable; results matter. I always thought Willy and MOS both were good guys who were obviously well liked (albeit I still think Willy might be a little below average IQ compared to other CFL qbs). If Willy came back in and was winning for us, I would be thrilled. I'm ok with being wrong, and it would seem that once MOS has come to the same conclusion I did, that Nichols is a better option, he's running a very solid football team. I support him fully. It's ok to be wrong and I was about MOS. I would suggest that you (and others who think Willy should get another try) reflect on your opinions and ask yourself this "do I really think Willy is a good qb or do I just not want to be wrong?"

Dont take it personally, just food for thought.

[White Out]

4 minutes ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

The defence is winning games, with a helping hand from special teams.  The only thing Nichols is doing well is not turning it over and there's an element of luck to that as the Riders dropped at least 3 INTs yesterday, a couple by DL who basically took the ball right out of Nichols hand.

Lost the time of possession by 5 minutes, too many two and outs, basically lost the field position battle for the first half until the middle of the 2nd, couldn't get a first down.  Our defense saved the game time and again.

The difference between us and the teams we have to beat to get to the Grey Cup is a quarterback.

Disagree completley. Nichols engineered scoring drives and also had at least 5 drops yesterday from his receivers. No idea where your getting 3 dropped interceptions from. He's thrown 1 interception this season. Is that luck too? 

I've never seen a  fan base with so many people calling for the head of  a 6-0 QB with a 71% completion, 7 to 1 TD to int ratio.. It's baffling. Absolutely incredible. 

[JuranBoldenRules]

3 dropped interceptions from the 3 interceptions they dropped.  A dig to Mcduffie in the first that was way in front of him and right into the DBs lap, a pick six if he didn't drop it.  Two deflections by DL that were up for grabs and easily could have been picked.

They had two big TD drives that were mostly due to two big plays and a ton of penalties.

Why don't you want consistent good QB play?

I'm happy we can best 1-10 teams and backup QBs with our D...but I think we will need our offense to at least saw off BC and Calgary to give us a chance at winning.  Nichols and the offense as a whole need to be much much better to get this team into the Grey Cup.

[JuranBoldenRules]

Lapo needs to trust his OL and run the ball a hell of a lot more too.  Our OL is better than pretty much every DL they've faced since week 6.  We still struggle to get to 15-20 runs.

[Guest J5V]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

2014 Willy was good backup we need to keep. 2016 Willy, not so much. If Nichols goes down, our season goes with him, unless Davis plays better than expected or we keep Willy and he returns to a pre-2016 version of him.

Huh! 2014 Willy was a 5-1 QB to start the season and kept snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Then we couldn't protect him and he started getting pummeled game after game. Remember this guy ...

 

[White Out]

Just now, JuranBoldenRules said:

3 dropped interceptions from the 3 interceptions they dropped.  A dig to Mcduffie in the first that was way in front of him and right into the DBs lap, a pick six if he didn't drop it.  Two deflections by DL that were up for grabs and easily could have been picked.

They had two big TD drives that were mostly due to two big plays and a ton of penalties.

Why don't you want consistent good QB play?

I'm happy we can best 1-10 teams and backup QBs with our D...but I think we will need our offense to at least saw off BC and Calgary to give us a chance at winning.  Nichols and the offense as a whole need to be much much better to get this team into the Grey Cup.

1 interception in 6 games, 71% completion ratio, and undefeated. If that's not consistent then you simply have an agenda and don't care to hide it. 

Why can't you be happy with 6 wins in a row? Sweeping the Riders? (who by the way took Calgary to the ropes both games they played them just before us). Honest to god. It's one thing to have your team losing and hope they get spanked to effect change you think will help your team. But this may be the first time I've ever seen fans of a winning team want the wheels to fall off to effect change they want and perceive will make us "elite".

[White Out]

4 minutes ago, J5V said:

Huh! 2014 Willy was a 5-1 QB to start the season and kept snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Then we couldn't protect him and he started getting pummeled game after game. Remember this guy ...

 

He had 5 good games 2 years ago.  Honestly. So what? Let's go find Casey Printers I guess?

[TBURGESS]

5 minutes ago, J5V said:

Huh! 2014 Willy was a 5-1 QB to start the season and kept snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Then we couldn't protect him and he started getting pummeled game after game. Remember this guy ...

Maybe you need to re-read my post. I said the 2014 version of Willy is a good QB. The 2016 version, not so much.

[JuranBoldenRules]

We can't lose the time of possession badly week after week and expect to win without the defense playing out of their minds like yesterday, even against 1-10 teams.  Goal-line stands, redzone turnovers over and over.

Our offense needs to be better.  It's pretty simple.  They need to score points, they need to score touchdowns, they need to get first downs and win field position.  They are not doing that.  We are relying on our defense to dominate to keep us in games and give us a chance to win.

[Doublezero]

2 minutes ago, White Out said:

He had 5 good games 2 years ago.  Honestly. So what? Let's go find Casey Printers I guess?

The wins Willy got in 2014 were just like the wins Nichols is getting this year - they are coming due to lights out play by the D and special teams.

[White Out]

1 minute ago, JuranBoldenRules said:

We can't lose the time of possession badly week after week and expect to win without the defense playing out of their minds like yesterday, even against 1-10 teams.  Goal-line stands, redzone turnovers over and over.

Our offense needs to be better.  It's pretty simple.  They need to score points, they need to score touchdowns, they need to get first downs and win field position.  They are not doing that.  We are relying on our defense to dominate to keep us in games and give us a chance to win.

This win streak must be just a nightmare for you. Thoughts and prayers. 

