Bombers at Lions WSF GDT

[Dascow]

45 minutes ago, 17to85 said:

History means nothing because it's not something that has a large enough sample size. How many kicks did Medlock make from 50 with 10 yards to spare? I bet it was quite a few. The guy has the leg strength to hit from that distance, like I said before, on that kick he didn't get the distance he needed and that's all she wrote but it's not like it's impossible to kick the ball that far in a dome. 

If they'd gambled on 3rd and 4 and not made it we'd all be sitting here going "Y U NO KICK?!?! MEDLOCK HAS TEH LEG!!11!!!"

I sure wouldn't be.  I know that there are always some people that act like that, but I am not one of them.

If they wouldn't have made those 4 yards I would have thought nothing about O'Shea and I would have focused on Richie Hall and the defence that crapped the bed.

O'Shea made a bad decision.  The kick wasn't even close. Again, I don't think I have ever seen a coach attempt a 61 yard field goal when there was still plenty of time on the clock. A good coach has to play the odds better than that.

Just my opinion.

[Jacquie]

And if we had gone for it on 3rd & 4 and not made there would have been a lot of armchair coaches saying he should have tried the FG because Medlock has the leg. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Jacquie

[blitzmore]

Don't agree....One of the only ones thinking about kicking a 61 yard field goal with 36 seconds left was O'Shea.

[HardCoreBlue]

1 hour ago, 17to85 said:

History means nothing because it's not something that has a large enough sample size. How many kicks did Medlock make from 50 with 10 yards to spare? I bet it was quite a few. The guy has the leg strength to hit from that distance, like I said before, on that kick he didn't get the distance he needed and that's all she wrote but it's not like it's impossible to kick the ball that far in a dome. 

If they'd gambled on 3rd and 4 and not made it we'd all be sitting here going "Y U NO KICK?!?! MEDLOCK HAS TEH LEG!!11!!!"

Nope, not this guy. 

If we don't make the first down, my disappointment lay with why we don't make the first down. No more no less.

Next year is our year and fast approaching 30 years saying that. #can'tlosehopethough

[Mark H.]

A 61 yard field goal? I mean I know we like having debates on here - but come on people.

 

[Blueandgold]

1 minute ago, Mark H. said:

A 61 yard field goal? I mean I know we like having debates on here - but come on people.

 

Right. No one in their right mind would argue that was the right move.

Maybe, and just maybe over a Hail Mary if it was the last play of the game or 3rd and 30 but that's it.

[SpeedFlex27]

3 hours ago, 17to85 said:

That's because the only time you actually try a field goal from that far is when you have to score the field goal to win with no time left so the situation doesn't come up too often. Some kickers don't have the leg to do it either but we know that Medlock has the leg to put it 60 yards, he didn't on that particular kick but he has kicked it that distance plenty of times before so it's not like it's a can't be done thing, it just didn't happen this time. The way the offense was sputtering to end the game third down was no guarantee either and then we still have to most likely kick a long field goal anyway. 

O'Shea gave the best kicker in the league a chance to win, it didn't happen and we move onto next year. 

Some chance to win? What? No!

[HardCoreBlue]

14 minutes ago, Jacquie said:

And if we had gone for it on 3rd & 4 and not made there would have been a lot of armchair coaches saying he should have tried the FG because Medlock has the leg. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

One can be disappointed in the play call and not be a armchair coach. It can happen.

[Blueandgold]

The best part about that field goal attempt is: That even if we make that kick, who thinks we actually stop BC? Jennings carves up our D and gets into field goal range easy with 30 seconds on the clock.

[Tracker]

42 minutes ago, Mark H. said:

A 61 yard field goal? I mean I know we like having debates on here - but come on people.

 

How dare you inject reality into this!! The bottom line: coaches are hired and paid to make the right decisions. O'Shea made the decision which failed and cost the team the game and the season. Richie is responsible for the mistakes of his charges, and so is O'Shea.

