PI replay review NFL/CFL

[MTA]

Pro football talk is all over it today

"As the NFL continues to try to improve the replay process, the league desperately needs to take a page from the CFL playbook.The NFL needs to make pass interference, and the lack thereof, subject to replay review."

"Hopefully, the NFL will be willing to study the CFL’s experience with replay review of pass interference, and sufficiently ego-free to embrace an idea that the CFL hatched before its more established counterpart. Hopefully, that will happen before officials fail to call pass interference in a situation that decides the outcome of a postseason game."

[BomberBall]

Personally I hope the NFL keeps their review system as is and the CFL stops reviewing pass interference.

[mbrg]

17 minutes ago, BomberBall said:

Personally I hope the NFL keeps their review system as is and the CFL stops reviewing pass interference.

I'm fine with the review concept; the implementation needs overhauling.

Probably the best idea I've seen is getting rid of slow-motion for reviews.  If the command center can't tell in real time with multiple looks whether or not it was a penalty, there should be no expectation on the ref to get the original call right with only one look.  While running down the field with players moving around him and fans screaming at him.

Save slow-mo exclusively for reviewing turnovers, in-bounds/out-of-bounds, etc.

When it comes to pass interference, the biggest problem isn't whether reviews are used or not, it's the appearance of a lack of a single standard and definition of what constitutes pass interference, and getting all refs to call it to that same standard.

[BomberBall]

4 minutes ago, mbrg said:

I'm fine with the review concept; the implementation needs overhauling.

Probably the best idea I've seen is getting rid of slow-motion for reviews.  If the command center can't tell in real time with multiple looks whether or not it was a penalty, there should be no expectation on the ref to get the original call right with only one look.  While running down the field with players moving around him and fans screaming at him.

Save slow-mo exclusively for reviewing turnovers, in-bounds/out-of-bounds, etc.

When it comes to pass interference, the biggest problem isn't whether reviews are used or not, it's the appearance of a lack of a single standard and definition of what constitutes pass interference, and getting all refs to call it to that same standard.

Well said.  Although I'm not a fan of reviewing PI, if they're going to do it, I like the idea of not allowing it to be reviewed in slow-motion.

[Nash00]

2 hours ago, BomberBall said:

Well said.  Although I'm not a fan of reviewing PI, if they're going to do it, I like the idea of not allowing it to be reviewed in slow-motion.

Agreed. You can't fault the refs on the field for not being able to slow time down and make the correct call. Replay should be used to overturn egregious errors that can directly change the outcome of the game. Whether or not a guy made a small tug on the jersey when you zoom in at 200x does not.

[holoman]

I remember back in the day when review was first implemented .  there was a rule that you had 30 seconds to review.  If you couldn't overturn it within that time, the call on the field stands.   I like that they really want to get the call right, but if it takes you longer than  30 seconds, chances are it's a 50/50 shot to begin with. 

[sportmentary2012]

I think the ability to review PI was started with good intentions but it is a subjective call that it makes it difficult to know what 'pi' is from game to game and ref to ref. here is the link to the rule:https://cfldb.ca/rulebook/passing/forward-pass/#r6s4a10

I am fairly critical of the refs but you need a PHD in rocket science to understand how to implement these rules.

[wbbfan]

Current problem in the cfl is due to the refs, and the awful changes to PI rules/enforcement. Not the ability to challenge PI. That and the time it takes for the refs to execute a challenge review. 

[iso_55]

Be careful what you wish for NFL & it's fans as it may come true.

[JuranBoldenRules]

On PI reviews and any penalty review for that matter, the replay official should get one look in real time at each angle available, then make the call.  Simple.

Realistically the replay official should have basically have his mind made by the time the ref is even finished talking to the coach about the challenge.  There's only one CFL game at a time and they are watching it.  The amount of time spent on reviews makes zero sense.

[GimliJetsMan]

On 9/20/2016 at 10:26 AM, mbrg said:

I'm fine with the review concept; the implementation needs overhauling.

Probably the best idea I've seen is getting rid of slow-motion for reviews.  If the command center can't tell in real time with multiple looks whether or not it was a penalty, there should be no expectation on the ref to get the original call right with only one look.  While running down the field with players moving around him and fans screaming at him.

Save slow-mo exclusively for reviewing turnovers, in-bounds/out-of-bounds, etc.

When it comes to pass interference, the biggest problem isn't whether reviews are used or not, it's the appearance of a lack of a single standard and definition of what constitutes pass interference, and getting all refs to call it to that same standard.

Love this idea.

[17to85]

Just scrap the entire review process already. Been a **** show from the day they implemented it and all their constant tweaks to try and fix it have only made it worse. 

[mbrg]

1 hour ago, GimliJetsMan said:

Love this idea.

Can't take credit for it, but it would go a long way to getting rid of the ticky-tack nonsense that they call now.  There should be no such thing as a subtle pass interference call.  Either it is obvious or it isn't worth calling.

