Miller starting contract extension talks with Walters O'Shea

[Guest J5V]

6 hours ago, tracker said:

There has to be a sort of seduction about being a second-half team. It would be tempting for players to not give their best at the start of the game on the assumption that they can always make it up in the second half. When up against a very good team ie: the Stamps, that can be fatal, and it was.

And I bet Calgary was scolded for exactly the opposite -- great start but can't let up or the other team will come storming back.

[Guest J5V]

7 hours ago, Mr Dee said:

I believe that as much as I believe Winnipeg let up in the first half allowing Calgary to get a huge lead...

Um, can you let up at the start of a game? Pretty sure the game starts 0-0. 

[Guest J5V]

7 hours ago, TBURGESS said:

I do think they let up, but that's not the point. The Bombers players and fans can tell themselves that they played great in the second half and if they just played that well in the first half, they'd have killed the Stamps. That's what keeps the confidence intact.

Ah, I see your point, re: the loss cycle, and I agree. They showed a lot coming back like they did against a superior opponent.

[Guest J5V]

6 hours ago, Stickem said:

We came out flatter than a pancake...can't do that against good teams....Is that on coaching???? I would say partly but the players have to wear some of that as well...Does this loss affect contract talks??? Shouldn't as we still have a long way to go in 16' ...IF all of the wheels fall off between now and our season ender then we certainly have to have a rethink about extensions...till then keep talking.

You raise a good point. Despite the huge turnover in personnel since Walters and O'Shea took over we have certainly had troubles starting strong and playing a 60 minute game. I have to think it's on the coaching but I have no idea how you coach that. My guess would be to run practices the same way, flat out for the duration, but I just don't know if that's practical.

[Fatty Liver]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

You raise a good point. Despite the huge turnover in personnel since Walters and O'Shea took over we have certainly had troubles starting strong and playing a 60 minute game. I have to think it's on the coaching but I have no idea how you coach that. My guess would be to run practices the same way, flat out for the duration, but I just don't know if that's practical.

If you think back to the last two seasons this has been an ongoing problem that resurfaces every few games and it seems the bigger the game the more likely they are to come out flat.  It could be that the players fall for the hype and put too much pressure on themselves to perform instead of relaxing, having fun and letting it flow.

[iso_55]

1 hour ago, J5V said:

Um, can you let up at the start of a game? Pretty sure the game starts 0-0. 

Nerves, I believe.

[bearpants]

On 25/09/2016 at 10:51 AM, J5V said:

Letting up isn't necessarily a conscious decision. I think when the Stamps got up big they just let up a bit. It's natural. We are full credit for taking advantage. My concern is that if this is a playoff game, they keep their foot on our throats.

I would suggest these two comments contradict each other... if "letting up" is subconscious then why wouldn't they do the same thing in a playoff game...

I don't think the comeback was a result of letting up... maybe after the first Bomber TD they thought no big deal, we still have a big lead... but when the game got close (30-21) the game was for real again and we still drove and scored and stopped them on D... 

[do or die]

Stamps may have started resting on their chaps.....but momentum in a football game is not like a light switch.   The Bombers started playing better and after the 2nd TD clearly was picking up MO, getting the O in gear, getting better field position, etc.   Suddenly, Calgary had to put the backslapping on hold and ramp it up again.  By then the Bombers were matching them blow for blow....in a dogfight.  

[Guest J5V]

4 hours ago, bearpants said:

I would suggest these two comments contradict each other... if "letting up" is subconscious then why wouldn't they do the same thing in a playoff game...

I don't think the comeback was a result of letting up... maybe after the first Bomber TD they thought no big deal, we still have a big lead... but when the game got close (30-21) the game was for real again and we still drove and scored and stopped them on D... 

Lots of reasons I can think of and I do belief there is plenty of precedent for what I'm suggesting. The biggest difference between a regular season game and a playoff game is, of course, the stakes. There's no tomorrow in the CFL playoffs.

The Calgary of the first half and the final :14 was the real Calgary and our D had no answer for it. We need to figure out why because if we are fortunate enough to get a playoff date with them we cannot let BLM sit back there and have all day to make passes to his receivers who had all day to get open.

