Miller starting contract extension talks with Walters O'Shea

[Rich]

I'm okay with O'Shea at 3 years, as that is a pretty "standard" extension.  You've had 3 years to evaluate what he is.  If you (as in the club) are happy with him, believe he is your guy, then you make the commitment.   If you don't believe he is that guy, then walk away.

Walters for 5 seems a bit too much, especially given that he is already under contract next year, so you are really committing to him for the next 6 years.

I'd rather that extension wait until mid season next year when we've had a chance to see if this team is for real or if this season has been a bit a blip.

[Floyd]

For every bright spot, there's a Kuale and a Hurl.

Winning record is pretty much from Willy getting benched, Macho getting hurt and Medlock's streak. 

Regardless, Osh isn't going anywhere - Miller and Walters will get him on a three year deal...  then the same next year for Walters.

[Rich]

Here is an interesting stat, if O'Shea gets extended, he will be our longest serving head coach since Dave Ritchie, who made it part way into his 5th season (fired in 2004).  That is 10 years of instability of the head coaching position.

Ritchie - Fired in his 5th year

Doug Berry - 3 years

Paul LaPolice - Fired in his 3rd year

Tim Burke - 1 full season as Head Coach, part season as interim when LaPolice was fired 

Jim Daley - 1 full season as Head Coach, part season as interim when Ritchie was fired

Mike Kelly - 1 year

 

[Floyd]

12 minutes ago, Rich said:

Here is an interesting stat, if O'Shea gets extended, he will be our longest serving head coach since Dave Ritchie, who made it part way into his 5th season (fired in 2004).  That is 10 years of instability of the head coaching position.

Ritchie - Fired in his 5th year

Doug Berry - 3 years

Paul LaPolice - Fired in his 3rd year

Tim Burke - 1 full season as Head Coach, part season as interim when LaPolice was fired 

Jim Daley - 1 full season as Head Coach, part season as interim when Ritchie was fired

Mike Kelly - 1 year

 

Crazy that Richie only lasted five years...

[bigg jay]

Given the learning curve Osh was going to have as a rookie HC, I'm not going to fully count his 1st two seasons against him.  I've seen enough progression from him since his 1st year that I'm on-board with a 3 year deal.   The team is heading in the right direction & players are choosing to come here when they have other options (see Gurley) so let's keep that going!

Based on the same reasoning, we should do the same with Walters... question is how long?  3-4 is perfectly fine with me.  5 years might be a bit much but then again he could have bailed on us for the AD job at Guelph but he was committed to this team.  We could do the same for him.

[JCon]

52 minutes ago, Floyd said:

For every bright spot, there's a Kuale and a Hurl.

Winning record is pretty much from Willy getting benched, Macho getting hurt and Medlock's streak. 

Regardless, Osh isn't going anywhere - Miller and Walters will get him on a three year deal...  then the same next year for Walters.

It's amazing they find the stadium each day with that type of blind luck.

 

They traded for Nicholls. They drafted Loffler. And they signed Medlock.

 

[Floyd]

16 minutes ago, JCon said:

It's amazing they find the stadium each day with that type of blind luck.

 

They traded for Nicholls. They drafted Loffler. And they signed Medlock.

 

And thats why they get contract extensions.  Just not ridiculous ones.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Floyd said:

Crazy that Richie only lasted five years...

Lyle Bauer didn't hire him and Lyle Bauer didn't like him because they were both trying to be the boss. First excuse he got Bauer turfed Ritchie and the rest is history. 

[Mr Dee]

12 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Lyle Bauer didn't hire him and Lyle Bauer didn't like him because they were both trying to be the boss. First excuse he got Bauer turfed Ritchie and the rest is history. 

And our decline as a strong football franchise can be traced from that moment onwards.

[Arnold_Palmer]

It's funny how short sighted some people can be..

Yes its one winning season in three years. Yes O'shea and even Walters were on the hot seat coming into this season.
This is year three of the regime. Keep in mind when Walters took over Max Hall was our starting QB, Kohlert was our best Canadian player (and we had zero canadian depth) we had a terrible offensive line, and miles away from being a competitive team.

Fast forward three years later.. We've built through the draft, our Canadian content is much improved. Our team depth is deeper then i've ever seen it. Including the early 2000's days. Sure the top end talent was higher, but it's been evident this season whenever someone goes down, someone steps up and makes plays. I think Walters has earned his contract extension. This is year three, and finally his total "vision" for the team. With coach O'shea he's always been a well respected coach, but being respected doesn't win football games. I've noticed down the stretch this season with the trick plays at the right time, the proper use of challenges, i've seen him grow into a good football coach. 

If O'shea and Walters inherited a good football club and we saw the record dip from year one to years two and three I wouldn't extend.

