US Politics

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I was stuck for five hours a few years ago trying to get through the Houston airport.  I just chalked it up to incompetence of the US Customs people but I should have blamed Obama I guess.  

How in the world is being Detained and aggressively interrogated the same as stuck in an airport due to being understaffed?  Seriously how are these two things even remotely THE SAME thing? I am curious- could you explain this to me?

Edited February 27, 2017 by wanna-b-fanboy

[kelownabomberfan]

Just now, wanna-b-fanboy said:

How in the world is being Detained and aggressively interrogated the same as stuck in an airport due to being understaffed?  Seriously how are these two things even remotely THE SAME thing? I am curious- could you explain this to me?

oh good grief.  Do you have any proof whatsoever that this guy was "aggressively interrogated", and if so, that somehow this is Trump's fault?  Was no one ever interrogated by anybody entering the US before Trump was elected?  With all of the freak-outs over the past few months that have turned out to be pure nonsense, until I hear otherwise I will just regard this as more #fake news.

[Jacquie]

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

was this guy "aggressively interrogated"?  With all of the fake news now pouring out of the orifices of both the alt left and alt right I don't know what to believe anymore.

I wasn't aggressively interrogated, it just took five hours to get through Customs because they didn't have enough staff and it took forever to get through.  I was lucky I had a long layover or I would have missed my flight.

When Mr. Rousso said he was "detained", "arrested" and "about to be deported" that didn't clue you in to the fact his experience had nothing to do with there not being enough staff.

And are you suggesting a well respected French historian and the university (Texas A&M) who had invited him to the US would lie that he was detained and almost deported? Otherwise please explain how the man's tweets could be construed as "fake news".

[kelownabomberfan]

Just now, Jacquie said:

When Mr. Rousso said he was "detained", "arrested" and "about to be deported" that didn't clue you in to the fact his experience had nothing to do with there not being enough staff.

And are you suggesting a well respected French historian and the university (Texas A&M) who had invited him to the US would lie that he was detained and almost deported? Otherwise please explain how the man's tweets could be construed as "fake news".

please explain why anyone should care.  That's what I'm still strugging with here.  I assume this is some sort of Anti-Trump thing, but I don't know why this matters.  Did he get through?  Great!  

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

2 hours ago, kelownabomberfan said:

oh good grief.  Do you have any proof whatsoever that this guy was "aggressively interrogated", and if so, that somehow this is Trump's fault?  Was no one ever interrogated by anybody entering the US before Trump was elected?  With all of the freak-outs over the past few months that have turned out to be pure nonsense, until I hear otherwise I will just regard this as more #fake news.

Proof? like what? an interview with her saying: 

Quote

“I have never in my life been spoken to with such insolence, treated with such disdain, with so many insults and with so much gratuitous impoliteness,” Fox said.

“I felt like I had been physically assaulted which is why, when I got to my hotel room, I completely collapsed and sobbed like a baby, and I’m 70 years old.”

The author attributed the aggressive questioning to border police who had been “turbocharged” by Donald Trump’s proposed travel ban.

Fox said she was questioned over her visa, despite having travelled to America 116 times before without incident. She was eventually granted access to the country.

Sure, if you want to dismiss her as a liar- fake news indeed. Also, the fact she travelled to the US 166 times without incident and then boom, post trumptravelban, this happens. This hyper-CBP **** is totally Trumps fault. She did receive an apology from US officials, so less inclined to just outright dismiss it.

Quote

After lodging a complaint over her treatment with the Australian embassy in Washington and the US embassy in Canberra, Fox received an emailed apology from US officials.

As for your statement "With all of the freak-outs over the past few months that have turned out to be pure nonsense" I am curious to which incidents you are referring to. 

 

1 hour ago, kelownabomberfan said:

please explain why anyone should care.  That's what I'm still strugging with here.  I assume this is some sort of Anti-Trump thing, but I don't know why this matters.  Did he get through?  Great!  

No matter how I explain it, you wouldn't understand. You don't get it. It's not something you can grasp, it's not something that you would ever agree with. It doesn't mesh with your political views, at all. You buy in to the #fakenews rhetoric 100%. I understand that, it happens to me too- I get where you are coming from.  It would be akin to trying to explain why Vince Young is a poor choice to have on your neg list to a Rider fan... 

[kelownabomberfan]

2 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

 

No matter how I explain it, you wouldn't understand. You don't get it. It's not something you can grasp, it's not something that you would ever agree with. It doesn't mesh with your political views, at all. You buy in to the #fakenews rhetoric 100%. I understand that, it happens to me too- I get where you are coming from. 

Glad we could see eye to eye on something for a change.  I could take everything above and just re-type it, and you'd have my opinion of you.  So there we go.  We are diametrically opposed, but neither is right or wrong.  We just have different views.  I can live with that.

