Bombers Trade Willy for DB TJ Heath, Acquire Kevin Glenn

[wbbfan]

29 minutes ago, Brandon said:

As much as the guy is a good coach... he as well as Barker decided to keep broken down Ray over Collaros and Harris...  They do not have a good track record of picking the right QB to lead the team....

Toronto is a win now market. They are a team with out a ton of cap space, they would have had to let ricky ray go to keep one of those guys. Do you think they can hold that team together with half a season of collaros at best, or harris? Harris has looked like a shade of his early season self since coming back from injury too. 

teams often choose the vet qb over the young guy in the cfl. Its job security and the fear of losing a sure thing at qb for a guy whose flashes may not be the real deal. Dont forget how people felt about willy not soo long ago here. Or a laundry list of young qbs who had a flash but where all sizzle and no steak. Would you want to bet your job on the young guy? I dont blame them for holding on to ray for dear life. Kilgore and masoli before they played us too. Hank and DD behind jeff garcia. Casey printers getting yanked for DD.  etc. 

[iso_55]

On 9/12/2016 at 8:01 PM, 17to85 said:

No one is complaining about the trade, everyone is unanimous that it was a great deal by Walters, what some people are arguing against is the smear campaign that has been going on against Drew Willy since game one. 

Smear campaign against Willy? You mean there's no smear campaign going on by some fans here that say they'd rather have a half blind dog on 3 legs play qb than Kevin Glenn?

Edited September 16, 2016 by iso_55

[James]

I think Willy is really going to fulfill that potential we all saw in him early on in Toronto. They are a legit organization and coaching staff and he has Ricky Frikin Ray to learn from. I'm not saying we will regret this later on... because I just don't think he would succeed here... but he's going to be super good there IMO

[Stickem]

We saw potential in him in Toronto?...thought he played here...lol...Willy looked like junk from training camp right on down...He did himself no favours in the Peg...Was there a definite attempt to derail the mans football career.....Well certainly and we'd have everything to gain by doing that...C'mon guys drop the 'agenda baloney, concerning Willy's career here...He simply was not cutting it ...Sure there are various reasons but the biggest and most undeniable one is that he was not performing as a No. 1 qb. in this league...and getting paid as one...End of story for Drew Willy in Winnipeg.

[mbrg]

21 minutes ago, James said:

I think Willy is really going to fulfill that potential we all saw in him early on in Toronto. They are a legit organization and coaching staff and he has Ricky Frikin Ray to learn from. I'm not saying we will regret this later on... because I just don't think he would succeed here... but he's going to be super good there IMO

Possibly.

Brass tacks is simply that Willy's contract made it almost certain that he'd be released in the offseason.  The only way that wasn't going to happen was if Willy got back in this season and lit it up.  And the only way that happens is if Nichols starts sucking eggs or gets injured.

By getting Glenn for depth, the hole Willy's loss creates is already filled, so Willy to Toronto became the right trade.

There's a few reasons I suspect Willy can rediscover his mojo in TO, but even if it happens that won't make this not a good trade, because it wasn't going to happen here.

[wbbfan]

41 minutes ago, James said:

I think Willy is really going to fulfill that potential we all saw in him early on in Toronto. They are a legit organization and coaching staff and he has Ricky Frikin Ray to learn from. I'm not saying we will regret this later on... because I just don't think he would succeed here... but he's going to be super good there IMO

Im sure we will see a flash of it at least. Idk if that OL and his previous injuries will combine for longevity though.

[Arnold_Palmer]

38 minutes ago, James said:

I think Willy is really going to fulfill that potential we all saw in him early on in Toronto. They are a legit organization and coaching staff and he has Ricky Frikin Ray to learn from. I'm not saying we will regret this later on... because I just don't think he would succeed here... but he's going to be super good there IMO

We'll see. I certainly like Drew Willy. I hope he has a successful career. His biggest problem in Winnipeg was mentally. He was hearing foot steps when they weren't there. He didn't have this problem in 2014, you saw it when he came back from injury in 2015. I'm wondering if this something you can ever come back from. Pocket awareness is a big part of the QB play, hopefully Toronto can protect Drew enough so that he can get over that but it was an alarming sight to see in Winnipeg this year.

