Miller starting contract extension talks with Walters O'Shea

[TBURGESS]

29 minutes ago, Rich said:

I'm curious, if we don't win a playoff game, you still let O'Shea walk?  Or is it a combination of some of those things?

If you would have asked me at the beginning of the season what would it have taken to get an extension, my answer would have been making the playoffs.

I said at the beginning of the season that a home playoff game was my answer to what O'Shea needed to do to get an extension. Simply making the playoffs wasn't enough then and is certainly not enough now that we've got 8 wins with 6 games left because that means winning one or two out in the last third of the season.

It depends on which playoff game we are in and how we play. If it's an at home game and we are close but no cigar, then sure, I'd extend O'Shea. If it's a blowout game in someone else's field (IE if we are 3rd or a cross over), then I'd think long and hard about if O'Shea has shown enough over 3 years to get an extension. No playoff wins would definitely affect the extension offer... 2, not 3 years and the dollars would be less than winning a playoff game or at least hosting one. That's another reason I'd wait until the season is over to extend O'Shea.

[Mark F]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

Phenomenal article.

 

I'm embarrased that I even thought we should can the guy.

That really is an excellent article.

 

[Mr Dee]

Thanks to Arash Madani for putting into words, with testimonials, the meaning behind the man. Many of us, who believe in the man, are happy to see so many players, former players, stick up for the man. 

As many of us suspected, O'Shea is part of the culture change being pushed forward by the WFC. He, and Walters are building the future of the club here. Success, hopefully will follow.

They, and we fans, deserve it.

[Nash00]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

I said at the beginning of the season that a home playoff game was my answer to what O'Shea needed to do to get an extension. Simply making the playoffs wasn't enough then and is certainly not enough now that we've got 8 wins with 6 games left because that means winning one or two out in the last third of the season.

It depends on which playoff game we are in and how we play. If it's an at home game and we are close but no cigar, then sure, I'd extend O'Shea. If it's a blowout game in someone else's field (IE if we are 3rd or a cross over), then I'd think long and hard about if O'Shea has shown enough over 3 years to get an extension. No playoff wins would definitely affect the extension offer... 2, not 3 years and the dollars would be less than winning a playoff game or at least hosting one. That's another reason I'd wait until the season is over to extend O'Shea.

I don't see how blowing up the past three years and starting all over again with a new staff will accomplish anything. For one, there are no real attractive candidates out there to replace him except for retreads (Higgins, Chamblin). It doesn't make sense to me to promote either of LaPolice or Hall and if you don't extend O'Shea you also lose his abilities as a ST coach and no one can argue the success we have had in that area since he took over from Pat Tracey.

Any momentum this team would have from getting into the playoffs would be erased and once again we would start at the bottom looking up at the rest of the West. Everyone would ***** and moan about how we have a journeyman QB getting on in years and spent too much money on an aging vet WR past his prime. Next thing you know it's another goddamn rebuild and who knows how long until we climb out of that hole.

Walters and O'Shea have done a terrific job of restoring this roster to one that can win every week. Canadian and import depth is at the best state we have seen in years. Our o-line is improving every week and when we suffer injuries the next man up comes in and performs to the point that we wonder when/if the injured player gets back in because he has to earn it back.

But yeah if we lose a playoff game let's torch the **** thing.

[Mr Dee]

Way too many restrictions and form-chart decision paths there TBurg. Sometimes you just need to look at the totality of the situation and make a common sense decision. 

The common sense decision, in this case, is to begin the process of contract talks. Seems logical to a lot of people.

Oh, and by the way, it's time to change your signature. It's so wrong for you. And besides, Brian Baeumler (Leave it to Bryan) wants his slogan back. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by Mr Dee

[Jimmy Pop]

Sure, sputtering down the stretch and blowing a possible showdown with Cgy for the west crown in November would be disappointing. But what's the alternative, blow it up and start anew? 

Many have touched on it already, but what Walters and especially O'Shea have brought to the table the past 3 seasons has largely been the non tangible things that don't always translate to wins, aren't therefore aren't immediately clear to fans.  I think Osh has established a "Bomber way" within that room. What's expected from the individual player as well as their contribution to the team. What's needed to win and win consistently.  How to carry yourself like a pro, and put the team first.  These are ideals well established for teams like Cgy. For Wpg, the only think we've been known for as of late is dysfunction and losing.  Adding vets like Harris, Shologan and Dressler sure helps - but make no mistake, this is Mike O'Shea's team. 

Now, finally, after 2.5 years the wins are coming too.  If the proof is in the pudding, the Bombers have just supplied 2 months worth of free snack packs to fans. And a good start that is.

