Willy vs Nichols After 5 Games

[wbbfan]

*point of this thread isnt a flame war*

Both guys have played give or take a quarter 5 games now. Thought itd be interesting to compare the stats. 

Drew willy

137/191  71.7% 1473 yards 7.7 yards per pass 5 tds 4 ints. sacked 16 times.

andrew Harris

206 yards 53 carries 3.88 YPC. 283 yards on 30 catches 9.43 per catch

Matt nichols

126/177 71.1% 1448 yards 8.2 yards per pass 7 tds 1 int. 10 sacks. (3 in the last 3 games)

adrew Harris

449 yards 90 carries 4.98 ypc. 85 yards on 11 catches 7.72 per catch.

 

 The obvious large differences are willys lower tds, more picks, and greater number of sacks. Also the contrast between harris running vs catching. I think a good bit of the harris difference is OL, and play calling change. When you cant run, tossing it to the RB is just as high percentage while putting the rb in a better spot to make a play. 

 Of course willy had the worse of the OL, and nichols hasnt had the compliment of wrs. 

Combined numbers 263/368 71.4% 2,921 12 tds 5 picks 26 sacks.  Yards would be 3rd while passing tds would be tied for 4th. I would bet the number of sacks would be still very high. The trend and play of the ol with bond/hardrick + foketi has been very good though. I would expect one of if not the best pass protections in the last 3 games. Before that we had a lot of hits on the qb out side sacks and qb rushes. Lots of yards per game, but as we all have seen, too many FGs not enough tds. Hope fully we continue to get healthy and show an improvement in play calling. 

 

[Rich]

You left out the most important stat:  1 - 4 and 5 - 0.

I've been as critical of the offence as any but lets not pretend the majority of Willy's numbers didn't come in garbage time when the game was well out of hand and defences were playing prevent, giving the short stuff to kill the clock.

Yes, Nichols has benefitted from a better O-Line and a D that is playing lights out and a turnover machine.  But Willy was not playing well and looked lost back there.  That is not going to change until he gets a chance to play and prove different.

And I'm fine if he doesn't play again this season, because it means we are continuing what we've been doing the last 5 games.

[Taynted_Fayth]

Id personally run with any qb that can extend and preferably finish drives. Right now I have more confidence in nichols but he needs to startputting up 6s, 7 fgs in a game is redonkulous

[B-F-F-C]

Nicholls play makes the o-line look better.   He gets rid of the ball quicker and extends plays with his smarts and poise.   Willy gets happy feet too quickly and the play collapses.   

[yogi]

If we continue to struggle to score anything but field goals, wonder if we see Willy get a series here or there to change the tempo up and throw off the D. 

[B-F-F-C]

16 minutes ago, yogi said:

If we continue to struggle to score anything but field goals, wonder if we see Willy get a series here or there to change the tempo up and throw off the D. 

You mean throw to the  D  

[17to85]

30 minutes ago, B-F-F-C said:

Nicholls play makes the o-line look better.   He gets rid of the ball quicker and extends plays with his smarts and poise.   Willy gets happy feet too quickly and the play collapses.   

Or how about the OL just looks flat out better? Harris numbers alone back that up. No rin game what so ever means a defense can tee off on the qb but when the run game is a concern they have to account for it

[Nolby]

My only knock on Nichols is I'd like to see him with a few more tds in the bank than what he's got right now,other than that I have no issues at all with his play. The guy has resurrected our season and ain't giving up the keys to the#1 spot any time soon.

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, yogi said:

If we continue to struggle to score anything but field goals, wonder if we see Willy get a series here or there to change the tempo up and throw off the D. 

It took O'Shea over two years to finally pull Willy from a game to change things up, he would need another two years to think about trying it again.

[Noeller]

Curious to know how many of these "Here's why I like Willy", "Here's Why I Like Nichols" threads we actually have going right now....there's gotta be at least a half dozen in existence someplace here...

[Arnold_Palmer]

11 hours ago, Nolby said:

My only knock on Nichols is I'd like to see him with a few more tds in the bank than what he's got right now,other than that I have no issues at all with his play. The guy has resurrected our season and ain't giving up the keys to the#1 spot any time soon.

