US Politics

[The Unknown Poster]

17 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/01/11/russia-denies-having-compromising-materials-trump/96434896/

Russia is denying they have compromising info on Trump.  I assume whether you believe this or not is based on your political views.  I do note that these reports are still unverified.  If verified, then for sure I will believe them.  But until then, even a lot of Trump enemies are saying that there is no point talking about this.

Oh Russia says they dont compile info on their opposition?  Well I believe them.  lol

[Rich]

I really don't know if these reports are true or not.  I posted links to the articles because Twitter and the internet were abuzz with them.

The thing that I find most disappointing when I heard these rumours, is that I wouldn't be surprised if they were true and I wouldn't be surprised if they were false.  I give it 50 / 50 that it actually happened.  And that feeling of mine is 100% based on the actions and words of Trump  that have led up to this point in time.  

It is disappointing to me that I find it plausible and unsurprising if the next President of the United States of America actually did these things.

[The Unknown Poster]

14 minutes ago, Rich said:

I really don't know if these reports are true or not.  I posted links to the articles because Twitter and the internet were abuzz with them.

The thing that I find most disappointing when I heard these rumours, is that I wouldn't be surprised if they were true and I wouldn't be surprised if they were false.  I give it 50 / 50 that it actually happened.  And that feeling of mine is 100% based on the actions and words of Trump  that have led up to this point in time.  

It is disappointing to me that I find it plausible and unsurprising if the next President of the United States of America actually did these things.

I think it would be weird if someone didnt find this plausible.  The intelligence game isnt going to always hit a homerun, but you've got various agencies reporting pretty disturbing things about Russia's efforts to hack.  You've got Trump's own words of being closely tied to Russia and his sudden reversal.  You've got Trump's own words of basically being a womanizer.  His son revealed their immense ties to Russia.  And you've got the awkward denials, from Trump and Russia. 

Clearly something is going on here.  Does it mean Trump has been compromised?  No.  But he seems more angry that the intelligence briefing was leaked then that it exists.  His claims to have zero ties to Russia are a lie.  So who's he trying to kid?  What is he hiding?
 

Knowing his ego, if there are tapes of him engaging in wild sex parties, you have to wonder what Russia could get him to do to avoid that release. 

What is more troubling than Trump's sex games is the speculation he was intimately involved in assisting or otherwise working with Russia on hacking the Democrats.  You're bordering on treason in that respect.

Trump hasnt even served a day as President and he's looking like a complete disaster.  Let's hope the people around him are smart enough to drag him through an acceptable term.

[kelownabomberfan]

14 hours ago, Rich said:

 

 

 

Sorry, can't get the box above to go away.

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/trump-russia-buzzfeed-accuses-disgusting-sex-acts-one-problem/

Looks like it was a completely fake news story created on 4Chan, and the fake news guys at Buzzfeed picked up on it and reported it.  I am really disappointed in CNN and the New York Times for even mentioning this story before any verification could be done.

[kelownabomberfan]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

Clearly something is going on here.  Does it mean Trump has been compromised?  No.  But he seems more angry that the intelligence briefing was leaked then that it exists.

 

Well we now know that nothing is going on here.  And wouldn't you be angry if the New York Times and CNN reported that you engaged in pee-parties with prostitutes in Russia when you knew these stories were completely fabricated by some guy on 4Chan?  I sure would be.  And apparently there is no presidential suite at the Ritz in Moscow, which the NYT should have fact-checked.

[The Unknown Poster]

12 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Well we now know that nothing is going on here.  And wouldn't you be angry if the New York Times and CNN reported that you engaged in pee-parties with prostitutes in Russia when you knew these stories were completely fabricated by some guy on 4Chan?  I sure would be.  And apparently there is no presidential suite at the Ritz in Moscow, which the NYT should have fact-checked.

Wait, are you saying that the pee-party being untrue means there is nothing going on?   You mean the briefing by intelligence agencies with Trump and the Gang of Eight never happened? 

Edited January 11, 2017 by The Unknown Poster

[sweep the leg]

13 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Sorry, can't get the box above to go away.

http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/trump-russia-buzzfeed-accuses-disgusting-sex-acts-one-problem/

Looks like it was a completely fake news story created on 4Chan, and the fake news guys at Buzzfeed picked up on it and reported it.  I am really disappointed in CNN and the New York Times for even mentioning this story before any verification could be done.

