Bombers add five to PR

[Tracker]

The more I see of Outlaw, the more impressed I am with him. He seems to be smart enough to find the holes in the defense, he fights for the ball, has good hands, doesn't go down after the first tackle attempt and lord knows, he has the size and speed. The only reason I can think of for his availability is personal conduct issues(?)

[Brandon]

8 hours ago, Goalie said:

 

Not saying this guy is the next Matthews or Walker or even Greg Carr, who was pretty solid as a bomber but left and his career faded away but... who knows really.  He's got great size plus he's only 24. Maybe he gets a shot.. maybe he's released In a week. 

It's better then bringing in recycled garbage 

[wbbfan]

15 hours ago, pigseye said:

I wouldn't get too excited about Outlaw, he's slow with questionable hands, Gregg Carr 2.0.

4.47 40, shows good game speed in the arena clips especially coming out of the slot and shows great use of hands in the clips especially the catch drills. He may or may not be some thing, but speed and hands arent gonna be what hold him back. 

[wbbfan]

14 hours ago, Mark H. said:

Agreed. Plus also, DB's in the arena pretty much just keep the play in front of them

Cool name - though 

Thats pretty much what our defense does too. Soft cushion and jump routes. 

[Mark H.]

38 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

Thats pretty much what our defense does too. Soft cushion and jump routes. 

Still very different IMO 

[Dirty30]

Mathews wasn't overly fast either was he? He was just very aggressive going after the ball.

[wbbfan]

32 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

Still very different IMO 

Its arena, but the way afl teams cover compared to ours and to how most teams cover, the afl coverage is closer to our own. 

2 minutes ago, Dirty30 said:

Mathews wasn't overly fast either was he? He was just very aggressive going after the ball.

4.5 range, fastest enough to stick in the nfl though. 

[BigBlueFanatic]

As per the Winnipeg Sun

"I sure hope he's a receiver"

 - Matt Nichols on seeing the 6'6" Outlaw walk through the door

Edited September 21, 2016 by BigBlueFanatic

[mbrg]

5 hours ago, tracker said:

The more I see of Outlaw, the more impressed I am with him. He seems to be smart enough to find the holes in the defense, he fights for the ball, has good hands, doesn't go down after the first tackle attempt and lord knows, he has the size and speed. The only reason I can think of for his availability is personal conduct issues(?)

Cool fact: Most players in the CFL are here because they murdered someone.

[Atomic]

57 minutes ago, mbrg said:

Cool fact: Most players in the CFL are here because they murdered someone.

Source?

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, BigBlueFanatic said:

As per the Winnipeg Sun

"I sure hope he's a receiver"

 - Matt Nichols on seeing the 6'6" Outlaw walk through the door

haha. Imagine if he was a db though? trying to throw to dressler with outlaw in coverage. 

[kelownabomberfan]

25 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Source?

I thought I saw this on Huffpoo, I'll go check.

[mbrg]

25 minutes ago, Atomic said:

Source?

Rod Pederson

[Noeller]

8 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

haha. Imagine if he was a db though? trying to throw to dressler with outlaw in coverage. 

Good luck having that guy cover Dressler....he'd never be anywhere near him.

[wbbfan]

Just now, Noeller said:

Good luck having that guy cover Dressler....he'd never be anywhere near him.

speed isnt what puts you in position in coverage. its what closes the gap that allows you to make plays or make up for mistakes. Most dbs in the cfl are slower then the wrs and none maybe as fast as the fastest couple of guys. 

[17to85]

10 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

speed isnt what puts you in position in coverage. its what closes the gap that allows you to make plays or make up for mistakes. Most dbs in the cfl are slower then the wrs and none maybe as fast as the fastest couple of guys. 

I would like to see some evidence of this, dbs are always among the fastest guys on the team, Or at very least the quickest because a db who isn't quick isn't going to accomplish jack **** out there. 

[Noeller]

There's a reason why a lot of them are returners....