[SpeedFlex27]

1 hour ago, Jacquie said:

And if we had gone for it on 3rd & 4 and not made there would have been a lot of armchair coaches saying he should have tried the FG because Medlock has the leg. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Disagree. FGs aren't normally tried from 61 yards so I don't believe the coach would have been questioned if he gambled. Thirty six seconds left on 3rd & 4 you go for it. If you don't make it then okay you tried the most logical & statistically highest percentage attempt which is to gamble & not kick. if this was the last play then yes you try the FG. That wasn't the time to do that. O'Shea should have put more faith in his offense to get that first down,

[Mr Dee]

O'Shea said he went through 'the process' about what you know of the situation, then he throws the flag..to buy more time. LaPolice has a play ready anyway it goes. O'Shea believes Medlock can hit the long ball.."he's got the leg", he's the best kicker in CFL  history"..so he goes to Medlock. It was not a disrespect at all to Nichols. They want him back. Nichols acts like he'll be back. They believe in O'Shea, even if some fans don't. 

[Tracker]

1 minute ago, Mr Dee said:

O'Shea said he went through 'the process' about what you know of the situation, then he throws the flag..to buy more time. LaPolice has a play ready anyway it goes. O'Shea believes Medlock can hit the long ball.."he's got the leg", he's the best kicker in CFL  history"..so he goes to Medlock. It was not a disrespect at all to Nichols. They want him back. Nichols acts like he'll be back. They believe in O'Shea, even if some fans don't. 

Was there not a post-game interview where Medlock said that he'd told O'Shea that his max was 57 yards?

[SpeedFlex27]

I'd never even consider that the Bombers should have tried a 61 yard FG if the Bombers didn't get the first down. I'd say 99% of the other fans would be the same. That the right play was to kick the FG? Never. Now at 58 yards with the game on the line on the last play of the game then yes it's the only play as it would have had a better chance than a Hail Mary. But not 61 yards with 36 seconds left on a third & four. The only choice was to go for it. Not kick. There's more luck involved than skill on a kick that far.

Edited November 15, 2016 by SpeedFlex27

[mbrg]

3 hours ago, Dascow said:

He made that kick out doors mbrg with a wind at his back. There's a big difference between the two situations. And history agrees with me.

If there's 36 seconds left in the game and your that far out, you try and get the 4 yards.  That's a no brainer, or it should be.

61 yards is too far of a kick to ask of even the best kicker, (which I believe Medlock is.), in a dome.

If you're going to quote my whole post you also might as well read the whole thing.

3 hours ago, mbrg said:

With over a half minute left, I'm still calling a passing play.

I didn't agree with the call, but I'm also not going to pretend Medlock kicking 61 yards is preposterous.  He will have tried a bunch of distances in warm up.  He might have hit a 55 yarder already that day with leg to spare when the cameras weren't on.

History agrees with you?  What does that even mean?  Prior to 1903, history agreed with people who thought humans could and would never fly.  It's obviously a long difficult kick.  He had to hit it perfect.  He didn't.  Given his performance this year and in his career, I understand why the coach would put his faith in him.  He's hit a lot of kicks perfectly in his career.

The reason, once again, that I'm passing in that situation is the time left on the clock, not because of history.  I have no trouble believing Medlock can make history.  He's already the best kicker in league history.

 

[Tracker]

From Arash Madani on 3downnation:

Madani: You can’t do that Mike O’Shea

Posted on November 14, 2016 by Arash Madani // 5 Comments

You just can’t do that, Mike O’Shea.

You just can’t.

You can’t send your kicker out – no matter how lights out, how dominant, how game-changing he’s been – for a 61-yard field goal attempt, with your season on the line.

You have third and four with 36 seconds left? You go for it. You send out your quarterback, who turned your season around and had completed eight of his last nine throws. You send out your tailback, who remains one of the league’s most bruising threats, who rarely gets taken down on the first smack of contact. You have Ryan Smith, money all afternoon. You went out and gave Weston Dressler big money in the off-season for moments like these.

You take one glance over and you see that for the first time this season Justin Medlock has reached for a tee, and you have to realize this is going to go awry. You know in your heart of hearts when you see that, even this ask is too much for the best kicker the CFL has had since Lawrence Tynes had a cup of coffee here more than a decade ago.

You make that decision, and here’s what happens: going into the off-season suddenly your players may have doubt for the first time. You now allow them to wonder that perhaps the stoic, unwavering coach, who hadn’t flinched in three years suddenly panicked.

[SpeedFlex27]

This is like Trump & Hillary. You see one POV & that's it.  Depends on what fans think of O'Shea.

