Bombers at Lions WSF GDT

[Noeller]

Teammates say he regularly hit from 60 in practice (I know I know, practice...) and hit at least one from nearly 70. But again, we really need to move on from the whole thing... 

[Mr Dee]

And...

Tait? A day later I'm even less sure about what I would have done as Bombers coach. 
Let's start with Medlock says he would make 1/3 from 61...

And..

@TroyWestwood @JimTothSports Medlock said he could make that 1/3 times. Of course he can hit it, but only 33% of the time.

 

16 minutes ago, Noeller said:

But again, we really need to move on from the whole thing... 

That's a thought, but it's not going to happen. It's part of the folklore now, and part of O'Shea's legacy and Medlock's leg*acy. We'll be discussing this all off season...(sigh)

We just have to look at it as a failed play...which it was, a third down stop, not unlike we've put on other teams. 

As was mentioned by Adrenaline_X, it was a play to win...

Would I have done it? Probably not. For one, I don't have the cojones for that decision. O'Shea's the leader. He does.

[bearpants]

I'm actually a little surprised Medlock said he'd ONLY make 1/3... I kinda thought he might say he can make it any day, any time... I think he has that confidence just wouldn't say it publicly... 

[Goalie]

I think him kicking with a tee might have messed the kick up a bit. He was pretty short so obviously he didn't get all of it...

[Dascow]

This year in the CFL teams in 3rd and 4 situations were 3 of 12 (25%) = Real statistic.

Medlock said he could make that 1/3 times = Not a real statistic.

Why are people comparing them as if they are? lol

[Mr Dee]

14 minutes ago, Dascow said:

This year in the CFL teams in 3rd and 4 situations were 3 of 12 (25%) = Real statistic.

Medlock said he could make that 1/3 times = Not a real statistic.

Why are people comparing them as if they are? lol

There's no lol. 

Medlock, one of, if not the best kicker in CFL history, tells me as a Coach, that he can do it, and, you've seen him do it, then that's a real enough statistic to me.

[Blueandgold]

I brought it up earlier and I'll say it again, even if we make that kick, I wouldn't bet against BC making it into field goal range with 30 seconds or so to play with.

[mbrg]

18 minutes ago, Dascow said:

This year in the CFL teams in 3rd and 4 situations were 3 of 12 (25%) = Real statistic.

Medlock said he could make that 1/3 times = Not a real statistic.

Why are people comparing them as if they are? lol

"History is on my side" is also not a real statistic.

[Dascow]

Just now, Mr Dee said:

There's no lol. 

Medlock, one of, if not the best kicker in CFL history, tells me as a Coach, that he can do it, and, you've seen him do it, then that's a real enough statistic to me.

Um What?

It's not a real statistic. 

If it is, please verify it for me.

According to CFL.ca Medlock has never made a field goal from 61 yards out. So if anything the stat would be 0 for how ever many times he has attempted it.

The 3 of 12 is a verifiable stat.  It was accumulated from actual results in actual games.

The 1 of 3 is just something that Medlock said he could probably do. It's not a real stat.

 

Just now, mbrg said:

"History is on my side" is also not a real statistic.

I never made the claim that it was.

[Rich]

I think I would give Medlock the benefit of the doubt on his own stat based on what he has been able to do in practice and messing around  

Just because it is not an official CFL stat, it doesn't mean Medlock doesn't know what he is capable of. 

Interesting perspective on TSN1290 this morning. Westwood said as a kicker he wouldn't lie when asked whether or not he thought he could make a kick.  He wouldn't want to be the one who lost the game if he missed  

They questioned the decision to use a tee on the kick.  But all felt he didn't get a full kick on the ball and that it was well within his usual range. 

[bearpants]

14 minutes ago, Dascow said:

According to CFL.ca Medlock has never made a field goal from 61 yards out. So if anything the stat would be 0 for how ever many times he has attempted it.

So what you're saying is he's never missed a 61 yarder... 

9 minutes ago, Rich said:

Interesting perspective on TSN1290 this morning. Westwood said as a kicker he wouldn't lie when asked whether or not he thought he could make a kick.  He wouldn't want to be the one who lost the game if he missed  

That makes sense... if a kicker did not think he could make the kick that would mess with his psyche going into the kick too...

[Dascow]

2 minutes ago, bearpants said:

So what you're saying is he's never missed a 61 yarder... 

 

No. I'm saying the opposite...

[HardCoreBlue]

19 minutes ago, Rich said:

I think I would give Medlock the benefit of the doubt on his own stat based on what he has been able to do in practice and messing around  

Just because it is not an official CFL stat, it doesn't mean Medlock doesn't know what he is capable of. 

Interesting perspective on TSN1290 this morning. Westwood said as a kicker he wouldn't lie when asked whether or not he thought he could make a kick.  He wouldn't want to be the one who lost the game if he missed  

They questioned the decision to use a tee on the kick.  But all felt he didn't get a full kick on the ball and that it was well within his usual range. 

Shocking, an athlete having confidence he can do something, whether it's realistic to achieve in a game or not. In this particular case a 61 yard field goal that you have to hit perfect as a line drive and because of that, risk it will be blocked at the line of scrimmage going at game speed.

Would Nichols have been given the benefit of the doubt? How many times do you see a QB 'encouraging' his coach to go for it on 3rd down and how many times do you see a coach ignore it?

I'm wondering if Nichols had any type of conversation with MOS to go for it on 3rd down?

What's done is done, I was over it the same day it happened. 2017 will be our year.  

[Dascow]

33 minutes ago, Rich said:

I think I would give Medlock the benefit of the doubt on his own stat based on what he has been able to do in practice and messing around  

Just because it is not an official CFL stat, it doesn't mean Medlock doesn't know what he is capable of. 