But O'shea and Walters inherited an organization that was a complete mess top to bottom and they're finally changing that culture here.

[Blueandgold]

13 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

And our decline as a strong football franchise can be traced from that moment onwards.

I loved Richie but this is kind of revisionist history. He refused to play rookies and the team was regressing every single year, the real issue is who we replaced him with

As for the extensions, three year extensions seem fair for Walters and O'Shea. Anything more is way too much given the unpredictable nature of the CFL. Look at our roster, how many players do we still have from four or five years ago? 

[Atomic]

1 minute ago, Blueandgold said:

I loved Richie but this is kind of revisionist history. He refused to play rookies and the team was regressing every single year, the real issue is who we replaced him with

As for the extensions, three year extensions seem fair for Walters and O'Shea. Anything more is way too much given the unpredictable nature of the CFL. Look at our roster, how many players do we still have from four or five years ago? 

2- Jake Thomas and Rory Kohlert

[Nash00]

1 hour ago, Blueandgold said:

I loved Richie but this is kind of revisionist history. He refused to play rookies and the team was regressing every single year, the real issue is who we replaced him with

As for the extensions, three year extensions seem fair for Walters and O'Shea. Anything more is way too much given the unpredictable nature of the CFL. Look at our roster, how many players do we still have from four or five years ago? 

Turnover on CFL rosters is normal, but this type of total rebuild is uncommon - and can be attributed to consistent turnover in the front office.

[17to85]

1 hour ago, Blueandgold said:

I loved Richie but this is kind of revisionist history. He refused to play rookies and the team was regressing every single year, the real issue is who we replaced him with

but a lot of that was him knowing he was one slip up away from getting turfed. His veterans were his life preserver and he clutched onto them. Let's not try and kid ourselves here, Dave Ritchie would not have allowed the team to struggle like it did under Daley

[Guest J5V]

8 hours ago, Mike said:

What had he done to earn three years when he was first hired? Three years isn't typically a reward, it's a standard.

He was Kyle Walters' buddy? Other than that, I have no idea. I have always thought it was a strange hiring. STs coordinators rarely if ever get hired as Head Coaches, especially without being mentored for a number of years by a Head Coach. We're into year three with O'Shea and he certainly has a much more talented group of players now than when he started thanks to Walters. But even after three years, he still makes questionable decisions, the team still doesn't play 60 minutes of football, still appears to start slowly, takes too many penalties, etc. Things that he should have corrected by now. I can't help but wonder how good this team would be with, say, a guy like Dave Dickenson, at the controls. I think Walters has shown his worth by the body of work he has produced. He may now be one of the top GMs in the league. I have a tough time believing O'Shea is one of the top Head Coaches in the league. He might be better than he was when he started but that isn't saying much considering how green and raw he was. Walters has already been doing this job in some capacity for 6 years now.

[SpeedFlex27]

O'Shea body of work this season has merited a new contract. He has a winning record & his team made the playoffs. I think he deserves a 3 year deal but not more.

Edited October 20, 2016 by SpeedFlex27

[Noeller]

34 minutes ago, J5V said:

He was Kyle Walters' buddy? Other than that, I have no idea. I have always thought it was a strange hiring. STs coordinators rarely if ever get hired as Head Coaches, especially without being mentored for a number of years by a Head Coach. We're into year three with O'Shea and he certainly has a much more talented group of players now than when he started thanks to Walters. But even after three years, he still makes questionable decisions, the team still doesn't play 60 minutes of football, still appears to start slowly, takes too many penalties, etc. Things that he should have corrected by now. I can't help but wonder how good this team would be with, say, a guy like Dave Dickenson, at the controls. I think Walters has shown his worth by the body of work he has produced. He may now be one of the top GMs in the league. I have a tough time believing O'Shea is one of the top Head Coaches in the league. He might be better than he was when he started but that isn't saying much considering how green and raw he was. Walters has already been doing this job in some capacity for 6 years now.

Funny, I can't help but wonder what MOS would be able to do if he inherited a championship calibre team with depth at every position on the roster.....

[Mr Dee]

37 minutes ago, J5V said:

I can't help but wonder how good this team would be with, say, a guy like Dave Dickenson, at the controls.

Ah, the old switcheroo as a means of comparison. Well, why don't we look at that? How good would Mr Dickenson be on the sidelines of the Blue Bombers without a BLM at QB? But Drew Willy instead? I don't know if I even have to go further than that.

 And no John Hufnagel to bend an ear? 

Yes, do tell me how the full impact of a completely different lineup would have not have perplexed Mr. Dickenson. 

Obviously, Dickenson has a great CFL thinking mind, but if you don't think he hasn't benefited from the inheritance of an already solid lineup, them you're kidding yourself.