[The Unknown Poster]

Trump has now made people wistful for the glorious days of W

 

[johnzo]

Latest WaPo leak: Atty General Sessions had contacts with Russian ambassador during the Trump campaign.  (Sessions was a surrogate and insider on that campaign.)

This complicates things because under normal circumstances, Sessions' FBI is the bunch that would investigate all the Russia stuff.

I would like to learn soon whether this is just spooks ******* with an idiot boss or whether we're gonna get into some real hot scandal action.  You know the House really really really really doesn't want to investigate their president.  Which is probably just as well, considering how useless their repeated investigations of HRC were.

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

12 minutes ago, johnzo said:

Latest WaPo leak: Atty General Sessions had contacts with Russian ambassador during the Trump campaign.  (Sessions was a surrogate and insider on that campaign.)

This complicates things because under normal circumstances, Sessions' FBI is the bunch that would investigate all the Russia stuff.

I would like to learn soon whether this is just spooks ******* with an idiot boss or whether we're gonna get into some real hot scandal action.  You know the House really really really really doesn't want to investigate their president.  Which is probably just as well, considering how useless their repeated investigations of HRC were.

I don't think any of that matters- he had a drama free state of the union address.

[The Unknown Poster]

Yeah this Russian stuff is getting ridiculous. They need a special prosecutor and a full investigation. But they will fight it because they are hiding something. Bigly 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/01/politics/jeff-sessions-russian-ambassador-meetings/index.html

[johnzo]

48 minutes ago, wanna-b-fanboy said:

I don't think any of that matters- he had a drama free state of the union address.

I suspect the latest leak is gonna blow the "oh but he so presidential!!1" story away, and I suspect it was timed just so it would do that.

Edited March 2, 2017 by johnzo

[Jacquie]

 

 

[johnzo]

Sessions' story is migrating all over the place -- first he didn't meet with the Russians, and then maybe he did, but he didn't remember, and  then, yes he did, as an armed services committee member.  At first, he didn't remember what he and the Russian ambassador talked about, then he remembered it was only superficial things.  First they talked on the phone, then they met at his Senate office.

C'mon people. At least get your story straight before you take it public.  "Random and evasive" is not the look of innocence.

Edited March 2, 2017 by johnzo

[The Unknown Poster]

Yes one narrative Ive seen is "its not lying if he legitimately didnt remember".

[kelownabomberfan]

10 hours ago, johnzo said:

I suspect the latest leak is gonna blow the "oh but he so presidential!!1" story away, and I suspect it was timed just so it would do that.

so you are saying that the media planned to drop this story whenever it looked like people might be getting over some of their anger and thinking about accepting Trump? 

I am still trying to understand what the issue here is, as I have from the beginning with this Russian stuff.  I don't get what meeting with Russians has to do with anything.  I realize that the Democrats are trying really hard to avoid taking any blame for their terrible election performance, but the Russians being the cause of them losing seems like weak sauce to me.

[The Unknown Poster]

You're right.  Nothing to see here.  Russians hacking emails and releasing the information strategically to harm the Dems, possibly with the collusion of the Trump campaign is no big deal.

Trump lying about his business and relationships in Russia is certainly nothing to be concerned about.

Edited March 2, 2017 by The Unknown Poster

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

16 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I am still trying to understand what the issue here is, as I have from the beginning with this Russian stuff.  I don't get what meeting with Russians has to do with anything.  I realize that the Democrats are trying really hard to avoid taking any blame for their terrible election performance, but the Russians being the cause of them losing seems like weak sauce to me.

So you don't understand what Gen. Flynn did was illegal? 

[bigg jay]

Some of the Russia/Trump contact also may have been illegal (one of the reasons why they got rid of Flynn). 

Quote

On December 29, 2016, retired lieutenant general Michael T. Flynn, President-elect Trump's pick for national security adviser, spoke with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak, the exact same day the Obama administration announced retaliatory measures in response to Russia's interference in the 2016 presidential campaign.^[20] At the time, Acting US Attorney General Sally Yates, along with senior national security officials suspected that Flynn might have violated the Logan Act with those conversations.^[21] On February 13, 2017, Flynn resigned from the position of National Security Advisor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act

[kelownabomberfan]

19 minutes ago, The Unknown Poster said:

You're right.  Nothing to see here.  Russians hacking emails and releasing the information strategically to harm the Dems, possibly with the collusion of the Trump campaign is no big deal.

Trump lying about his business and relationships in Russia is certainly nothing to be concerned about.

I guess my question is - is anything you've written above actually true? 

[Wanna-B-Fanboy]

3 minutes ago, kelownabomberfan said:

I guess my question is - is anything you've written above actually true? 

How does one respond to this?

...

...

...

.........

