Johnny Adams Trade to Ticats

[wbbfan]

2 hours ago, Noeller said:

jim bender 

 

✔ @bendersun

I guess Johnny Adams paid the price for not going after that fumble in #bombers loss. That and failing to cover receivers.

 

jim bender ‏@bendersun  7m7 minutes ago

Hey #bombers, if you're gonna make trades, try getting some Cdn receivers who can start.

 

what a troll. who is trading starting ni's especially wrs right now?

Not overly surprised by this trade, glad we got some thing for him and cleared up our log jam a bit at the same time. Would have preferred a draft pick or some thing. Hope the neg lister is decent. I too hate that the neglist names are put out at all any more.

id give hammer an A on this one. And a B- for us. 

[Brandon]

I guess it's better then nothing... I'd rather they would of picked up a draft pick instead since receivers are dime a dozen. 

[TBURGESS]

An all star last year for a neg list player. Basically, a starter for a box of tape. Shows how far Adams fell this year in the coaches eyes. Whether that's from injury or sophomore jinx or if he played way above his head last year, I don't know.

I don't get the whole NFL thing. After last years performance, maybe. After this years, not a chance. 

We lose some salary from this years SMS, which wouldn't have happened if we cut him. Hamilton gets better in the secondary where they really need to get better. Neg list guy might turn into something. IMO, Hamilton gets more out of this trade than we do.

[Mike]

12 hours ago, Brandon said:

I guess it's better then nothing... I'd rather they would of picked up a draft pick instead since receivers are dime a dozen. 

If McKay signs and becomes the next Roosevelt, is he still a dime a dozen?

[Bigblue204]

15 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

An all star last year for a neg list player. Basically, a starter for a box of tape. Shows how far Adams fell this year in the coaches eyes. Whether that's from injury or sophomore jinx or if he played way above his head last year, I don't know.

I don't get the whole NFL thing. After last years performance, maybe. After this years, not a chance. 

We lose some salary from this years SMS, which wouldn't have happened if we cut him. Hamilton gets better in the secondary where they really need to get better. Neg list guy might turn into something. IMO, Hamilton gets more out of this trade than we do.

You're assuming you need to have a stellar year to have any chance to get into the NFL and that's just not true. He is apparently going to try the NFL again, so Hamilton gets better now, for 2 months. We got something for a guy who is not going to sign another CFL contract until after the NFL options dry out. It's really not that bad of deal, when you consider both the bombers and hamilton know he's not going to resign with anyone this year.

[Eternal optimist]

This trade reminds me of when we traded Alex Hall to the Riders for their 2013 GC run. We aren't going to re-sign Adams and he just lost his starting job to Frederick. Got something for nothing with a player that will likely bolt to the NFL next season.

So I know we got the rights to McKay, how much longer do players usually bounce around the NFL before they come north? Anyone have any idea? Is this an effort to improve our current roster (i.e. this year), or is this a more long-term acquisition?

[Noeller]

3 minutes ago, Eternal optimist said:

This trade reminds me of when we traded Alex Hall to the Riders for their 2013 GC run. We aren't going to re-sign Adams and he just lost his starting job to Frederick. Got something for nothing with a player that will likely bolt to the NFL next season.

So I know we got the rights to McKay, how much longer do players usually bounce around the NFL before they come north? Anyone have any idea? Is this an effort to improve our current roster (i.e. this year), or is this a more long-term acquisition?

Tait's daily roundup piece from yesterday suggested that McKay is essentially a FA signing for next year...

[Nash00]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

An all star last year for a neg list player. Basically, a starter for a box of tape. Shows how far Adams fell this year in the coaches eyes. Whether that's from injury or sophomore jinx or if he played way above his head last year, I don't know.

I don't get the whole NFL thing. After last years performance, maybe. After this years, not a chance. 

We lose some salary from this years SMS, which wouldn't have happened if we cut him. Hamilton gets better in the secondary where they really need to get better. Neg list guy might turn into something. IMO, Hamilton gets more out of this trade than we do.

You could also look at it as we identified his replacement and he wasn't going to be re-signed anyways, so we were able to get value back as opposed to nothing if we let him walk.

It all depends on what his internal value is for the remainder of this year vs. the return on the trade (McKay). If McKay never signs, we obviously lose. But as Mike alluded to above, if he ends up being a player for us then it's excellent asset management by Walters.

The real wrench here is if we sustain an injury to one of our CB's and don't have adequate depth to replace them.

[JCon]

Could also be a bit of goodwill gesture. Not going to play here, so he gets reps in HAM before trying out for the NFL. Not that Walters would be that benevolent but might have played a factor.