[wbbfan]

5 hours ago, 17to85 said:

I would like to see some evidence of this, dbs are always among the fastest guys on the team, Or at very least the quickest because a db who isn't quick isn't going to accomplish jack **** out there. 

quick step isnt the same thing as flat out speed. And a quick step to close, and get out of the back peddle is whats needed. Quickness, fluid hips but its a technical position. The 6 (5 and 6 are tied) fastest 40 times in nfl during the electronic timing era has 1 cornerback, 3 wrs and a return specialist whose listed as a wr/kr.  going back to mix timed eras (manual start electronic finish) times are close, with more wrs in total and a far greater standard deviation. You have guys running 4.7 and slower who are 6'5 230+ and fringe Tes. 

 

5 hours ago, Noeller said:

There's a reason why a lot of them are returners....

you think a lot of dbs are returners compared to wrs? Out of the top 10 punt returners in the cfl, 2 are dbs, on kick offs, 1. Tristan jackson in ott is 6th in punts and 7th in kick offs. And he doesnt get reps on D this year short of being used in a pinch.  

Edited September 22, 2016 by wbbfan

[blitzmore]

8 hours ago, wbbfan said:

quick step isnt the same thing as flat out speed. And a quick step to close, and get out of the back peddle is whats needed. Quickness, fluid hips but its a technical position. The 6 (5 and 6 are tied) fastest 40 times in nfl during the electronic timing era has 1 cornerback, 3 wrs and a return specialist whose listed as a wr/kr.  going back to mix timed eras (manual start electronic finish) times are close, with more wrs in total and a far greater standard deviation. You have guys running 4.7 and slower who are 6'5 230+ and fringe Tes. 

 

you think a lot of dbs are returners compared to wrs? Out of the top 10 punt returners in the cfl, 2 are dbs, on kick offs, 1. Tristan jackson in ott is 6th in punts and 7th in kick offs. And he doesnt get reps on D this year short of being used in a pinch.  

you think a lot of dbs are returners compared to wrs? Out of the top 10 punt returners in the cfl, 2 are dbs, on kick offs, 1. Tristan jackson in ott is 6th in punts and 7th in kick offs. And he doesnt get reps on D this year short of being used in a pinch.  

actually most kick returners are specialists who are listed as wrs, not many of them play wr on a regular basis.

 

[17to85]

11 hours ago, wbbfan said:

quick step isnt the same thing as flat out speed. And a quick step to close, and get out of the back peddle is whats needed. Quickness, fluid hips but its a technical position. The 6 (5 and 6 are tied) fastest 40 times in nfl during the electronic timing era has 1 cornerback, 3 wrs and a return specialist whose listed as a wr/kr.  going back to mix timed eras (manual start electronic finish) times are close, with more wrs in total and a far greater standard deviation. You have guys running 4.7 and slower who are 6'5 230+ and fringe Tes. 

 

you think a lot of dbs are returners compared to wrs? Out of the top 10 punt returners in the cfl, 2 are dbs, on kick offs, 1. Tristan jackson in ott is 6th in punts and 7th in kick offs. And he doesnt get reps on D this year short of being used in a pinch.  

and we are talking what? 100ths of a second differences? Which is inconsequential in the game of football. DBs are fast and there is a reason you see tons of tall receivers and so few tall dbs. DBs need to be fast to react, the receiver already knows what he's doing, the db needs to be able to react and keep up with that. Think about it like track and field, guys who win the 100m outside of Usain Bolt who is just a freak all tend to be shorter in comparison but as you get into the 200 and 400m you start to see taller players. Reason is pretty simple, long strides make a difference over a longer haul but short guys have more quickness, which in football is far more important. You make that quick move and the ball is in your hands and you're getting the first down. The reason you want a taller receiver is because you can get them to use their size to win battles, but if you have a bigger db they are probably going to struggle with the quick reactions more often than not. How often in football do you actually see a flat out 40 yard sprint? Those times don't mean a hell of a lot in the game of football. 

[LimJahey]

Playing DB is all about the hips and lower body strength, being able to transition from back pedal to full sprint. Different skill sets but i would say in a track meet the WRs would probably win by a bit. 