So you're citing Charles Johnson, one of the people pushing pizzagate, to verify the accuracy of this story? That's only slightly better than when you cited Alex Jones' website. You're in to some weird ****...

[kelownabomberfan]

1 minute ago, sweep the leg said:

So you're citing Charles Johnson, one of the people pushing pizzagate, to verify the accuracy of this story? That's only slightly better than when you cited Alex Jones' website. You're in to some weird ****...

LOL - I knew my MBB conscience would chime in here.  Though I thought we were keeping this personal commentary about my posting to inboxes, I am glad that you decided to personally attack me again on this, though I don't know what you mean by "weird ****".  I had no idea what "fake news" was until a few months ago.  Like Rich, I find it all very confusing.  I didn't know Buzzfeed and Infowars were fake news sites.  I did know that Fox and CNN are slanted to varying political views.  It is extremely important in this era we find ourselves in not to jump to aspersions about people, even if we have extremely negative views of them.  I saw a lot of fake news about Harper being generated in the last election too, and now I am even seeing stuff about Trudeau.  It is difficult to wade through the nonsense, and I just saw Jake Tapper of CNN personally rip Buzzfeed a new one on live TV, so that was refreshing.

[sweep the leg]

45 minutes ago, Rich said:

I really don't know if these reports are true or not.  I posted links to the articles because Twitter and the internet were abuzz with them.

The thing that I find most disappointing when I heard these rumours, is that I wouldn't be surprised if they were true and I wouldn't be surprised if they were false.  I give it 50 / 50 that it actually happened.  And that feeling of mine is 100% based on the actions and words of Trump  that have led up to this point in time.  

It is disappointing to me that I find it plausible and unsurprising if the next President of the United States of America actually did these things.

Exactly. He and his team are such a trainwreck that you could tell me almost anything about him and it would be hard to dismiss it out of hand. It wasn't very responsible journalism to release this info without being able to verify it, but a lot of it seems pretty believable. 

[kelownabomberfan]

9 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Wait, are you saying that the pee-party being untrue means there is nothing going on?   You mean the briefing by intelligence agencies with Trump and the Gang of Eight never happened? 

I honestly don't know what you are talking about.  Is Trump not supposed to be given intelligence agency briefings?

[The Unknown Poster]

Regardless of the specifics, there is clearly something going on.  Sure, people are denying the golden shower story but in such a way that it could read as "yes we nailed hookers but watched them pee on each other?  Thats #fakenews.  I pee'ed on THEM".  Cohen claiming its untrue because he never met a Russian in Brussels (or wherever) could just as easily be the right meeting but wrong location.  That's the problem with stuff like that.

But US intelligence believes these stories have enough veracity to prepare a serious briefing with a summation of the supposed acts that Russia has that might compromise Trump.  The question as to why they'd provide that info to the Gang of Eight rather then just Trump and Obama?  People want to say 'so it would leak'.  isnt it just as likely its so Trump cant bury it?  Could the intelligence people be so concerned, they believe this requires congressional involvement?

Trump now backing away from Russia and admitting they did hack.  So they didnt hack but now they did.  What's to stop the eventual story being "well they have nothing on me" becoming "okay, they got me". 

[The Unknown Poster]

Just now, kelownabomberfan said:

I honestly don't know what you are talking about.  Is Trump not supposed to be given intelligence agency briefings?

Did I misunderstand?  You seem to be saying there is nothing to this because one or two of the specifics is being reported wrongly.

[kelownabomberfan]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

Did I misunderstand?  You seem to be saying there is nothing to this because one or two of the specifics is being reported wrongly.

Maybe I am misunderstanding.  I honestly don't know what you are talking about.  What gang of Eight?  What is it that you think is "going on" exactly?

[sweep the leg]

 

2 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

LOL - I knew my MBB conscience would chime in here.  Though I thought we were keeping this personal commentary about my posting to inboxes, I am glad that you decided to personally attack me again on this, though I don't know what you mean by "weird ****".  I had no idea what "fake news" was until a few months ago.  Like Rich, I find it all very confusing.  I didn't know Buzzfeed and Infowars were fake news sites. 