[17to85]

28 minutes ago, Arnold_Palmer said:

We'll see. I certainly like Drew Willy. I hope he has a successful career. His biggest problem in Winnipeg was mentally. He was hearing foot steps when they weren't there. He didn't have this problem in 2014, you saw it when he came back from injury in 2015. I'm wondering if this something you can ever come back from. Pocket awareness is a big part of the QB play, hopefully Toronto can protect Drew enough so that he can get over that but it was an alarming sight to see in Winnipeg this year.

Of course you can come back from it. Confidence might be hard to rebuild but it can be done. 

[Mark F]

38 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Im sure we will see a flash of it at least. Idk if that OL and his previous injuries will combine for longevity though.

Ray got the living daylights beaten out of him last game against Hamilton.  If Drew plays and gets the same beating he got here, the result will probably be similar.

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Mark F

[Judd]

Willy is a reclamation project. I doubt he will ever reach superstardom, but if there's anywhere he could thrive, it's Toronto. He's thrown for 300+ a bunch of times, USED to have a good touch on a deep ball, and has seen lots of CFL defences by now. He beats a raw prospect, no doubt.

I see Willy having a long, capable Kevin Glenn-ish type career, in all honesty. But you know what, I don't want Kevin Glenn-ish anymore. We're tired of that. I want the next goddamn superstar qb. Yeah, we've hitched our wagon to Nichols, and I'd sell my soul for a one-off grey cup with him, (I'm 25 so I've never witnessed a championship) but fingers crossed Bryan Bennett (or whoever) is our long term ace. I'm so desperate, guys. So desperate 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Judd

[LimJahey]

1 minute ago, Judd said:

Willy is a reclamation project. I doubt he will ever reach superstardom, but if there's anywhere he could thrive, it's Toronto. He's thrown for 300+ a bunch of times, USED to have a good touch on a deep ball, and has seen lots of CFL defences by now.

I see Willy having a long, capable Kevin Glenn-ish type career, in all honesty. But you know what, I don't want Kevin Glenn-ish anymore. We're tired of that. I want the next goddamn superstar qb. Yeah, we've hitched our wagon to Nichols, and I'd sell my soul for a one-off grey cup with him, (I'm 25 so I've never witnessed a championship) but fingers crossed Bryan Bennett (or whoever) is our long term ace. I'm so desperate, guys. So desperate 

Willy and Kevin Glenn are nothing alike, Willy is 29 years old so there's no way in any world he will ever throw for anywhere close to 40,000 yards.

[Judd]

Just now, LimJahey said:

Willy and Kevin Glenn are nothing alike, Willy is 29 years old so there's no way in any world he will ever throw for anywhere close to 40,000 yards.

 

Just now, LimJahey said:

Willy and Kevin Glenn are nothing alike, Willy is 29 years old so there's no way in any world he will ever throw for anywhere close to 40,000 yards.

Obviously. But in ability. Mediocrity.

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, LimJahey said:

Willy and Kevin Glenn are nothing alike, Willy is 29 years old so there's no way in any world he will ever throw for anywhere close to 40,000 yards.

But as players I don't think they're all that dissimilar. Obviously Glenn got starts consistently earlier in his career than Willy did, with some better teams but the way they play the game not so different. 

[LimJahey]

Just now, Judd said:

 

Obviously. But in ability. Mediocrity.

Kevin Glenn lead us to a Grey Cup and was almost always near the league leaders, wasn't until the end where the interceptions started happening.

[LimJahey]

4 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

But as players I don't think they're all that dissimilar. Obviously Glenn got starts consistently earlier in his career than Willy did, with some better teams but the way they play the game not so different. 

Willy can't throw the ball past 10 yards, Kevin consistently threw the deep ball.

[17to85]

2 minutes ago, LimJahey said:

Willy can't throw the ball past 10 yards, Kevin consistently threw the deep ball.

No even in 2007 when he was damned close to the MVP the knock on Glenn was his inconsistency in the deep ball. I think you are remembering later career Glenn more so than early career Glenn. The two are very similar players. 

[Atomic]

We don't need a superstar QB.  Give me a guy who can put up mediocre stats and win games, like Nichols.  That way we can justify giving him a low-ball contract and beef up the rest of the team with the savings.

I am the walrus.

[Fatty Liver]

46 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Of course you can come back from it. Confidence might be hard to rebuild but it can be done. 

Unfortunately Bomber fans wouldn't have the patience for that experiment to occur.  First sign of struggles and the boos would reign down, especially now that Nichols has proven that a QB can be successful with this offence.  Best for all that they've moved on.

