Miller starting contract extension talks with Walters O'Shea

[17to85]

Dickenson stepped into the easier position in the league to be a head coach. Championship calibre team, best qb in the league, depth coming out their asses AND a damned fine ex-head coach to guide him if he needs it sitting in the GM chair. 

A lot different than the situation O'Shea stepped into. No depth, no NIs, very little high end talent, wet behind the ears qbs, rookie GM, team with a bad reputation making it hard to actually get people to come here... yeah wonder why things weren't all sunshine and roses from the get go. 

[mbrg]

21 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Dickenson stepped into the easier position in the league to be a head coach. Championship calibre team, best qb in the league, depth coming out their asses AND a damned fine ex-head coach to guide him if he needs it sitting in the GM chair. 

A lot different than the situation O'Shea stepped into. No depth, no NIs, very little high end talent, wet behind the ears qbs, rookie GM, team with a bad reputation making it hard to actually get people to come here... yeah wonder why things weren't all sunshine and roses from the get go. 

Let's not kid ourselves - that 2014 team was only a Dave Dickenson away from winning the cup.

[voodoochylde]

28 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

And, he couldn't deliver either of them. 

Hell .. it's not like THEY had any choice in the matter.  Damn you O'Shea for not making the dumpster fire that was Winnipeg appear more palatable.

[JCon]

5 minutes ago, mbrg said:

Let's not kid ourselves - that 2014 team was only a Dave Dickenson away from winning the cup.

I'm sure O'Shea stays up at night wondering what would Dickenson do?

[Mike]

36 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

And, he couldn't deliver either of them. 

But based on your attitude towards this season so far, you sure don't seem to care about *only* the results, so why do *only* the results matter in this case?

 

[Floyd]

Yup. Bye week.

[mbrg]

I guess we must relent - everything the Bombers do, have done, have thought about doing or may do in the future, is a failure and worthy of shame.

Aardvarking and Tburging - it takes a special kind of poster to become an adverb.

[Floyd]

[17to85]

50 minutes ago, mbrg said:

Let's not kid ourselves - that 2014 team was only a Dave Dickenson away from winning the cup.

A circa 2003 Dave Dickenson, absolutely 100% agree. 

[bearpants]

39 minutes ago, mbrg said:

I guess we must relent - everything the Bombers do, have done, have thought about doing or may do in the future, is a failure and worthy of shame.

Aardvarking and Tburging - it takes a special kind of poster to become an adverb.

An Aardburg?....

[Bigblue204]

3 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

To be fair everything hasn't gone Dickenson's way. 

From BlueInCGY on that other site:

 

All that proves is my previous point...that DD was handed a championship calibre team..those include depth. He hasn't faced any great adversity yet when it comes to injuries.... due to great depth. There's no poor play reasons, no poor coordinators to overcome, no cnd depth shortages. None of which have anything to do with his HCing skills. 

I'm not saying he's a bad coach, I just don't think you can say what DD has done this year proves that MOS was **** his first year. The 2014 BB and the 2016 stamps are in very different positions when it comes to talent level/depth. 

[Bigblue204]

4 minutes ago, bearpants said:

An Aardburg?....

That might work if they weren't on completely opposite ends of the spectrum

[JCon]

Based on TBurg's  argument, MOS must be the 2nd best coach in the league, given he has the 2nd best record. Looks like the Bombers have done well to get him and will do well to keep him.  

[Floyd]

6 hours ago, Mike said:

This is an interesting way to look at things.

I would add the emergence of travis bond as well... but those three are probably the primary factors

Willy/Lapo could not move the pocket - Nichols can, Macho Harris was playing S with no closing speed and Medlock gives Osh the chance to kick field goals from 50 yards out

[bearpants]

11 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

That might work if they weren't on completely opposite ends of the spectrum

It could apply to a generally ridiculous comment... or an extreme opinion that contradicts facts... yeah, I like that one better...

[Floyd]

9 minutes ago, bearpants said:

It could apply to a generally ridiculous comment... or an extreme opinion that contradicts facts... yeah, I like that one better...

I know!!!  First he suggests that only extending Osh by two years and then he says Dickenson might be a better coach.

PSYYYCCHHHOOO!!!

[yogi]

41 minutes ago, bearpants said:

an extreme opinion that contradicts facts...

I believe that's called gbilling. 

I miss that nutter

[Noeller]

1 minute ago, yogi said:

I believe that's called gbilling. 

I miss that nutter

well, as long as you give him credit for SOMETHING.......

[TBURGESS]

But based on your attitude towards this season so far, you sure don't seem to care about *only* the results, so why do *only* the results matter in this case?