Sheppard dropped a beautiful pass in the endzone by Nichols, Dressler while not a great throw usually comes up with that catch in the end zone as well. Nichols has been taking care of the football, and coming up big when we need it. You're right, I don't think we'll be seeing Willy any time soon. Not spectacular but like it or not Nichols has played a huge role in our five game winning streak.

[wbbfan]

12 hours ago, Rich said:

You left out the most important stat:  1 - 4 and 5 - 0.

I've been as critical of the offence as any but lets not pretend the majority of Willy's numbers didn't come in garbage time when the game was well out of hand and defences were playing prevent, giving the short stuff to kill the clock.

Yes, Nichols has benefitted from a better O-Line and a D that is playing lights out and a turnover machine.  But Willy was not playing well and looked lost back there.  That is not going to change until he gets a chance to play and prove different.

And I'm fine if he doesn't play again this season, because it means we are continuing what we've been doing the last 5 games.

qbs arent pitchers. The team is 5-0 in the last 5. 

12 hours ago, B-F-F-C said:

Nicholls play makes the o-line look better.   He gets rid of the ball quicker and extends plays with his smarts and poise.   Willy gets happy feet too quickly and the play collapses.   

his release isnt any quicker and they both threw mostly short passes. he was out right shaky at first in the LDC, but did find strong poise after that. Willy did have choppy foot work, but the play collapsing on short yardage passes isnt the qb. 

 

19 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Curious to know how many of these "Here's why I like Willy", "Here's Why I Like Nichols" threads we actually have going right now....there's gotta be at least a half dozen in existence someplace here...

It isnt supposed to be about team willy or team nichols. Its amazing how close there stats are in equal time, despite a dynamic difference in team performance. 

[Doublezero]

Willy's biggest problem in the first 5 games - they were numerous but consistent with prior inadequacies - was that his team-mates lost confidence in his abilities and therefore to lead and to win. That was obvious. And it was the main reason things turned around with Nichols in there, he gave the whole team a spark and helped them come around to the belief they could win. So if you look at the difference between games 1-5 and 5-10 in the context of Willy vs Nichols then that is it right there.

[The Unknown Poster]

Wouldnt surprise me to see Willy get in a game here shortly. 

[bearpants]

33 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

Sheppard dropped a beautiful pass in the endzone by Nichols, Dressler while not a great throw usually comes up with that catch in the end zone as well. Nichols has been taking care of the football, and coming up big when we need it. You're right, I don't think we'll be seeing Willy any time soon. Not spectacular but like it or not Nichols has played a huge role in our five game winning streak.

Somebody screwed up on that play... but don't know who... Dress was thinking corner and Nichols was throwing middle... one of them was correct... and I'm glad we'll never know who... good players/teams never do any public finger pointing... 

[trueBlue83]

I was kind of hoping the Bombers would build up a nice lead and we might get to see Willy play a quarter on Sunday... but that obviously didn't happen! Kinda hope that can be the case Saturday.... the D and O-Line are playing night and day versus when Willy was starting, so it would be nice to see what Willy do (albeit, would again be garbage time) if anything just to give him some confidence back.... or, to tell the boys upstairs that maybe it's time to work Davis into the 2B slot and eventually take over as backup!

[Atomic]

19 minutes ago, Doublezero said:

Willy's biggest problem in the first 5 games - they were numerous but consistent with prior inadequacies - was that his team-mates lost confidence in his abilities and therefore to lead and to win. That was obvious. And it was the main reason things turned around with Nichols in there, he gave the whole team a spark and helped them come around to the belief they could win. So if you look at the difference between games 1-5 and 5-10 in the context of Willy vs Nichols then that is it right there.

That's a little too "fluffy" for me.  Ability to lead and win, confidence, spark, belief..... smells like something a newspaper reporter would write.  Willy had issues but I don't think it had anything to do with those nebulous concepts.

[Mike]

If you had to ask me for an offensive MVP at this point in the season, I don't hesitate for very long before I say Travis Bond.

[17to85]

Confidence is key though and sometimes you do need a spark from a benching as significant as your starting qb.... that being said I don't believe Nichols is doing anything right now that Willy isn't capable of. Willy won when his D forced 6 turnovers too. The D has improved since the start of the season, the OL has improved, the run game has improved. There is a lot going on now that wasn't happening when Willy was in there independent of what Willy was doing. Yeah he had issues with his confidence but the team collectively has improved since he was sat down. You gotta try pretty hard to lose when your D is winning the turn over battle as lopsidedly as the Bombers have been this past stretch. 