3 hours ago, do or die said:

Stamps may have started resting on their chaps.....but momentum in a football game is not like a light switch.   The Bombers started playing better and after the 2nd TD clearly was picking up MO, getting the O in gear, getting better field position, etc.   Suddenly, Calgary had to put the backslapping on hold and ramp it up again.  By then the Bombers were matching them blow for blow....in a dogfight.  

Our inability to hold them with :14 left was most disheartening. Still, a 53 yard field goal is very missable. For some reason, good teams seem to have a habit of finding a way to beat us with the game on the line. We have to find a way to reverse that trend.

[Mike]

Seems to be a lot of overanalyzing of a last second loss to a team that has won 10 in a row.

[pigseye]

On ‎25‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 11:59 AM, Noeller said:

Who brought the players in?

They were always there from the start of training camp though. It's not like he told the coaches to injure the starters and start the backups.

[wbbfan]

On 9/25/2016 at 7:45 PM, iso_55 said:

Nerves, I believe.

the huge majority of the start of the game is preparation and coaching. The first drive on offense is scripted and practiced. The nervous energy at the start is real, but for the majority of players its an asset imop. 

 

On 9/27/2016 at 3:37 PM, Mike said:

Seems to be a lot of overanalyzing of a last second loss to a team that has won 10 in a row.

We got away with poor starts, kicking too many field goals, playing half a game, and giving up long drives through out the win streak. The last few weeks where sask was at our throat, then TO was rolling against us and into the loses weve seen the same kinds of problems. Now the turn overs have mostly dried up and weve looked bad again. But such things are to be expected from a shell shocked fan base that has seen too many awful years in a row and had though this year was just another one allready. Not to mention these fans now have the jets to cheer for and its that time of year. People turn toxic and negative quickly and easily. Turning back not so much. 

Plus MOS tearing a strip off the team late, seemingly trying to fire up the flat squad says a lot. Weve never seen him fiery like that on the side line before. Hes allways stuck to his, they are pro's they allways play hard and prepare. 

Edited October 2, 2016 by wbbfan

[Blueandgold]

On 9/25/2016 at 5:55 PM, iso_55 said:

I'm worried that this could become an extended losing streak... I really want us to go 3-3 including yesterday.

Me too. The seven game winning streak was very impressive, but it remains to be seen if we can sustain our strong play following a loss. I'm hoping its not like our 7-1 start in(2011, yes I know we went to the GC) nor or 5-1 start in 2014. Given the way we played last night, I'm afraid of us reverting back to our level of play from earlier in the season.

Next weeks game is HUGE.

[wbbfan]

9 minutes ago, Blueandgold said:

Me too. The seven game winning streak was very impressive, but it remains to be seen if we can sustain our strong play following a loss. I'm hoping its not like our 7-1 start in(2011, yes I know we went to the GC) nor or 5-1 start in 2014. Given the way we played last night, I'm afraid of us reverting back to our level of play from earlier in the season.

Next weeks game is HUGE.

from here on out they are all huge. 

[Tracker]

22 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

from here on out they are all huge. 

Yup. If we fumble our way into the playoffs due to the weakness in the eastern conference, it will be a very short playoff appearance, and an embarrassing one. The Bombers have to earn their way or fans will tune them out.

[White Out]

I'd hold off on the MOS extension now until post season. If the Bombers stumble into the playoffs and are a one and done team, then I'd really be hesitant to bring him back. Walters I think has certainly earned his stay for a couple more years at least. But if this team just goes right back into the crapper after a long winning streak that's not saying a lot about  this teams culture  in the locker room and the standards they believe to be working under.

Lot's of football left. Win back to back against BC and the losses to the Alberta teams will quickly be forgotten. Be swept by BC and we may be looking at crossing over. Shits getting real.

 

[pigseye]

The team is still a couple players away from being a heavy weight contender, which I think is obvious to most, see BLM's they are who we thought they were remark.

If Walters and company actually believe that the current bunch is the best they can do, then they shouldn't be retained. Or if they intend on the slow and steady, take it one year at a time philosophy, then they shouldn't be retained either.

The time to win is now, add the last couple pieces and make a run, that's the only scenario under which I would retain them.

[Tracker]

4 hours ago, pigseye said:

The team is still a couple players away from being a heavy weight contender, which I think is obvious to most, see BLM's they are who we thought they were remark.

If Walters and company actually believe that the current bunch is the best they can do, then they shouldn't be retained. Or if they intend on the slow and steady, take it one year at a time philosophy, then they shouldn't be retained either.