So while we're eating dessert, contemplating how to go from snack packs (regular season wins) to creme brule (postseason W's), let's not get too hasty and remodel the whole kitchen. We've been to cooking classes the last 2 years; now it's just about perfecting the recipe and dishing out good meals every week. 

Anyone else hungry now? 

[Fatty Liver]

5 hours ago, sweep the leg said:

Interesting article on O'Shea on 3Downnation:

http://3downnation.com/2016/09/20/mike-oshea-saved-bombers-season/

Great article.  The bolded sentence below probably explains why he stuck with guys like Peach and Hurl as long as he did.

“He built this team on character, and a lot of people say ‘that can’t happen in sports.’ Osh believes in that,” said Remple, the long snapper, who played against O’Shea and has worked for him in Toronto and Winnipeg.

“When we make player moves and roster decisions, every conversation has Mike asking: ‘but how does this affect the team dynamic?’” Walters, the GM, relays. “It’s at the forefront of his thought process.”

O’Shea will stand on the table and fight to keep an ‘effort guy’ around. He’ll go to the wall for someone who brings it. It matters immensely to him. But a winning team can’t just only have those.

“We’re not all choir boys, but we respect the game and make sure one another are on point,” said Westerman, the rush end. “The players he’s brought in fit the profile of what he wants: guys who love playing, who bring toughness, who are not Boy Scouts, who are not afraid to hold others accountable.”

[mbrg]

54 minutes ago, Mr Dee said:

Way too many restrictions and form-chart decision paths there TBurg.

Tburg just be Tburging.  Ain't no big thing.

Thought we were all used to it by now.

[TBURGESS]

Rich asked me a question. I answered it.

While I'm really happy with the current win streak, especially the last quarter of the last game, I've seen tons of streaks come to an end and the teams were unable to restart them. Several examples from the Bombers recent past come to mind. Picking the best couple of months work out of 2.5 years of futility is no way to make rational business decisions. 

Most folks really want the win streak to be the real O'Shea and say that all the losing before that doesn't matter. This win streak provides the first actual evidence that we may be heading in the right direction. While W/L is the stat that matters the most, it's not the only  thing that matters. You have to include the level of competition and their QB problems. 

If O'Shea can't get us a home playoff game or win a playoff game in 3 years of trying, at the very least, it should effect the contract length and dollars involved. Right now, we don't know if he can. We don't even know if he has built a team that can beat another +.500 team yet, so new contract talk is premature IMO. 

[Taynted_Fayth]

9 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

Rich asked me a question. I answered it.

While I'm really happy with the current win streak, especially the last quarter of the last game, I've seen tons of streaks come to an end and the teams were unable to restart them. Several examples from the Bombers recent past come to mind. Picking the best couple of months work out of 2.5 years of futility is no way to make rational business decisions. 

Most folks really want the win streak to be the real O'Shea and say that all the losing before that doesn't matter. This win streak provides the first actual evidence that we may be heading in the right direction. While W/L is the stat that matters the most, it's not the only  thing that matters. You have to include the level of competition and their QB problems. 

If O'Shea can't get us a home playoff game or win a playoff game in 3 years of trying, at the very least, it should effect the contract length and dollars involved. Right now, we don't know if he can. We don't even know if he has built a team that can beat another +.500 team yet, so new contract talk is premature IMO. 

thats the key part most people lost in the win streak euphoria are neglecting.  He is definitely on pace to get an extension and likely will get it, but I'd a little conservative on the length right now.  If playing for his job and others playing for his job actually had an impact on the last 7 games, I would keep that motivation strong heading down the stretch

Edited September 20, 2016 by Taynted_Fayth

[Noeller]

lots of talk comparing this current win streak to 2001......as we discuss whether MOS needs to win to save his job, it's interesting to note that in 2001, Dave Ritchie did literally need to win to save his job, because they had a clause in the contract whereby he needed to win X number of games over 1999-2001. The 14 wins that year just got him over the number needed to auto-extend his contract.....

[LeBird]

Coming to a coach like MOS can't be a bad thing when it's FA time. 

[Tracker]

Here's a blasphemous thought: No question that the team would be in way worse shape if not for Medlock, and if we had an average punter/kicker, we would probably finish the season something like 6&12 or 7&11. Would we still have all these warm, fuzzy feelings about Walters and/or O'Shea under those conditions or would we be warming up the bitumen?