 

[TBURGESS]

I really like Fredericks and am glad that he's going to be starting. I wanted him to DI for the last few weeks. I think we now have the best group of DB's we've had all year. I'd like this trade more if Roberts wasn't on the 6 game IR.

An injury shortened, average season in the CFL, won't do Adams any favors with his NFL dream. It's more likely than not that he re-signs in the CFL next year.

It comes down to if you'd rather have depth at CB for the rest of the year or a Neg list player you might sign next year. I'd rather have the depth and assume our scouts can fill the receiver spot next year. 

 

 

[Bigblue204]

8 minutes ago, TBURGESS said:

I really like Fredericks and am glad that he's going to be starting. I wanted him to DI for the last few weeks. I think we now have the best group of DB's we've had all year. I'd like this trade more if Roberts wasn't on the 6 game IR.

An injury shortened, average season in the CFL, won't do Adams any favors with his NFL dream. It's more likely than not that he re-signs in the CFL next year.

It comes down to if you'd rather have depth at CB for the rest of the year or a Neg list player you might sign next year. I'd rather have the depth and assume our scouts can fill the receiver spot next year. 

 

 

Certainly an arguement to be made for keeping the depth. But they need all the help they can get when it comes to finding Rec. Haven't had much success with that during Walters stay.

[TBURGESS]

30 minutes ago, Bigblue204 said:

Certainly an argument to be made for keeping the depth. But they need all the help they can get when it comes to finding Rec. Haven't had much success with that during Walters stay.

Dressler, Smith, Denmark, Adams and sometimes Harris aren't bad at all. They'd look even better if they didn't have so much injury time off. 

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

If McKay signs and becomes the next Roosevelt, is he still a dime a dozen?

*If* McKay was projected to be a sure fire player then why would Hamilton trade him?

I would think that a draft pick regardless of the round would be of much better potential value then an import receiver in which you can get on your own easily. 

[Mr Dee]

2 minutes ago, Brandon said:

*If* McKay was projected to be a sure fire player then why would Hamilton trade him?

I would think that a draft pick regardless of the round would be of much better potential value then an import receiver in which you can get on your own easily. 

What you say has merit, but there could be the word of a scout in there that has offset any other scenario..

One of these days, the Bombers are going to score a highlight receiver...right?

[Atomic]

11 minutes ago, Brandon said:

*If* McKay was projected to be a sure fire player then why would Hamilton trade him?

I would think that a draft pick regardless of the round would be of much better potential value then an import receiver in which you can get on your own easily. 

They would trade him because they need DBs right now.

[Mike]

13 minutes ago, Brandon said:

*If* McKay was projected to be a sure fire player then why would Hamilton trade him?

I would think that a draft pick regardless of the round would be of much better potential value then an import receiver in which you can get on your own easily. 

Why did Saskatchewan trade Chris Williams to Hamilton or Ja'Gared Davis to Calgary?

Deal from a position of need on your negotiation list to acquire an asset that helps you out.

Even if McKay is great, how likely is it that he's going to get an opportunity to show that immediately when he's fighting for a spot with Tasker, Toliver, Fantuz, Chiles and Owens?

[Nash00]

41 minutes ago, Brandon said:

*If* McKay was projected to be a sure fire player then why would Hamilton trade him?

I would think that a draft pick regardless of the round would be of much better potential value then an import receiver in which you can get on your own easily. 

I would sooner take a shot on a neg list guy that our scouting staff obviously has had their eye on over a 4th or lower round pick who has a significantly less chance to make the roster.

[Bigblue204]

1 hour ago, TBURGESS said:

Dressler, Smith, Denmark, Adams and sometimes Harris aren't bad at all. They'd look even better if they didn't have so much injury time off. 

true, but none of those listed were found via scouting. Which is what I was referring to. But regardless I'd like to see that line up at some point this season.

[17to85]

55 minutes ago, Brandon said:

*If* McKay was projected to be a sure fire player then why would Hamilton trade him?

I would think that a draft pick regardless of the round would be of much better potential value then an import receiver in which you can get on your own easily. 

Hamilton has lots of receivers as is and needs dbs for this year cause thanks to the shitty shitty east they got a chance? I mean it's really simple roster management. They believe they have an excess of receivers so they trade a neg list guy for a defensive back that will help them this season. If you could get import receivers on your own easily then we wouldn't be in a situation where we had to go FA shopping and then bring Denmark off the beach when a couple injuries hit. This team hasn't exactly had aces from their receiver recruiting. 

[mbrg]

20 hours ago, Jpan85 said:

I feel like that scouting reports for the majority of guys in the CFL look very similar to his

Tidbits from one receivers NFL scouting report:

Acceleration - Does not explode off the line or out of cuts

Agility - Does not show much quick burst

Hands - can be too inconsistent here, .... Lacks concentration. Some drops are caused by him tensing up before taking a hit from defenders. Will let the ball get into his body too often.