Interesting perspective on TSN1290 this morning. Westwood said as a kicker he wouldn't lie when asked whether or not he thought he could make a kick.  He wouldn't want to be the one who lost the game if he missed  

They questioned the decision to use a tee on the kick.  But all felt he didn't get a full kick on the ball and that it was well within his usual range. 

But Rich, if I said to you, prove that Medlock can hit 1 out of every 3 from 61 yards, how would you do that?

All it is, is a claim.

However, the 3 in 12 is a verifiable fact.

In other words if you asked me to prove it, I could by showing you every game that was played this year.  I wouldn't because I am way too lazy, but I could because that fact is verifiable.

All I am saying is that you can't compare the 2 because one is a fact and the other is a claim that can not be taken as a fact.

[Rich]

24 minutes ago, Dascow said:

But Rich, if I said to you, prove that Medlock can hit 1 out of every 3 from 61 yards, how would you do that?

All it is, is a claim.

However, the 3 in 12 is a verifiable fact.

In other words if you asked me to prove it, I could by showing you every game that was played this year.  I wouldn't because I am way too lazy, but I could because that fact is verifiable.

All I am saying is that you can't compare the 2 because one is a fact and the other is a claim that can not be taken as a fact.

Because it doesn't have to be proven to me or you.  O'Shea makes the decision.  O'Shea sees what Medlock can do in practice.  We don't.  He has an immense amount of information at his disposal to make the decision that we as fans don't.

If Medlock says he can hit 1 out of 3 (and I don't even know where that claim came from) and O'Shea has seen that in practice, then the decision making is sound.

And I'm not even convinced the kick was the right decision.  But after hearing Westwood's thoughts on it this morning ... a retired kicker who has played the game ... I put more weight into his opinion than mine or yours.

[Tracker]

On 1290 radio this afternoon, Darren Bauming said that Medlock had told O'Shea that his limit was 57 yards.

[Dascow]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

Because it doesn't have to be proven to me or you.  O'Shea makes the decision.  O'Shea sees what Medlock can do in practice.  We don't.  He has an immense amount of information at his disposal to make the decision that we as fans don't.

If Medlock says he can hit 1 out of 3 (and I don't even know where that claim came from) and O'Shea has seen that in practice, then the decision making is sound.

And I'm not even convinced the kick was the right decision.  But after hearing Westwood's thoughts on it this morning ... a retired kicker who has played the game ... I put more weight into his opinion than mine or yours.

But that's my point.

You're talking about opinions and I am talking about facts.

People are acting like the 3 out of 12 on 3rd down stat and the claim that Medlock made that he could probably hit 1 of 3 are equal. They are not.

That's what I am trying to get at. One is a verifiable fact and the other is just a claim made by the kicker.

So we as fans can't be trotting out that 1 in 3 number as if it means anything, because it doesn't. Where as the 3 in 12 stat is a fact.

 

(This part is my opinion)

The decision on O'Shea's part was also not sound.

How do I know that? 

1. Because Medlock missed the kick by a mile.  He wasn't even close.

2. Medlock has never in his career made a 61 yard field goal.

3. Only one kicker in the history of the CFL has made a kick from beyond the 60 and that kick was made out doors.

4. Because in the history of the CFL no kicker has ever made a field goal from 61 indoors.

5. Because According to Bauming Medlock said his limit was 57.

6. Because even Troy Westwood could make a 60 yarder in practice. Kicking in practice is obviously much different than kicking in the game.

7. Because he still had time left on the clock.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Dascow

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

How far do Medlock's kick offs go?

[Dee Urban Hermit]

5 hours ago, Dascow said:

People are acting like the 3 out of 12 on 3rd down stat and the claim that Medlock made that he could probably hit 1 of 3 are equal. They are not.

No they are not. 3 out of 12 is a 25% chance versus a 1 out of 3, a 33% chance. You are the coach, you have 10 seconds. what do you want to do?...

[Dascow]

7 hours ago, Dee Urban Hermit said:

No they are not. 3 out of 12 is a 25% chance versus a 1 out of 3, a 33% chance. You are the coach, you have 10 seconds. what do you want to do?...

I think you've completely missed my point.

[M.O.A.B.]

If a punt splits the upright... will it count as field goal ? or it will only count 1 ?

Just asking 

Edited November 16, 2016 by M.O.A.B.

[HardCoreBlue]

10 hours ago, Dee Urban Hermit said:

No they are not. 3 out of 12 is a 25% chance versus a 1 out of 3, a 33% chance. You are the coach, you have 10 seconds. what do you want to do?...

We had more than 10 seconds.

Go and get the first down. Next play, run the ball to the centre hashmarks. Third play, kick the field goal for the win. Fourth play, celebrate. Fifth play, prepare for the Stamps.

[Guest J5V]

15 hours ago, Dee Urban Hermit said:

No they are not. 3 out of 12 is a 25% chance versus a 1 out of 3, a 33% chance. You are the coach, you have 10 seconds. what do you want to do?...

 

5 hours ago, HardCoreBlue said:

We had more than 10 seconds.

Go and get the first down. Next play, run the ball to the centre hashmarks. Third play, kick the field goal for the win. Fourth play, celebrate. Fifth play, prepare for the Stamps.

Exactly how I had envisioned playing out the last 36 seconds.

7 hours ago, Dascow said:

I think you've completely missed my point.

The love here for Mike O'Shea is like going to the casino and watching the gamblers. There isn't much point arguing with the slot machine people about the odds playing blackjack. They love their machine and will keep pumping money into it hoping for a win no matter what.