The time to win is now, add the last couple pieces and make a run, that's the only scenario under which I would retain them.

Good assessment, but apart from the theoretical availability of Muamba, where do you find the upgrades? We need at least one on the DLine, probably at MLB and at receiver. I am pessimistic about Walters' ability to recruit difference-makers this late in the season.

[rebusrankin]

In the off-season, we need to add a NI receiver, either free agency or through the draft. We need at least one more larger receiver (6ft 2 or taller). I'd like a better OC too.

[pigseye]

6 minutes ago, tracker said:

Good assessment, but apart from the theoretical availability of Muamba, where do you find the upgrades? We need at least one on the DLine, probably at MLB and at receiver. I am pessimistic about Walters' ability to recruit difference-makers this late in the season.

Right now it's NFL cuts, Fuller, Sinkfield, Hunt, Jefferson while we sit on our hands. There were 2 ends and 2 receivers who would have instantly filled our needs.

[Goalie]

Did Phil hunt play this week cuz i never noticed him. I don't think he makes a difference here. Jefferson? He's a Chris Jones guy. Never an option. The 2 receivers? Maybe but I don't really think our issue on O is receiver. ... I think its oc and qb..... Ya I said it... Nichols is part of the problem for sure. He's average. Willy is below average. We really do need a better QB.  

[iso_55]

7 hours ago, Goalie said:

Did Phil hunt play this week cuz i never noticed him. I don't think he makes a difference here. Jefferson? He's a Chris Jones guy. Never an option. The 2 receivers? Maybe but I don't really think our issue on O is receiver. ... I think its oc and qb..... Ya I said it... Nichols is part of the problem for sure. He's average. Willy is below average. We really do need a better QB.  

Our receiving corps isn't good enough. Did you guys see Arceneaux & Burnham now with Sinkfield?? We need to get bigger & more physical on offense. By more physical I mean the receivers breaking tackles & being great blockers. We need to upgrade. I can live with Dressler but not Dressler & Smith. With a better receiving corps I think Nichols will play better. Our play selection is based on spreading the field with quick, short passes resulting in ball control. It makes for long scoring drives. We aren't a quick scoring, big play offense.

[Brandon]

I love how on these boards if we ever get big receivers certain users will complain "We need speed and guys with good hands".... when we have a group of smaller receivers these same users complain  "We need size... we need to get jump balls and we need size".  

It's hilarious because no matter who we get they will complain.

I personally will take smaller guys like Dressler and Smith any day of the week over taller crap players who disappear like Romby Bryant and Aaron Kelly.

The issues on this team is far from having guys that are to short playing receiver.  

 

[bearpants]

15 hours ago, Goalie said:

Did Phil hunt play this week cuz i never noticed him. I don't think he makes a difference here. Jefferson? He's a Chris Jones guy. Never an option. The 2 receivers? Maybe but I don't really think our issue on O is receiver. ... I think its oc and qb..... Ya I said it... Nichols is part of the problem for sure. He's average. Willy is below average. We really do need a better QB.  

I only partly agree with you... Nichols is decent but not great, we will hopefully find an upgrade in the near future... but the glaring need on the offense right now is a difference making receiver... someone like Bowman, Walker, Arceneaux, Eric Rogers, Duron Carter... I like Dressler, Denmark and Smith but they don't change the game the way those guys do...

[17to85]

9 hours ago, Brandon said:

I love how on these boards if we ever get big receivers certain users will complain "We need speed and guys with good hands".... when we have a group of smaller receivers these same users complain  "We need size... we need to get jump balls and we need size".  

It's hilarious because no matter who we get they will complain.

I personally will take smaller guys like Dressler and Smith any day of the week over taller crap players who disappear like Romby Bryant and Aaron Kelly.

The issues on this team is far from having guys that are to short playing receiver.  

 

why can't we find bit receivers with good hands like Manny Arceneaux or SJ Green etc etc etc? Why do we have to choose? Kyle Walters needs to get his ass in gear and find some guys who can play from the states because right now the smurf brigade isn't cutting it. Can't have them all be midgets and expect it to work. Was comical to see Smith trying to go deep on Watkins, Watkins just has to be close and it's impossible to complete a deep ball to Smith because of the size mismatch.