Route Running - very raw, .... Does not have the speed to plant and explode, .... Can get sloppy at times and will round off cuts. Will get too high at times in his breaks, making the route easy to diagnose by defenders

Speed - does not possess sprinter speed. He is a long strider who takes time to get to full speed.

Any guesses?

 

Highlight for answer: Julio Jones, 6th overall pick of the 2011 NFL draft

 

In other words, there isn't a single scouting report ever made that doesn't contain lots of negative.

[Guest J5V]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

Hamilton has lots of receivers as is and needs dbs for this year cause thanks to the shitty shitty east they got a chance? I mean it's really simple roster management. They believe they have an excess of receivers so they trade a neg list guy for a defensive back that will help them this season. If you could get import receivers on your own easily then we wouldn't be in a situation where we had to go FA shopping and then bring Denmark off the beach when a couple injuries hit. This team hasn't exactly had aces from their receiver recruiting. 

I used to give it to Walters and the scouts pretty good about their inability to bring in Olinemen but it takes time and we saw this year that some of their efforts from the past came to fruition RE:Bond, Hardrick. I'm hoping the same happens with the receivers if not this year, next.

Edited September 29, 2016 by J5V

[wbbfan]

3 hours ago, mbrg said:

Tidbits from one receivers NFL scouting report:

Acceleration - Does not explode off the line or out of cuts

Agility - Does not show much quick burst

Hands - can be too inconsistent here, .... Lacks concentration. Some drops are caused by him tensing up before taking a hit from defenders. Will let the ball get into his body too often.

Route Running - very raw, .... Does not have the speed to plant and explode, .... Can get sloppy at times and will round off cuts. Will get too high at times in his breaks, making the route easy to diagnose by defenders

Speed - does not possess sprinter speed. He is a long strider who takes time to get to full speed.

Any guesses?

 

Highlight for answer: Julio Jones, 6th overall pick of the 2011 NFL draft

 

In other words, there isn't a single scouting report ever made that doesn't contain lots of negative.

The old scouting tendency to put a shine on dark horse low prospects and throw as much mud on highly ranked / anticipated ones as possible. Finding a dark horse can make your career, where as missing on a high pick can cost it. 

[Brandon]

I've yet to read a scouting report where they ever compliment a QB's arm.   Nearly every time it's weak arm...

[wbbfan]

24 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I've yet to read a scouting report where they ever compliment a QB's arm.   Nearly every time it's weak arm...

It used to be the case that nfl looked at arm strength first but that was ages ago. currently and for the last 10+ years its accuracy, tenure as a starting qb etc. Guys like our PR qb MBT are praised for strong arms. mike vick, peyton manning, praised for super arm strength. Michael bishop too. Most nfl starting qbs arent considered to have weak arm strength.  But for a long time the cfl has gone to touch /accuracy passers who are experience in throwing out of the gun/pistol to spread formations. 

There is a considerable difference in velocity when your taking a drop step and throwing mostly timing routes when your back foot hits for the drop count the play was designed for and when your throwing from set feet / stand still too. The nfl has much better field coverage on defense while the offense has much less catching targets then we do. The result is in the cfl you can throw a number of different kinds of passes to the same route. Where as in the nfl, you have far less options and have to be able to make each throw consistently. A guy like kevin glenn can get away with some side arm action throwing a 10+ yard out and use touch to lead his target to the side line. Putting the ball out of the reach of the defender and still having plenty of room on the side line. In the nfl, that pass would be thrown well out of bounds. It would have to be a bullet pass to a smaller window, and would have to clear a much bigger DE so it would need a higher release point. 

A cannon of an arm isnt by any means the most important attribute a QB has, nfl or other wise. But it is a limiting factor. More so then here. 

[mbrg]

15 hours ago, wbbfan said:

The old scouting tendency to put a shine on dark horse low prospects and throw as much mud on highly ranked / anticipated ones as possible. Finding a dark horse can make your career, where as missing on a high pick can cost it. 

They now give a grade out of 10 next to each draft pick on the NFL website, and provide a breakdown of each grade range.

Carson Wentz got a 6.5 out of ten.  So I looked at what 6.5 means.  Something along the lines of "NFL starter with potential All-Pro ability".

In my world, that's a 9.  A guy with All-Pro ability in the NFL scores a 6.5?  That is the best way of illustrating how overly negative those scouting reports are.  10 is reserved for the greatest player in NFL history apparently.  Aaron Rodgers wouldn't grade out as a 10 during his MVP season by those standards.

Peyton Manning's report probably said "appears to overthink things" as a knock on him.

Anyways, comments like "questionable                     " should always be followed by "compared to the greatest players in NFL history", since that's what they actually mean.