You're a big boy- you can do your own research and draw your own conclusions. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by wanna-b-fanboy

[johnzo]

The issue isn't whether Russian interference changed the outcome of the election. No one can assert that.

The issue is that there is evidence mounting that the Trump campaign conspired to receive aid from the Russian government during the election, and that the Trump government may be compromised in its dealings with Russia due to that.

I am not a political science major, so correct me on this, but I do believe that most governments have laws discouraging their leaders from being personally indebted to foreign powers.

Note that there's enough fire to the Sessions story for Republican leaders to be calling for Sessions to recuse himself from further investigation.  Jason Chaffetz, the chair of the House Oversight committee and a member of the Justice committee .. he's the guy who ringmastered the eight fruitless Benghazi investigations, so you know he's a pretty devout Republican ... he is telling Sessions to step aside.  If all the Russia stuff is a big nothingburger then why are GOPers admonishing their own?

Edited March 2, 2017 by johnzo

[do or die]

Started looking, a while back at this Russian business.   Interesting cast of characters, alright.....

 

General Michael Flynn

Acknowledged Russia-phobe, who was paid to attend the RT (Russian Today) 10th anniversary gala in December 2015.   RT is directly controlled and funded by the Kremlin, used as a propaganda tool - whitewashing both domestic oppression and military aggression by the Russian state.  

Flynn was forced to resign, after FBI investigations into his conversations with the Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak , who both current and former US intelligence officials have described as a top spy and recruiter of spies, led to a official Justice Department warning to the White House about the possibility of Flynn being compromised or ever the target of Russian blackmail.   The Trump administration maintained that Flynn - who as NSA is one of the few people with unfettered access to the President 24/7  .......acted alone in some kind of "rogue" fashion.   We now know that Trump and other officials were briefed on the Justice Dept. warning, 3 weeks before Flynn left.

Paul Manifort

Trump campaign manager, with extensive lobbying history overseas, particularly in the Ukraine, where he represented pro-Russian interests.  Manifort   resigned, while being investigated by the National Security Agency   Some of his contacts there were under surveillance by the NSA for suspected links to Russia’s Federal Security Service.

Carter Page

Ex-foreign policy adviser to Trump, who was scrutinized by the FBI  for private communications with senior Russian officials over the summer  Page was previously an advisor on several major transactions.  Mr. Page’s extensive business links in Russia prompted suggestions that he might be serving Mr. Trump as a back channel liaison, with senior Kremlin officials.

Page also made a speech that criticized the United States and other Western nations for a “hypocritical focus on ideas such as democratization, inequality, corruption and regime change” in Russia and in other parts of the former Soviet Union.

Richard Burt

 Ex-US ambassador to Germany, was drafting a Trump foreign policy speech in April, while earning hundreds of thousands of dollars lobbying for a Russian- backed gas pipeline that would extend Putin’s leverage over Europe. Burt advises the owners of Russia’s Alfa Group, one of Russia's largest privately owned investment groups,w who have close Kremlin ties.

President Donald Trump

Built extensive financial links to Russia. After a number of bankruptcies, Trump’s empire was facing collapse and North American banks were refusing him credit. Luckily for him, several institutions with Russian connections stepped in to help bail him out. (through a particularly shady German bank) Has a close relationship to Bayrock, a real estate development company backed with Russian money and linked to bribery, racketeering, money laundering, and the Russian mob.

Donald has publicly praised Putin and defended his policies, including downplaying the bombing campaign in Syria and the invasion of Ukraine.  Once nominated, the only change Trump made to the Republican Party platform was to remove a promise to support Ukraine against Russia. He has continually attacked American allies like Germany and the EU, and of course, criticized NATO as “obsolete.” 

More stuff on the Russian linkages, from the Financial Times

https://ig.ft.com/sites/trumps-russian-connections/

 

It may not stink....but it sure smells.

 

[JCon]

The question Sessions was asked was: Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?

To which he answered: No.

So  far, I have not seen any evidence to the contrary.

The optics are terrible but I'm not sure they could prove he lied in his confirmation hearings.

[johnzo]

There were a couple exchanges re: Russia during Sessions' confirmation hearings.

FRANKEN: If there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?

SESSIONS: Senator Franken, I’m not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it.

Note how Sessions doesn't even answer Franken's question, he just straight-out jumps into a denial that he personally had communications with the Russians. There's some bad optics!

Edited March 2, 2017 by johnzo

[JCon]

1 minute ago, johnzo said:

There were a couple exchanges re: Russia during Sessions' confirmation hearings.

FRANKEN: If there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?

SESSIONS: Senator Franken, I’m not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it.

Note how Sessions doesn't even answer Franken's question, he just straight-out jumps into a denial that he personally had communications with the Russians. There's some bad optics!

Bad optics, for sure, just not illegal. (Until we see contradictory evidence)