[trueBlue83]

You could tell Willy was rattled, and maybe the injuries sustained in the last couple years, and numerous hits (wasn't he the most hit QB in the league the last 2 years when he was playing?)... he did have happy feet, and he wasn't going through his reads, forcing balls in to tight spots he shouldn't have been.... maybe after 5 games on the sidelines, and getting to watch a ton more film with a different perspective, will help him look at things a little differently.  We'll never know where he's at mentally though unless he gets back in playing in somewhat meaningful game time.

[17to85]

5 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

You could tell Willy was rattled, and maybe the injuries sustained in the last couple years, and numerous hits (wasn't he the most hit QB in the league the last 2 years when he was playing?)... he did have happy feet, and he wasn't going through his reads, forcing balls in to tight spots he shouldn't have been.... maybe after 5 games on the sidelines, and getting to watch a ton more film with a different perspective, will help him look at things a little differently.  We'll never know where he's at mentally though unless he gets back in playing in somewhat meaningful game time.

And I do believe that he will look like a different player if he gets back in, but I don't see how he gets back in unless Nichols all of a sudden starts turning the ball over a lot or gets hurt but the OL is keeping the qbs a lot cleaner so he's not as likely to get hurt. 

[Noeller]

If anyone gets the opportunity to read Doug Brown's piece in the FP today, it says, "Drew Willy Never Played For This Team".......and breaks down all the differences in the first 5 vs the last 5

[Fatty Liver]

11 minutes ago, trueBlue83 said:

You could tell Willy was rattled, and maybe the injuries sustained in the last couple years, and numerous hits (wasn't he the most hit QB in the league the last 2 years when he was playing?)... he did have happy feet, and he wasn't going through his reads, forcing balls in to tight spots he shouldn't have been.... maybe after 5 games on the sidelines, and getting to watch a ton more film with a different perspective, will help him look at things a little differently.  We'll never know where he's at mentally though unless he gets back in playing in somewhat meaningful game time.

Who knows, maybe Willy is one of these people that can't perform well under pressure with somebody looking over their shoulder waiting to take their job.  It certainly would rattle the confidence of most people.  The starting job was basically his until it wasn't, perhaps it was conveyed to him clearly prior to the season that Nichols would take over if he couldn't produce W's.   Before Nichols showed up he only had to worry about beating out the likes of Brohm and Marve.

[Super Duper Negatron]

It seems like strange coincidence to me that the o-line (sacks and running game) suddenly got THAT much better the second Nichols took over. I get that we have Bond in for Paddy McInjuryFace, but I don't see Nichols panic as much under pressure as Willy seemed to. And as much as the run opens up the pass, it goes both ways.

Oddly, the things we were hopeful for (better long ball accuracy) and worried about (more picks) haven't really materialized under Nichols. He seems to be operating the same ball control, short passing offense that Willy was, but doing it just a bit better.

 

[17to85]

18 minutes ago, Super Duper Negatron said:

It seems like strange coincidence to me that the o-line (sacks and running game) suddenly got THAT much better the second Nichols took over. I get that we have Bond in for Paddy McInjuryFace, but I don't see Nichols panic as much under pressure as Willy seemed to. And as much as the run opens up the pass, it goes both ways.

 

but it's two upgrades out of 5 positions on the offensive line. Bond is better at LG than Hardrick and whichever one of Hardrick or Foketi plays RT is way better than Neufeld was. So you straight across improve 2 positions and not only that, you don't have the young NIs isolated like they were. Goosen has big bad Bond next to him now and makes his job easier, Chungh has a better right tackle next to him rather than a liability. You strength the entire line making those two choices and the results speak for themselves. 

Nichols and Bond came in at the same time and the difference in the OL play was night and day. Nichols gave things a spark to be sure and he wasn't dealing with the mental issues Willy had but the single biggest difference is the improved play of the offensive line. 

The defense got a hell of a lot better from those first couple weeks of the season as well and that really didn't have much to do with the offense. The D sucked ass against Montreal and in Calgary weeks one and two and then slowly improved. They had a big turn over night against Hamilton and they won the game, they played real well against Edmonton in a losing effort and then the changes happened to the offense and boom, 5 game win streak.