[Arnold_Palmer]

47 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Of course you can come back from it. Confidence might be hard to rebuild but it can be done. 

I'm not sure its confidence. I think its psychological. Hearing foot steps when they aren't there. There was a lot of plays earlier this season where willy 

1) Rushed the throw before the pressure

2) didn't properly plant his feet on the deep throw due to "pressure" (remember how effective he was in 2014 on the deep throw)

3) Not properly stepping into the pocket on passing attempts to buy more time

[LimJahey]

3 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

Unfortunately Bomber fans wouldn't have the patience for that experiment to occur.  First sign of struggles and the boos would reign down, especially now that Nichols has proven that a QB can be successful with this offence.  Best for all that they've moved on.

Why do we have to continually wait? by the time Willy figures it out we're 2-8 and in last place. Give me a guy who can win a couple games any day.

[Arnold_Palmer]

Kevin Glenn is STILL in this league because he has the quickest release in the CFL. He avoids a lot of contact.

[Tracker]

39 minutes ago, Judd said:

Willy is a reclamation project. I doubt he will ever reach superstardom, but if there's anywhere he could thrive, it's Toronto. He's thrown for 300+ a bunch of times, USED to have a good touch on a deep ball, and has seen lots of CFL defences by now. He beats a raw prospect, no doubt.

I see Willy having a long, capable Kevin Glenn-ish type career, in all honesty. But you know what, I don't want Kevin Glenn-ish anymore. We're tired of that. I want the next goddamn superstar qb. Yeah, we've hitched our wagon to Nichols, and I'd sell my soul for a one-off grey cup with him, (I'm 25 so I've never witnessed a championship) but fingers crossed Bryan Bennett (or whoever) is our long term ace. I'm so desperate, guys. So desperate 

I empathize with you. We have had so many mediocre QBs through here since Khari Jones that I have become almost resigned to it. It would be great to have a top-three or four quarterback locked in for 3-5 years to give the team a chance to find and groom a successor.

Edited September 16, 2016 by tracker

[Nash00]

2 minutes ago, tracker said:

I empathize with you. We have had so many mediocre QBs through here since Khari Jones that I have become almost resigned to it. It would be great to have a top-three or four quarterback locked in for 3-5 years to give the team a chance to find and groom a successor.

We are one of the few teams to be able to find and develop a true star calibre QB in recent years.

BC - Lulay, Jennings(?) - Lulay's reign was short lived but he had a few great years and a GC ring
Calgary - Mitchell - they haven't been hurting at QB since the days of Kevin Feterik
Edmonton - Reilly - Maybe credit for him can go to BC but he only really hit his stride once he signed in Edmonton.
Sask - Durant - solid QB with GC ring
Toronto - Collaros, Harris - Only reason one of these guys isn't in Toronto is they had great stability at the position which allowed them time to develop
Hamilton - one of the only ones with a similar issue at QB development as we do but with the luxury of having one of the best at the position playing for them currently.
Montreal - surprising how they had no one really develop behind Calvillo despite having Milanovich there for many years.
Ottawa- only in year 3 so not really a whole lot of precedent here but maybe Jensen in a few years?

We are the only team in the league with consistent turnover at the position since Glenn left. Someone should start a QB jersey similar to the one that the Browns have, I imagine it would look very similar.

[Judd]

10 minutes ago, Nash00 said:

We are one of the few teams to be able to find and develop a true star calibre QB in recent years.
We are the only team in the league with consistent turnover at the position since Glenn left. Someone should start a QB jersey similar to the one that the Browns have, I imagine it would look very similar.

I have NO problem with NOT "developing" our own qb. Many of the starters in the league started off somewhere else and gained an opportunity when they've proven themselves. But my god it's getting ridiculous already. If Nichols doesn't bring us to the promised land this year I see no way he could in the future. This defence isn't going to last years and field-goaling everyone to death isn't a recipe for success. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Judd

[LimJahey]

4 minutes ago, Judd said:

I have NO problem with NOT "developing" our own qb. Many of the starters in the league started off somewhere else and gained an opportunity when they've proven themselves. But my god it's getting ridiculous already. If Nichols doesn't bring us to the promised land this year I see no way he could in the future. This defence isn't going to last years. 

Difference with the current regime and past regimes is coaching and GM, those guys aren't going anywhere and will likely continue their recent success.