Because anyone can say they want two of the best available coordinators, even me, and that certainly doesn't make me HC material. Unless you can deliver them, it doesn't mean squat. O'Shea ultimately failed at bringing in good coordinators, not once, not twice, but all of them. His second go round was better but Hall was out of the CFL as a DC if we didn't hire him and PLAP was a year too late.

1 hour ago, Bigblue204 said:

All that proves is my previous point...that DD was handed a championship calibre team..those include depth. He hasn't faced any great adversity yet when it comes to injuries.... due to great depth. There's no poor play reasons, no poor coordinators to overcome, no cnd depth shortages. None of which have anything to do with his HCing skills. 

I'm not saying he's a bad coach, I just don't think you can say what DD has done this year proves that MOS was **** his first year. The 2014 BB and the 2016 stamps are in very different positions when it comes to talent level/depth. 

Handed a good team, but he had to replace a ton of talent... Jeff Fuller, Jon Cornish, Eric Rogers, Keon Raymond, Juwan Simpson and Rich Stubler just to name a few. As outlined before he's had to make a bunch of in season changes and he's kept on winning. That's facing and beating adversity.

Dickenson's got the most wins for a rookie HC. 1 more and he ties for 2nd place in most wins in a season with Buono, Matthews, Trestman and Hufnagel. Win out and he's got the best record ever in the CFL. That's phenomenal even if he wasn't a rookie HC. 

Dickenson didn't hire poor coordinators. O'Shea did. The Canadian depth wasn't any good and O'Shea still went with 8 starting NI's, which isn't any kind of solution.

I don't know where your getting that I'm trying to say that anything DD has done this year proves that MOS was **** in his first year. Yes, O'Shea was bad in 2014, but that's on him, nothing to do with what DD is doing this year. I don't agree that Dickenson would be as bad as O'Shea was in 2014 under the same circumstances and I gave a bunch of examples of why. 

Having a great GM certainly helped Dickenson. Probably why it's bad to hire a rookie GM and a rookie HC (& CEO) at the same time. That's no excuse for O'Shea's mistakes. A better excuse is that his only previous coaching experience was 4 years as a STC where as Dickenson had 7 years of increasing responsibility (RBC, QBC, OC).

[Guest J5V]

21 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

Montreal wanted to interview him for HC the year before we did but O'Shea wanted another year under his belt and . Not just Walters saw a good HC in him. If he wins one more game he would have the most wins in a season since Ritchie win 2and he matches the 2002 teams. What more do you want 18-0?

Hey, who wouldn't want 18-0 and Mr. Dickenson's team is damned close to it, aren't they?

O'Shea, to me, is like any other member of this football club right up to Wade Miller. If we can get better in here, do it. Is anyone better than O'Shea available? Not that I know of. Was anyone better available 3 years ago? Not that I know of. All I'm saying is that IF someone better was available, like a Dave Dickenson, I'd replace O'Shea with him in a heartbeat, not because I don't like O'Shea or think he's a bad coach, but because I can't ignore Dickenson's credentials. The only reason I'd extend O'Shea is because I don't see better available NOT because I'm so awed by what he has accomplished in his three years here.

[Noeller]

2 minutes ago, J5V said:

Hey, who wouldn't want 18-0 and Mr. Dickenson's team is damned close to it, aren't they?

O'Shea, to me, is like any other member of this football club right up to Wade Miller. If we can get better in here, do it. Is anyone better than O'Shea available? Not that I know of. Was anyone better available 3 years ago? Not that I know of. All I'm saying is that IF someone better was available, like a Dave Dickenson, I'd replace O'Shea with him in a heartbeat, not because I don't like O'Shea or think he's a bad coach, but because I can't ignore Dickenson's credentials. The only reason I'd extend O'Shea is because I don't see better available NOT because I'm so awed by what he has accomplished in his three years here.

the point is -- people are giving DD too much credit for the Stamps success this year...

[MOBomberFan]

If the Bombers beat the Stamps to advance to the GC, is O'Shea a better coach for winning with an inferior team? Would he then be worthy of a 4 year extension, by being the best coach in the league?

Keep dreaming I know. This team cant possibly beat the Stamps in the playoffs...

 

...right?

[Guest J5V]

8 hours ago, Mike said:

Some people can just never be happy.

I think all Bomber fans are happy with where we sit today. The thread is about extending Walters and O'Shea. I'd say yes to both because there isn't anything better to go to.

[Guest J5V]

3 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

And, he couldn't deliver either of them. 

I really thought he had a shot at Stubler since they were Toronto boys together. In Richie Hall's case, is there a better DC available? Not that I know of.

[Guest J5V]

28 minutes ago, Noeller said:

the point is -- people are giving DD too much credit for the Stamps success this year...

Perhaps, but you have to wonder why. I think he's probably the real deal.