[brett_c_b]

3 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

We don't even know if he has built a team that can beat another +.500 team yet,

To be fair right now there are 3 other teams that are .500 or better

Calgary - Haven't proved we can beat them, which pretty much applies to every team right now

BC - Haven't played them yet

Hamilton - We've beat them twice

So for teams that are currently .500 or better we're 2/3

 

Then there's the teams that are close

Toronto - They could be .500 or better, but we beat them twice so they aren't

Edmonton - They could be .500 but we beat them once

Ottawa - Haven't played them

 

At some point the wins have to count for something. We have 4 losses, 2 to the best team in the league, one to the defending champions who we've also beat, and an ugly season opening loss to Montreal. But Calgary is the only .500 team we've played that we haven't beat, and there are two teams who are below .500 because we beat them.  I know it's natural as a bomber fan to just be waiting for the wheels to fall off ,and yes this was the "easy" stretch of the schedule, but news flash, it's not a bad thing (or even something that ever happened to the bombers) to win the games you're expected to win, we normally lose those.

[blitzmore]

Not to mention we lose them at home...until now

Edited September 20, 2016 by blitzmore

[17to85]

15 minutes ago, tracker said:

Here's a blasphemous thought: No question that the team would be in way worse shape if not for Medlock, and if we had an average punter/kicker, we would probably finish the season something like 6&12 or 7&11. Would we still have all these warm, fuzzy feelings about Walters and/or O'Shea under those conditions or would we be warming up the bitumen?

What do you consider an average kicker though? Cause Medlock isn't the only guy to make a majority of his kicks and I don't really see him as being the difference really. The difference is the depth the team now has where injuries aren't making it impossible to compete because the guys coming off the bench are a a clear step down. 

[brett_c_b]

6 hours ago, 17to85 said:

What do you consider an average kicker though? Cause Medlock isn't the only guy to make a majority of his kicks and I don't really see him as being the difference really. The difference is the depth the team now has where injuries aren't making it impossible to compete because the guys coming off the bench are a a clear step down. 

I can't say if this is accurate off the top of my head, but for years it's seemed like Medlock has the best accuracy on 45+ yard kicks, which has been a definite need for the bombers who don't always get deep in the other teams end. 

[iso_55]

As I said before I think you wait until the absolute final game of the season before giving an extension to MOS. The Bombers could go 1-5 or 0-6. They could also go 3-3 or 4-2 which to me would be awesome. I think the prudent choice though is to see how the season plays out before any extension is given. 

[17to85]

7 hours ago, brett_c_b said:

I can't say if this is accurate off the top of my head, but for years it's seemed like Medlock has the best accuracy on 45+ yard kicks, which has been a definite need for the bombers who don't always get deep in the other teams end. 

but if they didn't have a kicker who can hit consistently from 45 yards or better they'd probably punt more and with how good the cover teams are maybe they'd get either more turnovers or just keep tilting the field position to the point where eventually they do get the points anyway. So many moving pieces in football it's impossible to say that without this it's this. 

[Noeller]

Of note: Today is Coach Osh's bday.........happy bday, Coach! (...and Kevin Fogg, too ;)......)

[Nash00]

19 minutes ago, Noeller said:

Of note: Today is Coach Osh's bday.........happy bday, Coach! (...and Kevin Fogg, too ;)......)

I thought Fogg's birthday was yesterday (and the day before that, and the day before that...)

[LeBird]

Let's just say MOS had started in his first year with the team he has today. What would be his record now? Unfortunately he started with a crap team and had the patience to chip away until this year we do have a very good team. How good? we don't know because we have had so many injuries to some key offensive stars. Why would his way of doing things change? Next year we will be much better again because of a couple of first round picks and maybe a few FA's wanting to come here. Hey, that article has got to be the best publicity he could wish for.

[mbrg]

19 hours ago, tracker said:

Here's a blasphemous thought: No question that the team would be in way worse shape if not for Medlock, and if we had an average punter/kicker, we would probably finish the season something like 6&12 or 7&11. Would we still have all these warm, fuzzy feelings about Walters and/or O'Shea under those conditions or would we be warming up the bitumen?

Blasphemous thought?

Not really, just a strange one.  Not sure why "pump the brakes with all this praise, he's got talented players now!" is where your mind goes.  Any other coaches in this league you plan on giving that particular sniff test to?

Guess Jones really is the best coach in the league after all; he's gotten two wins out of that garbage team.  We all owe Billichek North an apology.

Cut them all!  Round up some crappy players for him to coach!

 

(And today's least surprising thing ever - who decided that comment needed a like.)

[sweep the leg]

18 minutes ago, mbrg said:

Blasphemous thought?

Not really, just a strange one.  Not sure why "pump the brakes with all this praise, he's got talented players now!" is where your mind goes.  Any other coaches in this league you plan on giving that particular sniff test to?

 

I thought the same thing when I read that comment. It's a weird way to frame the situation.

[Atomic]

I have to agree with tracker.  If O'Shea and Walters did not have players that were this good, the team would have less wins.