And honestly, the CFL have been idiots when it comes to application of their rules, then see the idiocy in action and back away from it over time.  At the start of last season they declared "no contact" on a receiver was to be interpreted literally.  And then coaches decided to drop flags on the sidelines anytime slow-mo could demonstrate a DB brushed a fingernail against a receiver.  It was just awful.

[mbrg]

17 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

Just scrap the entire review process already. Been a **** show from the day they implemented it and all their constant tweaks to try and fix it have only made it worse. 

I like the idea of trying to get the call right.  Especially considering how often CFL refs get the call wrong.

The CFL has to use some common sense and stop trying to overreach the practical applications of video review.

[17to85]

8 minutes ago, mbrg said:

I like the idea of trying to get the call right.  Especially considering how often CFL refs get the call wrong.

The CFL has to use some common sense and stop trying to overreach the practical applications of video review.

but they have been getting reviews wrong every year since they started... it's a lot easier for me to accept human error when there is no review so for that reason just get rid of it and we'll all live with the breaks evening out over the course of  a season. Plus then we wouldn't get refs afraid to throw a flag or being overzealous throwing flags because they know that the replay official will do their job for them. 

[HardCoreBlue]

16 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

but they have been getting reviews wrong every year since they started... it's a lot easier for me to accept human error when there is no review so for that reason just get rid of it and we'll all live with the breaks evening out over the course of  a season. Plus then we wouldn't get refs afraid to throw a flag or being overzealous throwing flags because they know that the replay official will do their job for them. 

I said it here a while ago, coaches should have very little time to call a challenge. Once the play ends, you have five (?) seconds to call that challenge. We have teams looking at their Ipads determining whether to challenge or not. Give them very limited time to do that. We have a play clock why not a challenge clock?  

Edited September 23, 2016 by HardCoreBlue

[LeBird]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

Just scrap the entire review process already. Been a **** show from the day they implemented it and all their constant tweaks to try and fix it have only made it worse. 

Very good idea! Unless there is not doubt about it why not call an iffy call an illegal contact. I'm not sure if that call can be reviewed but it should not be.  It's a waste of time and on most review you can flip a coin on how it will be judged. 

[LeBird]

38 minutes ago, HardCoreBlue said:

I said it here a while ago, coaches should have very little time to call a challenge. Once the play ends, you have five (?) seconds to call that challenge. We have teams looking at their Ipads determining whether to challenge or not. Give them very limited time to do that. We have a play clock why not a challenge clock?  

I can't agree with the time issue. When you're watching a game, TSN show a replay of just about every play with time to spare. The coach has the time it takes the teams to get back to their huddles plus the better time of the 20 second clock.  Another clock means more wasted time.

[HardCoreBlue]

2 hours ago, LeBird said:

I can't agree with the time issue. When you're watching a game, TSN show a replay of just about every play with time to spare. The coach has the time it takes the teams to get back to their huddles plus the better time of the 20 second clock.  Another clock means more wasted time.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself well. I'm suggesting that a challenge clock counts down as soon as the play is whistled down and once it runs out (five seconds), a coach cannot throw a challenge flag. The play clock is another clock that is for a different purpose. 

[iso_55]

8 hours ago, 17to85 said:

but they have been getting reviews wrong every year since they started... it's a lot easier for me to accept human error when there is no review so for that reason just get rid of it and we'll all live with the breaks evening out over the course of  a season. Plus then we wouldn't get refs afraid to throw a flag or being overzealous throwing flags because they know that the replay official will do their job for them. 

Can't argue with that logic.

[Dragon37]

On September 23, 2016 at 0:37 PM, 17to85 said:

but they have been getting reviews wrong every year since they started... it's a lot easier for me to accept human error when there is no review so for that reason just get rid of it and we'll all live with the breaks evening out over the course of  a season. Plus then we wouldn't get refs afraid to throw a flag or being overzealous throwing flags because they know that the replay official will do their job for them. 

Bang on. Video review does not fix anything. Refs will make mistakes because they have one view at one speed. It is rare that a bad call has cost a game. I have personally never seen a bad call cost a team a game.

[wbbfan]

On 9/23/2016 at 0:37 PM, 17to85 said:

but they have been getting reviews wrong every year since they started... it's a lot easier for me to accept human error when there is no review so for that reason just get rid of it and we'll all live with the breaks evening out over the course of  a season. Plus then we wouldn't get refs afraid to throw a flag or being overzealous throwing flags because they know that the replay official will do their job for them. 

do you remember the pre challenge errors? The calgary on side punt game? the lamar mcgriggs phantom roughing the passer? Ed phillion constantly diving at kharis knees seconds after the whistle? Those cheap shots were the beginning of the end for khari. Challenge those early, and kharis career here is drastically improved. 

The system is working the right way, and teams are exploiting it in some cases. That means it needs to be refined, not scraped. 

Its more important to get the key calls right. especially with how the refs have been this year. What needs to change is the time it takes to challenge, the ability for coaches to use them on a play thats allready been reviewed, etc. With this logic we should just get rid of the refs because they arent working the way we want and let the teams play.

Edited September 26, 2016 by wbbfan