Oh the drama! There were no personal attacks. I was insulting what you consider credible news sources. Although I suppose Hillary Clinton really could be hiding a pedophile ring under a pizza restaurant.

[kelownabomberfan]

1 minute ago, sweep the leg said:

 

Oh the drama! There were no personal attacks.

If you have a problem with my sources or how I post, why don't we just talk about it via inbox?  It sure would save everyone else having to read about our personal squabbles.

[sweep the leg]

Just now, kelownabomberfan said:

If you have a problem with my sources or how I post, why don't we just talk about it via inbox?  It sure would save everyone else having to read about our personal squabbles.

Because on the topic of fake news, if a person like Alex Jones of Charles Johnson is being cited, I think it's important to give context as to what kind of people they are, and reference other "news" that they have broke.

If you post something on a message board, it's open for discussion. It would be different if you pm'd me a link.

[HardCoreBlue]

16 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

LOL - I knew my MBB conscience would chime in here.  Though I thought we were keeping this personal commentary about my posting to inboxes, I am glad that you decided to personally attack me again on this, though I don't know what you mean by "weird ****".  I had no idea what "fake news" was until a few months ago.  Like Rich, I find it all very confusing.  I didn't know Buzzfeed and Infowars were fake news sites.  I did know that Fox and CNN are slanted to varying political views.  It is extremely important in this era we find ourselves in not to jump to aspersions about people, even if we have extremely negative views of them.  I saw a lot of fake news about Harper being generated in the last election too, and now I am even seeing stuff about Trudeau.  It is difficult to wade through the nonsense, and I just saw Jake Tapper of CNN personally rip Buzzfeed a new one on live TV, so that was refreshing.

It's always been important to do this regardless of era. If one of us is on the wrong end of unjust judgment, we sure do appreciate this approach.

Absolutely this era has provided more complexities in trying to have an informed perspective on others.

Having bias's, assumptions and opinions on others is human nature, testing them on a regular basis is a whole different ball of wax. To ensure they are close to factual takes some work on the judge's end. Each of us have varying levels of ability, commitment and energy to do so. One things for sure, no one's perfect but some are better than others in how we talk about others factually.

  

[kelownabomberfan]

7 minutes ago, sweep the leg said:

Because on the topic of fake news, if a person like Alex Jones of Charles Johnson is being cited, I think it's important to give context as to what kind of people they are, and reference other "news" that they have broke.

If you post something on a message board, it's open for discussion. It would be different if you pm'd me a link.

I guess  I'm not following.  You don't have a problem with Buzzfeed posting a fake story, but you do have a problem with me posting the story about 4Chan?  I honestly don't know who Charles Johnson is.  Is he a fake news guy too?  It's getting pretty confusing.  So are you saying that the pee-story is true?  I guess I don't follow why you are making a big deal about it, as I don't know or didn't know who Charles Johnson is.  I just read the story about 4Chan and it seems like others are now corroborating the story that it was all fabricated, just like my link said.  Anyway, I don't want to waste any more time on this part of the discussion, as it's already a dead story.

As for Unknown - I am interested in this Gang of Eight thing you keep referencing.  Do you have a link that I could read about?

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by kelownabomberfan

[The Unknown Poster]

26 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

Maybe I am misunderstanding.  I honestly don't know what you are talking about.  What gang of Eight?  What is it that you think is "going on" exactly?

I believe you posted a response of something like "there is nothing going on" as a result of a fake news article that purported to detail the specifics ofa summary included with an Intelligence briefing provided to the President, Preside-Elect and Gang of Eight (the leaders of the Congressional Intelligence).  Your response seemed to me to me saying "there is clearly something going on here".

But one specific story being wrong doesn't mean the underlaying report is wrong.  In fact, spreading wild untrue stories would be one strategy to trying to paint the whole report with the #fakenews colour.  The intelligence leaders seem far more concerned about this than to assume its all made up.

And the denials ring hollow in such a way as to confirm there is something.  Now you have Trump admitting Russia hacked the democrats during the election.  Why would he suddenly do that in the wake of these reports of him being compromised?  To arms-length him from Russia a bit?  His claims that Russia could never have anything on him because he has zero ties contradicts his own previous admissions and those of his son.