[Fan Boy]

I think this is not so clear cut as there are many DB (in all leagues) who are plenty fast but not great catchers. Football is great in that many different positions allow different physical skills to be utilised. Since returning kicks also involves catching I am not so surprised that receivers are common. It doesn't really bolster the argument that DB's are slower than receivers.

Someone who is totally dedicated to this argument needs to go through draft information for the last 100 years and determine with a low p value how statistically significant their results are, Or you could just walk away muttering to yourself. 

[LimJahey]

1 hour ago, Fan Boy said:

I think this is not so clear cut as there are many DB (in all leagues) who are plenty fast but not great catchers. Football is great in that many different positions allow different physical skills to be utilised. Since returning kicks also involves catching I am not so surprised that receivers are common. It doesn't really bolster the argument that DB's are slower than receivers.

Someone who is totally dedicated to this argument needs to go through draft information for the last 100 years and determine with a low p value how statistically significant their results are, Or you could just walk away muttering to yourself. 

The thing is that typically speed isn't the biggest factor. As kids, the fastest players play at a skill positions, the guys with nice hands and height (lanky) play receiver and the short quick guys with good lower half play DB. Obviously there are short guys who play REC and tall guys who play DB but that's typically not the norm as taller guys are typically not as coordinated and can't backpeddle as well as smaller players.

Edited September 22, 2016 by LimJahey

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

and we are talking what? 100ths of a second differences? Which is inconsequential in the game of football. DBs are fast and there is a reason you see tons of tall receivers and so few tall dbs. DBs need to be fast to react, the receiver already knows what he's doing, the db needs to be able to react and keep up with that. Think about it like track and field, guys who win the 100m outside of Usain Bolt who is just a freak all tend to be shorter in comparison but as you get into the 200 and 400m you start to see taller players. Reason is pretty simple, long strides make a difference over a longer haul but short guys have more quickness, which in football is far more important. You make that quick move and the ball is in your hands and you're getting the first down. The reason you want a taller receiver is because you can get them to use their size to win battles, but if you have a bigger db they are probably going to struggle with the quick reactions more often than not. How often in football do you actually see a flat out 40 yard sprint? Those times don't mean a hell of a lot in the game of football. 

you asked for evidence what more would you like? Do you have any? the 40 is the going rate of measurement for speed in football and has been for ages. Sure some guys are track fast and some guys are football fast.  But remove the abnormalities and you have the average.  Do you have any idea how many track and field stars play football and play db vs wr? When your the fastest guy on the field the vast majority of the time you are put at wr all the way up. 

2 hours ago, Fan Boy said:

I think this is not so clear cut as there are many DB (in all leagues) who are plenty fast but not great catchers. Football is great in that many different positions allow different physical skills to be utilised. Since returning kicks also involves catching I am not so surprised that receivers are common. It doesn't really bolster the argument that DB's are slower than receivers.

Someone who is totally dedicated to this argument needs to go through draft information for the last 100 years and determine with a low p value how statistically significant their results are, Or you could just walk away muttering to yourself. 

Db hands isnt really the case it used to be. Watch the tip drills in any camp or practice. Look at all the catches weve made this year in the secondary. The difference is having the ball throw to you, and trying to create an opportunity or taking advantage of one that wasnt intended. College wr's who drop too many passed dont just get sent to play corner. 

[17to85]

8 minutes ago, wbbfan said:

you asked for evidence what more would you like? Do you have any? the 40 is the going rate of measurement for speed in football and has been for ages. Sure some guys are track fast and some guys are football fast.  But remove the abnormalities and you have the average.  Do you have any idea how many track and field stars play football and play db vs wr? When your the fastest guy on the field the vast majority of the time you are put at wr all the way up. 

but taking the 5 best times isn't really anything to do with average. the fastest of the fast at a skill position? Sure I'll buy that, but rank and file I get outside those elite few there's more dbs than receivers with speed. Also I really don't like using NFL numbers when speaking on a CFL forum. Those super fast receivers are few and far between up here and we get a lot of dbs that simply don't have the height requirement so it probably skews things in their favour in this league.