[White Out]

1 minute ago, Doublezero said:

The wins Willy got in 2014 were just like the wins Nichols is getting this year - they are coming due to lights out play by the D and special teams.

2014 drew willy threw 16 interceptions to his 14 touchdowns. 

Try again. 

[Noeller]

I feel like you read the stats line after every game but you don't necessarily watch the games, or, if you do, you don't really understand what you're watching...

[White Out]

6 minutes ago, Noeller said:

I feel like you read the stats line after every game but you don't necessarily watch the games, or, if you do, you don't really understand what you're watching...

The feeling is mutual. Solid post though. 10/10 for adding new discussion points and advancing the thread with personal attacks. 

[Doublezero]

12 minutes ago, White Out said:

2014 drew willy threw 16 interceptions to his 14 touchdowns. 

Try again. 

That stat is for the entire season, I presume, and we were talking about Winnipeg's wins, which came in the first 1/3 of the season in 2014 before Bombers opponents figured out Etchevery's defence. So don't be pulling out a stat that has no direct relevance to the point of comparison under discussion. We were talking about Winnipeg's wins in 2014, not the whole season, which was a disaster. I've already pointed out elsewhere that if it wasn't for key scores by D and ST in 2014 our record would have been 3-13 with Willy at the helm. On Nichols vs Willy - I'm with you and will take Nichols over Willy any day because his reads are faster and he gets rid of the ball quicker. There are also legit questions about Willy's ability to read defences, period. But I feel that neither Willy nor Nichols have been carrying the team on their own the way Collaros or BLM can. Nichols does seem to have stepped up as a leader, has done a great job of protecting the ball, and the team has responded to the point where they believe they can win. They had clearly given up on Willy and I would favour dealing him to another team and going with Davis as backup. But I also share JBR's worry that the offence needs to step up if we are to be a real contender. Even O'shea said that after the game - another WIN! - yesterday.

[White Out]

I dont think you'll find me anywhere claim Nichols is carrying this team. Our d and special teams are driving the bus. So we agree there too. But Nichols has been far superior to Willy. 

[Doublezero]

Just now, White Out said:

I dont think you'll find me anywhere claim Nichols is carrying this team. Our d and special teams are driving the bus. So we agree there too. But Nichols has been far superior to Willy. 

Yup. He has been and its been great to witness. But is it enough? Or do we need more? That is the question that will play out over the next 7 games vs some tough opponents.

[White Out]

3 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

Yup. He has been and its been great to witness. But is it enough? Or do we need more? That is the question that will play out over the next 7 games vs some tough opponents.

We don't have a Mike Reilly or Bo Levi Mitchell. We have a game managing qb who makes very few mistakes and can  engineer drives when needed. It will have to do because that's what we have. Behind him we have a qb who's lost all confidence in his game and can't make quick decisions. And is error prone. 

I'd love to have our d give up the least yards and most take away. Heck while I'm at it let's add ray lewis circa 2000. This is the team we have and MOS and our coordinators have found a winning strategy. Let's enjoy it. 

[pigseye]

Wow, what a tough crowd,

Bruce Johnson dropped a pick 6

Foggs punt return TD 6

Medlock was off 6

That's 18 Bomber points left on the field. Despite the score, this game wasn't as close as it could have been and they still won, because Nichols and the offence played smart and within themselves.

Will this team make it to the GC and or win it, likely not but it's a helluva lot better now than when Willy was at the controls.

[pigseye]

Oh, and if you can't see the similarity between this team and the Lapo HC team of 2011 take a closer look, the turn around is no coincidence, his influence is all over it.

[Mr Dee]

I'm pretty sure Nichols is following the drawn up game plan to a 'T'. What he does best, is read, and get rid of the ball quickly, often with good results. If Willy, in the past, was able to do that, Nichols would still be on the bench. We don't know if Willy would play better now. I suspect he would. He needed this break, physically and mentally.

I agree that Nichols is playing it close to the vest, in regards to turnovers. You open it up more, you become susceptible to more picks. I've seen the dropped 'potential' interceptions. They happen to all QBs throughout the league. They are not regular enough to be a constant concern. I do not count balls knocked down or deflected at the line of scrimmage balls to be potential interceptions. These blocks also happen all the time to any one of the 'elite' QBs. It's few and far between when they are actually intercepted. I'm not going to knock Nichols for those.

Bombers are currently 5 th in T.O.P. They were, for the longest time in the top 3 in that stat. Undoubtedly, we must be better in the offensive category, and it starts with Nichols. Actually, it starts with LaPo. He puts together what we must do against the teams we play with who we have, usually with different receivers every game. 

It's unfortunate we haven't got a Derel Walker, or a Bowman or a Roosevelt, an Arceneaux etc. Guys who dominate and can change a game with any one play. Missing a guy like that limits what a guy like Nichols can do. He is only as good as the players and game plan he has to work with.

But, a guy like Nichols and a defence that we've been presented with, mixed in with solid STs has given us a 6 game game winning streak. I don't care who we have played. We beat them and were not part of any of their winning streaks.

Future games against future opponents have to be dealt with as they arise..

[Atomic]

Just now, pigseye said:

Oh, and if you can't see the similarity between this team and the Lapo HC team of 2011 take a closer look, the turn around is no coincidence, his influence is all over it.

Very true... that team was winning with great defence and an offence that was unspectacular but didn't turn the ball over.  Inevitably that offence started turning the ball over more and the wins were harder to come by.  The test of this team will be if Nichols can keep playing turnover-free football and whether the defence and special teams can bail him out if he slips a little bit.