So while its possible Trump is telling the truth that he has not been compromised, he has lied and continues to lie about Russia.  Why?  He continues to dismiss and belittle his own intelligence community.  Why?  Could it be he's very afraid of what might be out there?

[kelownabomberfan]

2 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

I believe you posted a response of something like "there is nothing going on" as a result of a fake news article that purported to detail the specifics ofa summary included with an Intelligence briefing provided to the President, Preside-Elect and Gang of Eight (the leaders of the Congressional Intelligence).  Your response seemed to me to me saying "there is clearly something going on here".

But one specific story being wrong doesn't mean the underlaying report is wrong.  In fact, spreading wild untrue stories would be one strategy to trying to paint the whole report with the #fakenews colour.  The intelligence leaders seem far more concerned about this than to assume its all made up.

And the denials ring hollow in such a way as to confirm there is something.  Now you have Trump admitting Russia hacked the democrats during the election.  Why would he suddenly do that in the wake of these reports of him being compromised?  To arms-length him from Russia a bit?  His claims that Russia could never have anything on him because he has zero ties contradicts his own previous admissions and those of his son.

So while its possible Trump is telling the truth that he has not been compromised, he has lied and continues to lie about Russia.  Why?  He continues to dismiss and belittle his own intelligence community.  Why?  Could it be he's very afraid of what might be out there?

OK - so do you have a link to a story about this?  I am curious.

[sweep the leg]

7 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I guess  I'm not following.  You don't have a problem with Buzzfeed posting a fake story, but you do have a problem with me posting the story about 4Chan?  I honestly don't know who Charles Johnson is.  Is he a fake news guy too?  It's getting pretty confusing.  So are you saying that the pee-story is true?  I guess I don't follow why you are making a big deal about it, as I don't know or didn't know who Charles Johnson is.  I just read the story about 4Chan and it seems like others are now corroborating the story that it was all fabricated, just like my link said.  Anyway, I don't want to waste any more time on this part of the discussion, as it's already a dead story.

 

 

Well that's part of the problem then, if you're citing people but don't know who they are. He's prominent in the link you posted.

The buzzfeed/CNN story is uncorroborated, not necessarily completely fake. Still poor journalism, but not the same thing.

[sweep the leg]

5 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

 

But one specific story being wrong doesn't mean the underlaying report is wrong.  In fact, spreading wild untrue stories would be one strategy to trying to paint the whole report with the #fakenews colour.  The intelligence leaders seem far more concerned about this than to assume its all made up.

 

Exactly.

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, kelownabomberfan said:

OK - so do you have a link to a story about this?  I am curious.

You mean the stories all over the internet and every news site in the free world?

Here is one on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-report-russia/

CNN has the same "memos" has Buzzfeed but is not printing the details because the actual stories are not varified.  But if these are the legitimate summaries the intelligence leaders have presented to Trump and the Gang of Eight, are they not serious? 

I mean, if the CIA shows Trump a report of 20 things they claim Russia has on him and he says "Well that ONE isnt true." that doesnt make me feel much better. 

[The Unknown Poster]

1 minute ago, sweep the leg said:

Exactly.

And again, its like being caught cheating and your wife says "I was told you slept with my best friend on my birthday" but you know it was the day before her birthday so you say "That statement is absolutely false". 

Because the fact is, Trump has, since last year completely changed his tune on Russia and lied about his connection.  Would that seem to jive with the idea that he or his top aids were conspiring with Russian hackers and/or he was potentially compromised.  If some guy I knew found out I cheated on my wife, I'd preemptively distance myself from him in hopes of claiming he doesnt even know me, should the truth ever come out.

[johnzo]

The thing that is frustrating about all this Trump-centred discussion ... is that while the Trump circus is putting up its tents, no one is noticing that across town, Paul Ryan is pouring gasoline in hospital basements.

The guy intends to privatize Medicare and Social Security and repeal the ACA.  He's terrifying lots of Americans who depend on government services.

As scary as Trump is, I'm more worried about what's going to come out of Congress.  At least Trump has a patina of independence to him that might lead him to object when Congress takes away the health insurance of millions.

Edited January 11, 2017 by johnzo