[Dascow]

4 minutes ago, mbrg said:

If you're going to quote my whole post you also might as well read the whole thing.

I didn't agree with the call, but I'm also not going to pretend Medlock kicking 61 yards is preposterous.  He will have tried a bunch of distances in warm up.  He might have hit a 55 yarder already that day with leg to spare when the cameras weren't on.

History agrees with you?  What does that even mean?  Prior to 1903, history agreed with people who thought humans could and would never fly.  It's obviously a long difficult kick.  He had to hit it perfect.  He didn't.  Given his performance this year and in his career, I understand why the coach would put his faith in him.  He's hit a lot of kicks perfectly in his career.

The reason, once again, that I'm passing in that situation is the time left on the clock, not because of history.  I have no trouble believing Medlock can make history.  He's already the best kicker in league history.

 

I did read the whole thing mbrg. Your splitting hairs by saying it isn't preposterous to ask him to kick a 61 yard field goal.

The reality is, asking a guy to kick a 61 yard field goal when there is a better option is not smart football because the odds are not on your side.

The reality is, in the history of the CFL only one man has kicked a field goal more than 60 yards and that was with a wind at Taylor field.

Was it preposterous? Kind of, since it's only been done one time in the history of the CFL.

If there's no time on the clock sure, you take any desperate attempt that you can. But with time left on the clock it's a bad decision to try and kick the second longest field goal in CFL history when all you need is 4 yards for a first down.

[kelownabomberfan]

Finally sobering up and pulling out of the depression of yesterday.  Just have to get this out of my system..,

ok, all better now.  Here's to 2017!!  All the way baby!

[MOBomberFan]

11 hours ago, tracker said:

Was there not a post-game interview where Medlock said that he'd told O'Shea that his max was 57 yards?

No, in fact Medlock said he had hit a 70 yarder off a tee two years ago. Who knows where or in what conditions though. 

[Mark H.]

11 hours ago, tracker said:

How dare you inject reality into this!! The bottom line: coaches are hired and paid to make the right decisions. O'Shea made the decision which failed and cost the team the game and the season. Richie is responsible for the mistakes of his charges, and so is O'Shea.

And we don't get to have nice things 

[Fatty Liver]

11 hours ago, SpeedFlex27 said:

I'd never even consider that the Bombers should have tried a 61 yard FG if the Bombers didn't get the first down. I'd say 99% of the other fans would be the same. That the right play was to kick the FG? Never. Now at 58 yards with the game on the line on the last play of the game then yes it's the only play as it would have had a better chance than a Hail Mary. But not 61 yards with 36 seconds left on a third & four. The only choice was to go for it. Not kick. There's more luck involved than skill on a kick that far.

All of the longest FG's in CFL history have occurred at Taylor Field and fair to say that they were probably all wind assisted.

Longest Field Goal

• 62 yards - Paul McCallum, (October 27, 2001 at Taylor Field)
• 60 yards - Dave Ridgway, (September 6, 1987 at Taylor Field)
• 59 yards - Dave Cutler, (October 28, 1970 at Taylor Field)
• 59 yards - Paul Watson, (July 12, 1981 at Taylor Field)
• 58 yards - seven players, seven times

[bearpants]

22 minutes ago, Throw Long Bannatyne said:

All of the longest FG's in CFL history have occurred at Taylor Field and fair to say that they were probably all wind assisted.

Longest Field Goal

• 62 yards - Paul McCallum, (October 27, 2001 at Taylor Field)
• 60 yards - Dave Ridgway, (September 6, 1987 at Taylor Field)
• 59 yards - Dave Cutler, (October 28, 1970 at Taylor Field)
• 59 yards - Paul Watson, (July 12, 1981 at Taylor Field)
• 58 yards - seven players, seven times

Except for the guys who played for the Riders... they were probably against the wind... since we all know the Riders breed the best players in CFL history...

[Fatty Liver]

4 minutes ago, bearpants said:

Except for the guys who played for the Riders... they were probably against the wind... since we all know the Riders breed the best players in CFL history...

Three of those kickers were Riders, so that goes without question.

[kelownabomberfan]

Well I did see Medlock nail a 58 yarder (I think) against Montreal on opening game day.  But I can't remember if he had any wind behind him.  I do remember the ball clearing the bar with a yard or two to spare too.