But I have a feeling you might have a different rating of Dickenson without his current lineup...

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, Blueandgold said:

I loved Richie but this is kind of revisionist history. He refused to play rookies and the team was regressing every single year, the real issue is who we replaced him with

As for the extensions, three year extensions seem fair for Walters and O'Shea. Anything more is way too much given the unpredictable nature of the CFL. Look at our roster, how many players do we still have from four or five years ago? 

I loved Dave Richie for his crusty bluntness but as he aged, he fell into the trap of identifying with his older players probably due to discomfort with his own aging. Given time, he might have worked through it, but the axe fell.

[Jpan85]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

He was Kyle Walters' buddy? Other than that, I have no idea. I have always thought it was a strange hiring. STs coordinators rarely if ever get hired as Head Coaches, especially without being mentored for a number of years by a Head Coach. We're into year three with O'Shea and he certainly has a much more talented group of players now than when he started thanks to Walters. But even after three years, he still makes questionable decisions, the team still doesn't play 60 minutes of football, still appears to start slowly, takes too many penalties, etc. Things that he should have corrected by now. I can't help but wonder how good this team would be with, say, a guy like Dave Dickenson, at the controls. I think Walters has shown his worth by the body of work he has produced. He may now be one of the top GMs in the league. I have a tough time believing O'Shea is one of the top Head Coaches in the league. He might be better than he was when he started but that isn't saying much considering how green and raw he was. Walters has already been doing this job in some capacity for 6 years now.

Montreal wanted to interview him for HC the year before we did but O'Shea wanted another year under his belt and . Not just Walters saw a good HC in him. If he wins one more game he would have the most wins in a season since Ritchie win 2and he matches the 2002 teams. What more do you want 18-0?

[Guest J5V]

23 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

I certainly can't talk for Mike but I will say that the steps Mike O'Shea has taken, with the blessing of Miller and Walters, in valuing character in the dressing room has helped the change of the how Winnipeg is perceived throughout the league. .We are now a go to place And a lot of that is the reputation of Mike O'Shea as the Head Coach. I don't know how much value you can attach to that but I think it's enormous.

Mike O'Shea, in his own words, when asked, has said that he doesn't try to emulate any Coach, but he has taken the words of the wise to heart. He's said that he doesn't try to be someone he isn't. He's says he's honest and wants to come across as authentic. The players see this and respond accordingly.

Again, how much value does that bring?

If you've listened to commentators and sport writers, many have said how they cannot believe how much knowledge O'Shea has about the game. And we're seeing more and more of it now.

We want that continuity. That brings stability. That then brings winning. 

And who doesn't want that?

Sign him, sign him now, and let's continue the winning.

Some players have come here and some have chosen not to. It's certainly better than no one wanting to come here. How much of that is O'Shea, Walters, Miller, the new stadium, the new players, the new coaches, the fat paychecks, etc.?

As to him saying he is honest and authentic, that's nice, most anyone thinks of themselves in those terms, whether it's true or not.

I am sure Mike has a lot of knowledge about the game. He played as a linebacker for 16 seasons. How could he not have learned anything? Does that make him a great head coach? Does he really strike you as a guy that comes up with the right answers to every situation?

[Guest J5V]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

Funny, I can't help but wonder what MOS would be able to do if he inherited a championship calibre team with depth at every position on the roster.....

All things being equal, do you think a guy like Dickenson could help us convert in the red zone? O'Shea can't.

[SpeedFlex27]

I'm just glad the O'Shea hire is starting to work out. I'm sure he'll be signed to a new contract soon.

[Mr Dee]

Quote

Does he really strike you as a guy that comes up with the right answers to every situation

I'd argue that that statement applies to all Head Coaches. Every HC applies their knowledge from past experience and game knowledge. O'Shea is no different. And he's getting better. It's been acknowledged that O'Shea has outcoached more than one Coach on the sidelines this year.

Quote

All things being equal, do you think a guy like Dickenson could help us convert in the red zone? O'Shea can't.

That's disputable. 

We're doing better in the Red Zone than a lot of fans think. For instance, in the last game we were in the RZone 4 times and we scored all 4 times. 2 FGs and 2 TDs. We could have gone for another TD from the 1 yard line, but that was a Coach's decision to kick.

We have averaged 31.8 points per game since our last 8 games since our last bye. And that's not all FGs.

[Mike]

21 hours ago, Floyd said:

For every bright spot, there's a Kuale and a Hurl.

Winning record is pretty much from Willy getting benched, Macho getting hurt and Medlock's streak. 

Regardless, Osh isn't going anywhere - Miller and Walters will get him on a three year deal...  then the same next year for Walters.

This is an interesting way to look at things.